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dalrymple123

Talisa's letter (possible spoilers)

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It's a red herring to bait the non-readers. They're going to be waiting for the reveal that Talisa is working against Robb, and then they'll get blindsided by the REAL threat.

Speaking of, there was a nice set-up with Jaime telling Roose to tell Robb that "the Lannisters send their regards".

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What does marrying a woman with no claim to anything gain Ramsay? If Robb is killed, Tyrion and Sansa's will claim Winterfell since Bran and Rickon are thought to be dead/lost.

Yes but Ramsey marries 'Arya' after Tyrion flees and Sansa is lost, pretty much foresaking any claim they have to Winterfell and the north. IIRC most of the northern lords have a suspicion Arya is not Arya (I may be wrong) but I just feel that that's the only path the showrunners can take with her.

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Why is everyone presuming that if Talisa was indeed Tywin's spy she would be party to his plans? I mean she could just be supplying information to him and he could be feeding her bulshit. Some thing along the lines of during the RW, Roose stabs Robb, Talisa screams: "But this is not what the Lannisters promised, Tywin said he would just keep Robb hostage until his bannermen would agree to disband and then he would let us go, after I persuaded Robb to bend his knee. Go back to Winterfell and live happily ever after, without Robb knowing I betrayed him by spying for Tywin."

If she was a spy, this would seem like the most logical solution, a spy, but not an assassin and the one that thinks it can all still end well for her, Robb and the baby. Everyone seems to focus on her being somehow key to Tywin's plans, why would she be. He'd just have hired her to do her job and be on the "need to know basis" with her.

She could still be a victim here, even if a spy. Not much of an innocent victim, but victim nonetheless. Then she could just be married off to Ramsey, since it fits nicely with him finally being revealed through Roose declaring that his bastard took Winterfell.

Actually, I've pointed this out before. Very often spies are dupes as much as they people they are spying on.

Even if she is a spy it is highly unlikely she'd know what is being planned for Robb... I predict she'll be the one to pursuade him to keep GW leashed outside the twins but this may well be because she's as afraid of the wolf as everyone else is, but the RW will surprise her as much as anyone else and she will be one of its victims. Perhaps even standing in for Jingle Bells as some others say.

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I'm very conflicted about this matter

I don't want her to be a spy because I just think that's fu*king stupid. there are so many flaws in her story up until now, but that could also be due to poor writing for a half-arsed character. she writes a letter to her mum right after sex.... well I kinda get the train of thought there, sex, impregnation, informing mother, I get it I think. Cat seems to really hate her, that could be a clue, but Cat didn't like Jeyne too much either, she seem to see her as more of a breeding device for her son than anything. but Cat also doesn't like Jon so, meh. if she really were a spy and is in on the RW or we find out at the RW it will take the main point out of the whole even, being Robbs bad decision to go back on his word. I like to think this is all just a red herring, like people have been saying, but we just wont know until we know..... I guess

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but that could also be due to poor writing for a half-arsed character.

I thought her arse looked rather full, in that scene especially... :drool:

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I am still of the opinion that this is red herring material thrown in to confuse the audience.

I don't see why they would make Robb into such a total chump.

I think it's one of teh show's many shout outs to theories and points made off the show, the letter alludes to the conspiracies without actually giving any evidence at all for or against them

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Talisa is not a spy. It's just red herrings.

Robb would have been assassinated by her a long time ago otherwise.

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Talisa is not a spy. It's just red herrings.

Robb would have been assassinated by her a long time ago otherwise.

I dont think so. First- she probably isn't suicidal, and its by no means sure she could escape and not be tracked down by a horde of angry rivermen and northmen who know the country better than her. Second- killing Robb wouldn't end the war. Somebody else would very likely take up the standard, angrier than ever that the Lannisters resort to assassins. Tywin needed a way to crush the resistance en mass. He couldnt do it in a battle so he found a way to do it otherwise. It wasn't just Robbs death- it was the death of most of his bannermen and soldiers, the capture of Edmure and other hostages. That ended the war in a stroke instead of enduring years of resistance when Stanis and the Greyjoys were still in open revolt.

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I dont think so. First- she probably isn't suicidal, and its by no means sure she could escape and not be tracked down by a horde of angry rivermen and northmen who know the country better than her. Second- killing Robb wouldn't end the war. Somebody else would very likely take up the standard, angrier than ever that the Lannisters resort to assassins. Tywin needed a way to crush the resistance en mass. He couldnt do it in a battle so he found a way to do it otherwise. It wasn't just Robbs death- it was the death of most of his bannermen and soldiers, the capture of Edmure and other hostages. That ended the war in a stroke instead of enduring years of resistance when Stanis and the Greyjoys were still in open revolt.

I totally agree.

Even if you are close to someone, its not that easy to kill that person. Its a HUGE risk and if you fail, then its all over.

I think Tywin isnt like Littlefinger, who bets high.

Tywin is much more carfull and observing.

