Talisa's letter (possible spoilers)

[chewietobbacca]

She doesn't even have to be an obvious spy - she could be an unwitting spy.

Her letters may indeed be sent to her mom - but they may well end up elsewhere, namely in Tywin's hands.

Which of course would make it all that much more tragic when the RW comes..

[stunningsteve]

If D&D want to play with our minds they might pull something like this during E9:

Talisa is with Robb during the wedding ceremony (like we saw in the trailer) but shortly after the start of the feast she says that she isn't feeling well and needs some rest. This is nothing special for a pregnant women, but at this point almost everybody will think she is a spy. After some mocking by Lord Walder she goes to her chamber and Robb orders the Blackfish to watch her.

Then we get the bedding of Edmure and Roslin, Bolton is going to the "privy" and maybe after seeing the arrival of Arya and Sandor outside the Twins the music changes and the massacre starts. Due the noise of fighting the BF is warned enters Talisa's chamber.

We still got several possibilities right now:

1) She is a spy and the BF is captured or killed. Not sure what Talisas fate would be.

2) She isn't a spy and...

a) they attempt to flee but are captured or killed.

b ) they flee in a spectacular way e.g. jumping from the bridge or tower into the river.

3) A combination of the other possibilities.

[LadyMary]

I think everything is possible at this time.

She might indeed have been a spy from the beginning. The orders would have been to spy on Robbs army.

When he fell in love with her by chance, the orders changed. Would work....

The Letter on the other hand... I too think, that it would be coded if she were a spy. So a translation wouldnt help really.

I'm highly skeptical about the Talisa-spy theory and still think it's more likely a red herring, but I suppose she could have been like Ser Jorah, sent to spy but inadvertently falls in love with the subject of her spying and is trying to extricate herself from the conspirators.

I don't think she's faking being in love with Robb.

[runeghost]

Per the "Talisa is Pregnant" thread, the guy who created the Valyrian language confirms that the content "isn't gibberish", but is also declining to post the text until after the season is over.

Spy.

Not necessarily, or at least, not necessarily for Tywin. There are plenty of other epileptic trees out there that would warrant keeping her letter contents away from readers so as to not spoil things.

She could be one of the Sand Snakes. She could be a child of Gerion Lannister. She could be related to or working for Varys or Illyrio. Or, to get really far out there, she could be a Faceless Man, a sorceress of some flavor, or even Quaithe. :cool4: I don't think these are likely, particularly the latter ones, but there could certainly be some reason beyond "Lannister spy".

[FacelessSnow]

Just like the Westerlings, it will be revileved either this season or next that Tywin had been paying Talisa's family for the information.

Talisa has been set up to look like and estranged daughter of a nobel from Volantis, with the story of her brother and slaves it seems as though she could be a runaway or exiled for whatever reason. Has it not seemed strange to anyone else that a girl of nobel birth just up and crossed the Narrow Sea denouncing slavery (its economic back-bound) and was married without any mention before this letter of her parents? If she isnt a spy herself, her mother or father will most definetly be like in the books.

As for her presence at RW. I don't know my guess is the BF saves her, and we learn about this grand conspiracy in the following seasons whenever the scene with Jaime at Riverrun is shown.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I believe getting her back to Volantis away from Westeros is probably part of the deal Tywin broke with her parents. But that's so far down the road that you can label it as a crackpot theory.

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

I read all eight pages and while I'm a "not a spy" camper. I think I should just bring up this point since no one thought of it.

If Talisa is a spy then she needs to claim that she is pregnant because Robb is going to find out that Sansa is marrying Tyrion(probably next episode) which is going to make Robb and Catelyn very scared that they're trying to claim Winterfell through her since Bran and Rickon are missing.

If Robb believes that he has an heir on the way then he's not going to be as concerned about Sansa's marriage. Remember in the books he doesn't have a male heir which prompts him into drastic action. This won't happen in the show if he believes he got Talisa prego.

We don't know what happens at the RW with her. Shit, Jeyne Westerling was not at the Red Wedding, but if you look at the pic of the RW, talisa is clearly there. I'm almost certain this is a shot of the RW, especially since Roose is there in the background, where else would they be?

http://25.media.tumb...h4heo1_1280.jpg

Being at the RW doesn't mean anything, Arya missed the wedding, it's the feast and bedding that matters. Having Talisa be prego actually adds weight that she won't attend the feast.

Blackfish is at the RW too right? Perhaps he escapes with Talisa and goes back to Riverrun. With the surviving Northern troops. This is just wishful thinking.

I would call that confirmed. A letter to mom wouldn't matter.

Can you read Valyrian? Something cannot be confirmed until it's proven true, I think that the writers of the show have picked up on this theory and they'll feeding milk to the trolls just because they can. It's quite hilarious. That's why he's not releasing the transcript of the letter till the end of the season.

One thing that kind of bugged me... Shouldn't Robb know Valyrian? I mean, Arya remembered some when she went to Braavos from her education in Winterfell and she was never like Sansa. Sansa loved books, stories, songs, all that. I guess I'm just assuming Robb would've been taught Valyrian just because Arya knew a little... but Robb was the son of the highest Lord in the North, so I think he should have been.

