Talisa's letter (possible spoilers)

[mafalda]

I still think she is a spy.

Yeah, it's weird for her to write a letter to her mom after sex. Here is a shot of the letter. It's in Valyrian, so if you don't speak it (which none of us probably do, minus VM and VD) it isn't much help. I just thought it was cool to look at and the calligraphy is gorgeous.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6i6oGTFzUVE/UZBFQbkhKPI/AAAAAAAADG4/mjdGcb5qE2Q/s1600/From+the+Set+-+Talisa%27s+Letter.jpg

[Cas Stark]

I still think she is a spy.

Yeah, it's weird for her to write a letter to her mom after sex. Here is a shot of the letter. It's in Valyrian, so if you don't speak it (which none of us probably do, minus VM and VD) it isn't much help. I just thought it was cool to look at and the calligraphy is gorgeous.

http://4.bp.blogspot...sa's Letter.jpg

Okay, so she's a spy. Then what happens at the RW? Is she lying about her pregnancy? Is she going to be outed to Robb as a spy and still get killed? Is she going to be saved as a spy? If she's saved, where will the spy go as her mission will have been accomplished?

[Magic 8 Ball]

Per the "Talisa is Pregnant" thread, the guy who created the Valyrian language confirms that the content "isn't gibberish", but is also declining to post the text until after the season is over.

Spy.

[The Dragon King]

I've said this a few times now, it really doesn't make sense for the letters Tywin are reading to be in English, while the ones Talisa are writing are in Valyrian. It would require a "middle man" to translate between the two, which would honestly just be a stupid idea if you are trying to keep a spy hidden. I think he's reading letters from Freys and Boltons, and Talisa's letters are just to troll people who are invested in that theory. Such a literal dismissal of a popular theory seems like trolling from GRRM to me.

If that middle man is Pycelle the risk is minimal. Also, there is a TREMENDOUS risk in getting caught if the letter is in the Common Tongue, it seems less ricky overall to write in Valyrian.

[mafalda]

Okay, so she's a spy. Then what happens at the RW? Is she lying about her pregnancy? Is she going to be outed to Robb as a spy and still get killed? Is she going to be saved as a spy? If she's saved, where will the spy go as her mission will have been accomplished?

We don't know what happens at the RW with her. Shit, Jeyne Westerling was not at the Red Wedding, but if you look at the pic of the RW, talisa is clearly there. I'm almost certain this is a shot of the RW, especially since Roose is there in the background, where else would they be?

http://25.media.tumblr.com/9007ff443d91e755d7a8ab60d909a3b7/tumblr_mk0pocAX5Z1r9h4heo1_1280.jpg

But what am I talking about, this episode has clearly already confirmed that Talisa will be there. If she is a spy, she will be spared, or killed (just because) or could possibly be Farya (I know she's too old, it's just a speculation, I don't know who else will play her at this point).

I don't know anything for sure, I just know too many things have led me to the theory that she is a spy. I'm clearly not the only one on this boat.

[Cas Stark]

We don't know what happens at the RW with her. Shit, Jeyne Westerling was not at the Red Wedding, but if you look at the pic of the RW, talisa is clearly there. I'm almost certain this is a shot of the RW, especially since Roose is there in the background, where else would they be?

http://25.media.tumb...h4heo1_1280.jpg

But what am I talking about, this episode has clearly already confirmed that Talisa will be there. If she is a spy, she will be spared, or killed (just because) or could possibly be Farya (I know she's too old, it's just a speculation, I don't know who else will play her at this point).

I don't know anything for sure, I just know too many things have led me to the theory that she is a spy. I'm clearly not the only one on this boat.

I'm just saying from a plot perspective, what would the purpose have been to make her a spy unless she lives? How are they going to squeeze in some revelation about her being a spy to Robb while they're at the wedding and why would they do that? If she doesn't live, then her being a spy would be even stupider as a plot device because we would only find out right when she dies. If she is a spy and lives and stays in the show then that is a massive, massive departure from the books and this is no longer an adaptation but an 'inspired by' TV show.

So, I think she is not a spy and she dies, thats the only thing that can bring the show back into line with the book.

[mbuehner]

Okay, so she's a spy. Then what happens at the RW? Is she lying about her pregnancy? Is she going to be outed to Robb as a spy and still get killed? Is she going to be saved as a spy? If she's saved, where will the spy go as her mission will have been accomplished?

I like the idea of Cat killing her instead of Jingle Bells.

[Dubbs]

If that middle man is Pycelle the risk is minimal. Also, there is a TREMENDOUS risk in getting caught if the letter is in the Common Tongue, it seems less ricky overall to write in Valyrian.

This is very true, Pycelle helped convince Aerys to open the gates after all. That being said, I don't see Tywin as the type to put so much faith in another person at this moment, especially a non-Lannister. If Pycelle speaks Valyrian and is translating though everything would add up to a crappy ending. I wish you weren't so convincing :bang:

[flinn]

In the book I got the impression the Mother was in on the scheme with Tywin but the daughter was just a clueless tool.

In the show, there is no doubt in my mind she is a spy working for Tywin. They made it blatantly obvious. You have Tywin saying we are losing this war, we have to help him make some mistakes, and the VERY NEXT scene switched to Talisa. THEN you have Arya reading the letter saying "The Young Wolf is on the move" and Rob questions her and she jokingly says "you are right, I was writing "the Young Wolf is on the move".

