[book spoilers] PhD research thread: Mental images of THAT upcoming scene

[AzorAhai42]

Oh yeah, awesome project! I'm so jealous of you!!!

[GhostofSummer]

"Robb!" she screamed. She saw Smalljon Umber wrestle a table off its trestles. Crossbow bolts thudded into the wood, one two three, as he flung it down on top of his king.

to me, the most suspenseful lines of the series, and if the TV show makes me feel anything like I did while reading this, then job well done. the only inkling of foreshadowing I got was from Grey Wind's behavior, though not enough to see anything like this happening.. character deaths in literature, opposed to watching on flim/TV, are always a litle more surreal to me. Like, wait, it said he just stabbed Robb through the heart.. and twisted .. and something about a Lannister.. STOP. Re-read that again. Jesus, Robb's really dead. I still don't believe it. Conversely when you watch a death on film, it never instantly pauses, giving you that minute to absord the loss/shock, before resuming action. Crazy stuff is still happening, so your reaction will come after 5 more whirlwind minutes, in which all you were able to think was, "oh shit, oh shit, oh shit, WHAT IS HAPPENING@!!@#@)#_!!!!!!"

I started reading the books after watching season 1. so Ned's death came as a complete shock, and cemented my love for it. I always wonder about what it would be like to watch this scene without having gone ahead and read the series... I think the internets might break, and I'm a little jealous I already know what's coming.

[Stobb Rark]

"Robb!" she screamed. She saw Smalljon Umber wrestle a table off its trestles. Crossbow bolts thudded into the wood, one two three, as he flung it down on top of his king.

to me, the most suspenseful lines of the series, and if the TV show makes me feel anything like I did while reading this, then job well done. the only inkling of foreshadowing I got was from Grey Wind's behavior, though not enough to see anything like this happening.. character deaths in literature, opposed to watching on flim/TV, are always a litle more surreal to me. Like, wait, it said he just stabbed Robb through the heart.. and twisted .. and something about a Lannister.. STOP. Re-read that again. Jesus, Robb's really dead. I still don't believe it. Conversely when you watch a death on film, it never instantly pauses, giving you that minute to absord the loss/shock, before resuming action. Crazy stuff is still happening, so your reaction will come after 5 more whirlwind minutes, in which all you were able to think was, "oh shit, oh shit, oh shit, WHAT IS HAPPENING@!!@#@)#_!!!!!!"

I started reading the books after watching season 1. so Ned's death came as a complete shock, and cemented my love for it. I always wonder about what it would be like to watch this scene without having gone ahead and read the series... I think the internets might break, and I'm a little jealous I already know what's coming.

First post on here - so hello :)

Right, I wasn't a G.O.T book reader, until I (very stupidly, and for the first time with any show) read a spoiler. Which was the Red Wedding. Firstly, Robb is my favourite character in the show so far (though, after this season, Jaime has gone right up in my estimation - a superb character) so you can imagine my absolute "WTF?!" at seeing he gets slaughtered. I was devastated, still am. He's such a strong character, he is the North and I couldn't see how they could do it. Then I read more about George RR Martin and started reading the books, and I can see why. A few other people I know have done the same thing and have genuinely thought they won't follow through with bumping him off (they will, they have to). So anyway, I'm in between two books so far - reading a bit of what I've seen already and upto the RW (I know the Arya is ok and not dead).

I'll never read a spoiler again - BUT I'm kinda glad, considering I'd be almost in tears actually seeing it unfold. R.I.P Robb :( :D

[The Lady Lannister]

What were your initial reactions when you first read the scene? What are the most vivid mental images you have of it?

I can still hear the Rains of Castamere, and Cat’s dawning realisation that something is amiss. There are two mental images that will stay with me about it:

Cat watching Robb die (knowing her husband, father, and all her other children are dead or beyond her reach) and holding a knife to the jester’s head, and generally losing her mind and

Arya desperately trying to get to her Mommy (she is so close) and then Hound hits her with an axe.

I actually found the 2^nd scene more upsetting, because I thought she died as well, and by then all was lost.

How do you think it would have been described from a different point of view than Cat’s or Arya’s?

To me Cat was the most boring and self-righteous narrator, so the previous chapters could have only been better narrated by someone else. However this scene was about a mother’s love and anguish, so nobody else could have explained it better.

