Did tonight's GRRM-written episode confirm......

[Leagon]

I think we shouldn't read too much into what the show says about the books.

Every author reaches points in the story when, rather than being able to follow a logical progression of events, they have to choose between any number of equally valid events happening. George may've chosen path #2 in the books and has decided to do path #4 in the series. Maybe Talisa gets pregnant, survives the Red Wedding, but is killed later in an escape attempt.

It's possibly an alternate history altogether. Maybe Theon has his little kraken in the books, but it's being bolted in the show.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I don't think that anything that happens in the show confirms or disproves anything that happens in the books. The two have obviously been taking their separate paths for some time now.

This is true, but in broad strokes, I think it's worth looking at the show to get an idea of where the books might be going. Talisa is a good example of this — she bears very little resemblance to Jeyne, yet serves the same general function. As such, whatever happens to her is inevitably going to be used to inform ideas about Jeyne — whether it ends up being true in the books or not.

It's possibly an alternate history altogether. Maybe Theon has his little kraken in the books, but it's being bolted in the show.

Eh. That's one of those things I just see as a confirmation of what a lot of people had already guessed. Mainly because there's not really any good reason to castrate Theon in one medium but not another.

[Ribupr]

Haha I felt I should post this...

A friend of mine just called me to say she finished the episode. She has not read the books, nor been on any sites, and she is already sensing Dany is not heading down the protagonist road.

...and I thought her opinion was interesting considering.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Haha I felt I should post this...

A friend of mine just called me to say she finished the episode. She has not read the books, nor been on any sites, and she is already sensing Dany is not heading down the protagonist road.

...and I thought her opinion was interesting considering.

:) Im very curious as to one of my show-only friends has to say about Dany here. He thought the dracarys moment was awesome but predicted that Dany wouldnt do much more in the way of epicness. While i dont find her scene "epic", it is illuminating, so im wondering how he feels about it.

[Ser Creighton]

Dany in the show makes an even worse decision than Dany in the books. Show Yunkai offered her a gigantic fleet. I get the whole Abolition March, but that's an offer you can't refuse.

Yeah totally free 200,000 slaves or take a bribe. Can't believe she decided to free slaves, why do what is right when you can get money and ships?

[Jabronius Maximus]

Yeah she gets the full Westerosi title (Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms), plus Mother of Dragons, Breaker of Chains, Queen of Meereen, Princess of Dragonstone yada yada yada STFU.

I must say I'm heartened that non-readers are starting to get over her.

Oh haha it was the full meal deal then. Still, the majority of my non-reader friends side with Dany. And to that I paraphrase Ygritte, they know nothing yet.

And whoah I totally missed the pregnant Talisa scene. I thnk we'll have to wait and see if she survives the RW for the pregnant Jeyne theory to really gain steam.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Haha I felt I should post this...

A friend of mine just called me to say she finished the episode. She has not read the books, nor been on any sites, and she is already sensing Dany is not heading down the protagonist road.

...and I thought her opinion was interesting considering.

That is interesting. A few of us, heh, Harpies were chatting about the episode and a few of us noted that we got a definite whiff of nutter off of her. Florina, in particular, is pretty firmly — and I think correctly — arguing that GRRM intended some heavy-duty foreshadowing here. I think some of it has to do with being spared the worst parts of the cities and what they do. This, it's just a guy trying to keep his city from getting sacked, someone who hasn't done a thing to her, offering her a very good deal, something she's allegedly wanted since the beginning, and she turns him down, threatens to kill him and keeps his gold. Even if you're on board with the whole abolition thing — which I think the episode shows is as much about ego and army-building as it is about genuine sympathy for slaves — the exchange is troubling.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Oh haha it was the full meal deal then. Still, the majority of my non-reader friends side with Dany. To paraphrase Ygritte, they know nothing yet.

Oh I can't remember if she gets the full deal in the show, I kind of zoned out, but if they ever do the full title it'll take half an hour. :P

And whoah I totally missed the pregnant Talisa scene. I thnk we'll have to wait and see if she survives the RW for the pregnant Jeyne theory to really gain steam.

Agreed. I'm withholding judgment.

[Ribupr]

:) Im very curious as to one of my show-only friends has to say about Dany here. He thought the dracarys moment was awesome but predicted that Dany wouldnt do much more in the way of epicness. While i dont find her scene "epic", it is illuminating, so im wondering how he feels about it.

Mine had the same thoughts. Except she said that she didn't like how Dany was telling that other city how to live, especially when its not even Westeros. Also, she didn't like how Dany went back on her word with the Unsullied people, even though it was obvious that would happen. She also noted he cockiness and arrogance in the past 2 seasons.

That is interesting. A few of us, heh, Harpies were chatting about the episode and a few of us noted that we got a definite whiff of nutter off of her. Florina, in particular, is pretty firmly — and I think correctly — arguing that GRRM intended some heavy-duty foreshadowing here. I think some of it has to do with being spared the worst parts of the cities and what they do. This, it's just a guy trying to keep his city from getting sacked, someone who hasn't done a thing to her, offering her a very good deal, something she's allegedly wanted since the beginning, and she turns him down, threatens to kill him and keeps his gold. Even if you're on board with the whole abolition thing — which I think the episode shows is as much about ego and army-building as it is about genuine sympathy for slaves — the exchange is troubling.

When I told her GRRM wrote this episode, she picked up on the "mad" line directed at Dany, and the correlation to the Mad King.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Yeah totally free 200,000 slaves or take a bribe. Can't believe she decided to free slaves, why do what is right when you can get money and ships?