Blatantly obvious that in the show she is a spy. A spy who managed to get pregnant so she is carrying one of the most important babies in Westeros.

By getting pregnant she makes sure that she has somewhere to go and a part to play in the future of Westeros.

[Young Nan]

Well, it was Mother's Day.

LOL. Look at all of us, accusing her of spying when she was in fact just being a good daughter :)

[mafalda]

I'm just saying from a plot perspective, what would the purpose have been to make her a spy unless she lives? How are they going to squeeze in some revelation about her being a spy to Robb while they're at the wedding and why would they do that? If she doesn't live, then her being a spy would be even stupider as a plot device because we would only find out right when she dies. If she is a spy and lives and stays in the show then that is a massive, massive departure from the books and this is no longer an adaptation but an 'inspired by' TV show.

So, I think she is not a spy and she dies, thats the only thing that can bring the show back into line with the book.

Pssh you can't ask me to fathom the minds of D&D. Why change the entire Jeyne Westerling character to Talisa from Volantis? It's such a drastic change, and minus all of the clues she's been shelling out this season and last, it's just what I think.

I don't know what will happen with her if she lives. Like another poster said, it would be really cool to have Cat kill her instead of Jinglebells. Or have her be given to Ramsay (heh).

It is a VERY stupid plot device, I completely agree with you, Cas. It's very typical and eye rolling. But too... many.. clues! Why fix something when it isn't broken? The original Jeyne would have worked just fine, imho. 3

[mafalda]

I'm just saying from a plot perspective, what would the purpose have been to make her a spy unless she lives? How are they going to squeeze in some revelation about her being a spy to Robb while they're at the wedding and why would they do that? If she doesn't live, then her being a spy would be even stupider as a plot device because we would only find out right when she dies. If she is a spy and lives and stays in the show then that is a massive, massive departure from the books and this is no longer an adaptation but an 'inspired by' TV show.

So, I think she is not a spy and she dies, thats the only thing that can bring the show back into line with the book.

Forgot to respond to this.

As much as I love the show, for a while now I feel like this is an 'inspired by' TV show. Especially last season when they butchered Dany's character by making her ball up her fists and jump up and down and threaten to burn everyone, create that completely false dragon gate storyline, then mess up her biggest scene that season (HotU).

[Cas Stark]

Pssh you can't ask me to fathom the minds of D&D. Why change the entire Jeyne Westerling character to Talisa from Volantis? It's such a drastic change, and minus all of the clues she's been shelling out this season and last, it's just what I think.

I don't know what will happen with her if she lives. Like another poster said, it would be really cool to have Cat kill her instead of Jinglebells. Or have her be given to Ramsay (heh).

It is a VERY stupid plot device, I completely agree with you, Cas. It's very typical and eye rolling. But too... many.. clues! Why fix something when it isn't broken? The original Jeyne would have worked just fine, imho. 3

I will laugh out loud if Cat kills her, that would almost redeem the whole plot debacle they created.

But, I still don't see why the show would want to turn Robb into such a chump, it's bad enough they turned him into a selfish whiner, do they have to totally make him a worthless POS who throws it all away for a lie?

I agree they've thrown out some clues, weird, guilty looks that she has, the letters, etc. but, my brain can't comprehend they would fully complete their butchery of the story in such a way by leaving Robb with nothing at all.

[ugashep]

I hope she's not enemy

because Jeyne Westerling (Robb's wife in the books) is not evil

Yeah but her mother is.

[ugashep]

I am still of the opinion that this is red herring material thrown in to confuse the audience.

I don't see why they would make Robb into such a total chump.

You know I never saw Robb look like a chump until last night, what was that? He acted like he couldn't handle his shit (or rather Talisa's) I know she's hot but he was way across the sap line, he looked light headed.

[Young Nan]

You know I never saw Robb look like a chump until last night, what was that? He acted like he couldn't handle his shit (or rather Talisa's) I know she's hot but he was way across the sap line, he looked light headed.

Lol so true. He said that "if u don't stop looking so sexy I might have to..." line like 3 times.

Be cool, Robb. I know she's hot, but be cool.

[Hank Scorpio]

Fubar

[Jorah the Explorer]

I agree, there's a lot of evidence for it. But it doesn't make sense from a plot standpoint. The main cause of the Red Wedding is the slight on Walder Frey by Robb's marriage. And now suddenly, his new wife is complicit in the planning of it? Case one: Talisa is in cahoots with Walder Frey as well as Tywin, which doesn't make a lick of sense. Case two: Talisa is only in cahoots with Tywin, in which case why would she risk her life by attending the wedding? Anyway, we'll find out.

[Theda Baratheon]

Stupid fucking awful character Talisa IM SO FUCKING ANGRY WITH TALISA TAKING UP TIME THAT COULD BE USED ON CATELYN

[ugashep]

Lol so true. He said that "if u don't stop looking so sexy I might have to..." line like 3 times.

Be cool, Robb. I know she's hot, but be cool.

I actually had the thought last night that Littlefinger nailed it in Season 1 when he said: "Starks: quick tempers, small minds", with the exception of Arya, the whole lot of them are starting to look really dense.