Arya doesn't speak a word of Valyrian or any other language when she goes to Braavos. Maybe you're thinking of Sam or Tyrion? The reason they know Valyrian is because they were both books worms. Tyrion has more knowledge of history than some maesters and Sam will probably forge a maester's chain in record time(i hope). Tyrion and Sam were both book worms so learning Valyrian is probably something that few noble children do. Jorah learns to speak quite a few languages fluently in his years in exile so all of them are similar.

and Arya is horrible at learning another language. Keep that in mind. She hates it more than needlework, real needlework.

Doesn't Arya know some Valyrian from her studies? If Maester Luwin taught her that, I bet Pycelle knows Valyrian too.

Arya doesn't know any Valyrian besides valar morghulis and valar doeheris. All maesters study different things. Grand Maester Pycelle doesn't necessarily know more than "all other maesters" especially considering how long it's been since he was at the Citadel(they made him Grand Maester quite young because the two previous Grand Maesters died so fast, so he doesn't know as much as the Arch Maesters even). Even identifying the links on his maester's chain doesn't work because the Grand Maester gets to wear an "ornamental" chain with links he didn't actually earn.

I think the one time that we can see Grand Maester Pycelle not really knowing much is when Qyburn schools him in magic, poisons and healing(in the show), though those are two of his "specialty" areas.

Yes but Ramsey marries 'Arya' after Tyrion flees and Sansa is lost, pretty much foresaking any claim they have to Winterfell and the north. IIRC most of the northern lords have a suspicion Arya is not Arya (I may be wrong) but I just feel that that's the only path the showrunners can take with her.

That wasn't how it was suppose to work out, 'Arya' was promised to 'Ramsey' before the RW, Roose was promised to be Warden of the North and given a Frey wife, the dowry being quite nice. The RW happens and Tywin reminds Tyrion that he needs to impregnate Sansa or else he'll lose his chance to claim the North. Then the PW happens and the Boltons now have a clear advantage to gain the upper hand on the North. Then Theon steals 'Arya' and the Bolton's lose their Stark to control the North... wonder what happens next?

The Bolton's are not stupid they know that they need a Stark to control the North, that is the purpose that 'Arya' serves. Talisa is not a Stark.

Talisa won't become fake Arya. Tywin wants Sansa to be the key to the North, Talisa's baby is the heir to Winterfell over Sansa's child. That ruins his "legacy" plans.

I dont think so. First- she probably isn't suicidal, and its by no means sure she could escape and not be tracked down by a horde of angry rivermen and northmen who know the country better than her. Second- killing Robb wouldn't end the war.

First off she could give him a poison that would kill him slowly and slip away. Second killing Robb does end the war as far as the North is concerned. We see proof of that in the books. There is very few Lords that continue to fight after Robb dies, Blackfish being the biggest one. Brackens or Blackwoods being another and Starfall being a third one I think.

I personally hope that the North will rise again.

Somebody else would very likely take up the standard, angrier than ever that the Lannisters resort to assassins. Tywin needed a way to crush the resistance en mass. He couldnt do it in a battle so he found a way to do it otherwise. It wasn't just Robbs death- it was the death of most of his bannermen and soldiers, the capture of Edmure and other hostages. That ended the war in a stroke instead of enduring years of resistance when Stanis and the Greyjoys were still in open revolt.

Honestly, it didn't end the war, it just suspended it while the North regroups. The North will never forget the RW, that was the dumbest idea that Tywin ever had.

I'm torn...but today I'm leaning toward not spy :P

Curious though, are any of the unsullied thinking she's a spy, or this really just a book reader theory?

My brother and mom watch the show and are unsullied, my mom thinks they genuinely fell in love and my brother thinks Talisa is scheming like everyone else in the show. She wanted to be Queen is why she married Robb, she's a gold digger he calls her, like Margaery.

I find it hard to argue with his assessment, Talisa met Robb after he was King in the North and one of the first things she asked him was "Are you going to take the Iron Throne? No. Then who are you going to put on it?"

[Tori Targaryen]

Someone needs to get a Valyrian dictionary, pronto, and get that letter deciphered lol Though I think all will be revealed in 2 weeks anyway without needed to go to the lengths of learning a new language...

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

Someone needs to get a Valyrian dictionary, pronto, and get that letter deciphered lol Though I think all will be revealed in 2 weeks anyway without needed to go to the lengths of learning a new language...

or just find the person who invented the valyrian langauge for the show and make him translate it.

[Jorah the Explorer]

I doubt that they picked up on the theory in time for filming this season. The famous "Roose Change" video, where I and many others were introduced to it, only came out a week before Season 3 started airing. I'm sure you can dig into the deepest corners of the internet to find speculation before that, but that won't prove any points.

[teemo]

Wow, the fandom seems really split down the middle on this one. I keep changing my mind, but I have some serious issues with the spy theory. Obviously, I think at this point her being a spy is pretty dumb, but that doesn't come into play in whether it's true or not because D&D have made some...questionable decisions in the past, so to assume that they're geniuses and that because her being a spy that fell in love would be "cheesy, dumb" or be filled with plot holes DOESN'T mean that it can't be true.