Look, at how he dealt with Joff... he was very carefull and wasnt all out confrontation like Tyrion.

Or even the fact, that he only sided with Roberts rebellion in the very last moment.

I dont think, he would gamble the risk of losing his best spy at an attempt to kill one northmen, when he doesnt even know for sure, that this will end the war. (Someone else like a Karstark could take over ect.)

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I'm assuming she means to package up the letters she has written and then will have them sent to be carried by ship.

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The part that buggs me out most about the letter being to her mother, is the problem of delivery.

Ravens don't just fly over the Narrow Sea... A letter from somewhere in Westeros would have to be sent to a bigger city with a port (White Harbor, KL, Old Town, ...) where a ship would have to be found and the captain of this ship would need to be paid.

This whole thing would take up at least a few month, it is very uncertain if the sailer would deliver the letter and there is also the problem with the payment. (ofc Varys could do it faster, but he's Varys...)

Well maybe it's just me and the writers just decided to let her write letters from time to time, without thinking about how those letters would get to their destination.

edit:

What Ran wrote just above me could also make sense.

Well i guess we will have to wait for at least ep9 before we find out for certain. I for one, am very much looking forward to the translation of the letter :D

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I dont think so. First- she probably isn't suicidal, and its by no means sure she could escape and not be tracked down by a horde of angry rivermen and northmen who know the country better than her. Second- killing Robb wouldn't end the war. Somebody else would very likely take up the standard, angrier than ever that the Lannisters resort to assassins. Tywin needed a way to crush the resistance en mass. He couldnt do it in a battle so he found a way to do it otherwise. It wasn't just Robbs death- it was the death of most of his bannermen and soldiers, the capture of Edmure and other hostages. That ended the war in a stroke instead of enduring years of resistance when Stanis and the Greyjoys were still in open revolt.

I totally agree.

Even if you are close to someone, its not that easy to kill that person. Its a HUGE risk and if you fail, then its all over.

I think Tywin isnt like Littlefinger, who bets high.

Tywin is much more carfull and observing.

Look, at how he dealt with Joff... he was very carefull and wasnt all out confrontation like Tyrion.

Or even the fact, that he only sided with Roberts rebellion in the very last moment.

I dont think, he would gamble the risk of losing his best spy at an attempt to kill one northmen, when he doesnt even know for sure, that this will end the war. (Someone else like a Karstark could take over ect.)

Killing the King in the North when you have the next heir to the North as your hostage is actually the proper way to end the war. The Red Wedding works because Robb dies, not because some of his bannermen do.

Talisa's medical training gives her access to supplies (and ordering more supplies yet) that would make getting access to poison very simple. Getting out of the camp wouldn't be very difficult to do at night, in my opinion. Do you really think the Karstark's could lead a Northern army the way Robb did?

What has her "spying" accomplished? Robb is still undefeated in the field. Tywin could have planned any number of foolproof strategies with access to the wife who spends her time discussing military talk at Robb's battle table. Instead he is resorting to the Red Wedding, just like in the novel.

If Talisa is a spy, it is one of the most senseless and unrealistic plots ever contrived, on one of the smartest television shows ever. It's not going to happen. We can talk about it after.

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Killing the King in the North when you have the next heir to the North as your hostage is actually the proper way to end the war. The Red Wedding works because Robb dies, not because some of his bannermen do.

I wonder why they didnt think of that during RR, kill the king and keep his children alive, and everyone lives happily ever after.

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Tywin's letters have all been in English. Talisa's, apparently, are not.

Talisa could be writing her mom who then sends another letter to Tywin. Makes complete sense!! She's totally a spy and she's not knocked up!!

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Talisa could be writing her mom who then sends another letter to Tywin. Makes complete sense!! She's totally a spy and she's not knocked up!!

Similar parallel to the Westerlings... she doesn't have to be privy to her Mom's plans

Also, if Talisa is indeed a double agent undermining Robb, we suddenly have a parallelism with Jon, who is a double agent who also fell in love with the enemy and is also undermining them. And we are (supposed to be) attached to the people in the opposite ends of the treason in the two plot-lines.

Speaking of parallels - Tyrion having to marry Sansa - he says it is his "duty" - whereas Robb breaks his duty by marrying Talisa, thus dooming his cause

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I agree, there's a lot of evidence for it. But it doesn't make sense from a plot standpoint. The main cause of the Red Wedding is the slight on Walder Frey by Robb's marriage. And now suddenly, his new wife is complicit in the planning of it? Case one: Talisa is in cahoots with Walder Frey as well as Tywin, which doesn't make a lick of sense. Case two: Talisa is only in cahoots with Tywin, in which case why would she risk her life by attending the wedding? Anyway, we'll find out.

The red wedding was always about taking Robb out, the Freys/Boltons used the marriage thing as a convenient excuse to betray Robb. It was never about slighting the Freys. Yes, lord Frey stated that over and over, he was just trying to cover his tracks. I think the problem is, some book readers read the text straight forward.

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