And why do what's being offered in exchange for gold when you can just steal the gold and threaten to incinerate anyone who tries to stop you? Heroism!

[Ser Creighton]

One of my friends literally went, 'holy shit get on with the episode already' when her titles were being recited. I'm interested to see her reaction when/if more titles are added (books are a pretty distant memory right now, I don't know if she had more titles than that).

I have to wonder if GRRM deliberately had them all recited in that slow manner just to take a jab at book readers. If so it definitely worked...

I don't know over on the show side of the forum Dany is getting major play. Yeah her titles did take almost 9 seconds. 9 whole seconds, that's almost 10 seconds out of the 3600 seconds of the show. It must have been those 9 1/2 seconds that slowed everything down. Not 6 more minutes of pointless Theon material which most people are complaining about. And the Bear pit, people seem to be hating on the bear pit, which was pretty brutal. Before and after the Pitt was all good but the pit itself seemed pretty bad.

[Mladen]

The only thing tonight`s episode confirmed to me that Sansa`s storyarc in the TV show is beyond reparation. Even GRRM couldn`t help it...

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I don't know over on the show side of the forum Dany is getting major play. Yeah her titles did take almost 9 seconds. 9 whole seconds, that's almost 10 seconds out of the 3600 seconds of the show. It must have been those 9 1/2 seconds that slowed everything down. Not 6 more minutes of pointless Theon material which most people are complaining about. And the Bear pit, people seem to be hating on the bear pit, which was pretty brutal. Before and after the Pitt was all good but the pit itself seemed pretty bad.

And my practice of ignoring the opinions of most show-only types is vindicated.

[not in the face]

I'm being very, very, very careful about the Talisa/Jeyne thing. There's a lot that could still happen.

But yeah it does seem that Theon losing his Greyjoy can now be taken to the bank, which fuels my belief that

he's going to be weirwood chow to resurrect Jon.

This, too.

I am curious as to why the Theon thing nails it for you?

[Grip]

I never really doubted that Theon was castrated, atleast I always interpreted it that way when reading.. The whole pregnancy thing though I am not so sure of..

[Ser Creighton]

And why do what's being offered in exchange for gold when you can just steal the gold and threaten to incinerate anyone who tries to stop you? Heroism!

Why do whats being offered? You mean why except the offer? Honestly I am okay with burning slavers, doesn't really bug me. I am okay with Heroism as well, doesn't really bug me. The gold was a gift though, but stealing gold from slavers and burning them, or just killing them, there is that as well. Yeah I am okay with it. She gave them a choice, let all the slaves go and I will not bother you. Actually let all the slaves go with as much as they can carry of anything they want and I will leave you alone. Totally cool with that. Not a big fan of slavers or slavery. I am just crazy like that.

[Targaryen_Rubies]

Some of the unsullied(TWoP) were wondering if hypocrisy would come into play with Dany over her abolition campaign as Jorah is her right hand man and he was exiled from westeros for slavery.

[Jabronius Maximus]

I don't know over on the show side of the forum Dany is getting major play. Yeah her titles did take almost 9 seconds. 9 whole seconds, that's almost 10 seconds out of the 3600 seconds of the show. It must have been those 9 1/2 seconds that slowed everything down. Not 6 more minutes of pointless Theon material which most people are complaining about. And the Bear pit, people seem to be hating on the bear pit, which was pretty brutal. Before and after the Pitt was all good but the pit itself seemed pretty bad.

But its 9 whole seconds! That would be enough time for Dany to possibly reconsider her stance!

I kid of course, but I'm just pointing out a friend's funny reaction. No need to get defensive here.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I am curious as to why the Theon thing nails it for you?

Because if he's lost that, he's a dynastic dead end. There's no future, nowhere else to go.

Why do whats being offered? You mean why except the offer? Honestly I am okay with burning slavers, doesn't really bug me. I am okay with Heroism as well, doesn't really bug me. The gold was a gift though, but stealing gold from slavers and burning them, or just killing them, there is that as well. Yeah I am okay with it. She gave them a choice, let all the slaves go and I will not bother you. Actually let all the slaves go with as much as they can carry of anything they want and I will leave you alone. Totally cool with that. Not a big fan of slavers or slavery. I am just crazy like that.

Actually I thought it was pretty obvious that the gold (and ships and everything else) was contingent upon her leaving, not something freely given until she stole it. I don't think you'll find anyone arguing that slavery is a good thing, but rather with the half-assed, short-sighted, sickeningly ego-stroking, smug, self-satisfied way she's carrying it out. But hey, if it makes you feel better to think that I only think Dany's a few fries short of a Happy Meal because I'm pro-slavery, knock yourself out.

[Ser Creighton]

The only thing tonight`s episode confirmed to me that Sansa`s storyarc in the TV show is beyond reparation. Even GRRM couldn`t help it...

What do you mean? I haven't really been bothered by Sansa and I thought Turners acting stepped up this year big time. She doesn't want to be forced to marry Tyrion. If she isn't attracted him and does not like Lannisters that is her business. I mean even in the books that was evident, she was okay with a Tyrell and wondered what he looked like, I think she imagined him like Loras but I don't remember. I think anyone has a right to be attracted to the person they are going to marry, looks brains, heart, soul, all of it. I think people have a right to that, sure we don't always get what we want, but that does not mean we can't want it. Doesn't want to be a Lannister and does not want to be married to someone she is not attracted too. So what?