However, if she IS a spy, then why is she at the RW? Some people have noted that she could be a spy but unaware of the RW - Tywin isn't filling her in. I guess that's possible...but what, at the last second she is going to be revealed as a spy? By who? Walder? Herself? And then what? Her replacing Jinglebell is kind of a cool theory, but I was thinking...is Catelyn really going to kill her unborn grandchild? Then wouldn't everyone be focusing way too much on Cat being a murderer? Or maybe she's revealed as a spy AND a liar who isn't pregnant, but....that doesn't sound right to me.

Also, the fact that Talisa simply could have killed Robb by now is a point...but couldn't Jeyne in the books have done the same thing, technically? She could have poisoned him or something, right? Maybe she's a spy who fell in love and has now abandoned her mission? That sounds beyond stupid, but I'm just trying to brainstorm how exactly her being a spy could play out, especially since it seems to be quite clear that she'll be at the RW. That screenshot says a lot. It says she won't be going back to Riverrun.

[Cas Stark]

Here is how her being a spy plays out: you said it yourself, beyond stupid.

**I didn't get the sense that Jeyne was in on anything, and maybe her mother couldn't get close enough to Robb to poison him, but in hindsight, its a bit of a book plot hole as well, that the Westerlings should/could have been able to poison or kill Robb and things w/out the mayhem of the RW because then the Northern lords would have bent the knee for sure and the war is over and fewer people dead and Tywin doesn't owe any favors to freaks like Walder Frey and Roose Bolton.

[Draco_Dracul]

Also, the fact that Talisa simply could have killed Robb by now is a point...but couldn't Jeyne in the books have done the same thing, technically? She could have poisoned him or something, right? Maybe she's a spy who fell in love and has now abandoned her mission? That sounds beyond stupid, but I'm just trying to brainstorm how exactly her being a spy could play out, especially since it seems to be quite clear that she'll be at the RW. That screenshot says a lot. It says she won't be going back to Riverrun.

Unlike Jeyne, if Talisa is a spy she's an intentional one, not merely an unwitting pawn. There is no reason for Spylysa not to kill Robb, unless she had fallen in love with him by the time they got married in which case why would she still be sending letters?

She might get to Riverrun if she isn't at the feast. Actually what would be funny is if the Blackfish takes her aside just before the massacre during the feast to accuse her of being a spy only to realize as the Rains of Castemere plays that if she were a spy she wouldn't be there.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

the one hang up in this theory is that what are the chances of him walking by where she was caring for the soldier at? gotta be pretty small.Unless Roose was all "hey look a hot nurse, lets go talk to her"

[Winter In My Heart]

the one hang up in this theory is that what are the chances of him walking by where she was caring for the soldier at? gotta be pretty small.Unless Roose was all "hey look a hot nurse, lets go talk to her"

From the video people think Bolton lead him to where she was. Not that I really support this theory.. I'll hate if its true, but it's hard to deny there isn't a possibility this will be the case.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

From the video people think Bolton lead him to where she was. Not that I really support this theory.. I'll hate if its true, but it's hard to deny there isn't a possibility this will be the case.

is that why the video said he knew what she was? Had roose even switched sides at that point?

[juanml82]

the one hang up in this theory is that what are the chances of him walking by where she was caring for the soldier at? gotta be pretty small.Unless Roose was all "hey look a hot nurse, lets go talk to her"

Well, if she is a spy, she could have introduced herself to Robb asking for supplies for the wounded. She didn't need to, because Robb went her way.

[Winter In My Heart]

is that why the video said he knew what she was? Had roose even switched sides at that point?

Honestly I don't know. I mean I personally didn't think Roose switched until after Robb married Jeyne (in the books.) But some think he was planning on switching sides earlier than that. Which show wise I could see being the case. I mean he always seems to leave them alone whenever she barged in. It's hard to say because he's cold and calculating and could have just waited to see how everything played out before siding with Tywin.

So I'm kind of on the fence to whether he switched or not or even knew what she was at that point. (If she's a spy.) I'm waiting until after the Red Wedding to just see what happens and how things play out. From what I've read though I'm leaning towards her being a spy.

[Oakenfist]

I think Talisa will play the role of Dacey Mormont in the RW. Meaning she will find out when one of the Frey bastards are wearing chainmail and is then stabbed right after.

But if she does end up a spy then perhaps she doesn't know the extent of Tywin's plan. She might think they'll just be imprisoned and not massacred Basically, I can't see her making a full bad turn spy or no spy.

[Winter In My Heart]

I think Talisa will play the role of Dacey Mormont in the RW. Meaning she will find out when one of the Frey bastards are wearing chainmail and is then stabbed right after.

But if she does end up a spy then perhaps she doesn't know the extent of Tywin's plan. She might think they'll just be imprisoned and not massacred Basically, I can't see her making a full bad turn spy or no spy.

Wait why would she make a bad turn if she wasn't a spy?

[JCrowley90]

I think the whole thing is a red herring - keep the the non book readers thinking there's something else to Talisa, that they've sussed where any betrayal might come from, letting them not give a spare look for the likes of Roose Bolton.