I realise nobody dies in their own POV, but Robb’s or Roose Bolton’s thoughts would have been interesting to read. Even a Frey’s POV would add to the scene. We all warmed up to Jaime Lannister after having been given a POV after all. Although I really do not like the Freys.

Arya’s POV superb. Obviously I would love to know what the Hound was thinking, but I doubt that was ever going to happen.

How do you imagine the scene will play out on screen?

It will be a very simplified version of the scene. They will play the Rains of Castamere, as Cersei explained the song to Margery. They will also have Roose kill Robb and say “Jaime Lannister sends his regards”, as that was in a previous episode as well. Otherwise it will be just Cat being desperate and explain the guest right to us, Robb being sullen and lordly, GreatJohn drunk, and Edmure his usual sulking but delighted self. Talisa will be a bit of a distraction, I m not sure how she will get out of it. In the meantime we will see the celebrations outside the castle and Arya and the Hound approaching. Is Brynden going to RW as well? They might flee together to RR, but then will they just repeat at the siege of RR? I am sure there will be a great emphasis on Robb’s head on Grey Wind. I am not sure what will happen to Cat, UnCat would not make great television.

It will definitely be very dramatic and chaotic. Most viewers do not even know who Lord Bolton is. There will be a lot of despair and confusion on the viewers’ boards afterwards.

How much (if at all) are you looking forward to the scene? Can you say why?

This is the first GOT series I am watching, as Storm of Swords is my favourite book of the series. I definitely have high expectations of this episode. I know it is not the same story as the book, but it is going to be epic and probably still more enjoyable for readers than non-readers.

[Mother of Mini Dragons]

What were your initial reactions when you first read the scene? What are the most vivid mental images you have of it?

My initial reaction was horror and sadness. The most vivid image for me were the sound images it created. I could feel Catelyn's headache as the drums were pounding out with the bad music and the sense of trepidation that was created by it. Then the image of her with blood on her hands raking her face in agony is what else stands out for me the most.

How do you think it would have been described from a different point of view than Cat’s or Arya’s?

It's hard for me to imagine someone other than Cat narrating the actual RW b/c her viewpoint and her feelings during it are what really sets the mood and the tone for the complete horror of it, reading while a mother is watching her child be murdered. I don't think anyone else could have created that same feeling. I think if it had been anyone else it just wouldn't have been as personal.

How do you imagine the scene will play out on screen?

Well, I guess I kind of like to think that it will be somewhat handled like Baelor was with Ned's death, except for having the Rains of Castemere playing in the background. Ned's death scene was beautifully done as much as you can say that about that kind of scene. The RW should be its equal or better.

How much (if at all) are you looking forward to the scene? Can you say why?

I'm looking forward to it and I'm not. I know it will be sad and part of me is looking forward to the reactions of my family members who have no idea what is going to happen. But that particular chapter is one of the best written in the book, I remember how reading it - I felt so immersed inside the story that I could almost hear the sounds and smell the smells and feel what Cat was feeling. I'm anxious about whether the TV show can adequately do it justice, but I'm very optimistic.

ETA: I am also starting to have some anxiety about my family's reaction because I'm the one that led them to this series and now they may be mad. I also don't think I'll be able to contain some of my trepidation for this episode from them on that day though I'm going to try my hardest. I plan to have my tissues hidden so my hubby is not tipped off beforehand. I love Cat, it's going to be hard watching her die.

[winwolf]

Cats Screaming/ Walder talking to Cat.

All the northmen slaughtered while being drunk in and around the twins in their tents.

And ofcourse rob sewed on grey wind.

[Sneaky-Tyrell]

What were your initial reactions when you first read the scene? What are the most vivid mental images you have of it?

It was hard but most compelling to read, The sound of the music in the background, the brutality of the slaughter, The treachery or House Bolton, The words spoken by Waldur Frey, The depth of the cut on Catelyns throats, The image of Rob/Grey wind. Arya being smashed with an Axe.

How do you think it would have been described from a different point of view than Cat’s or Arya’s?

Im not sure it would have the same impact if it where told from a different POV

How do you imagine the scene will play out on screen?

Im not sure the scene from the series can have the same impact as in the book as I now know how it unfolds with the exception of the Talisa angle.

How much (if at all) are you looking forward to the scene? Can you say why?

I wouldn't say im looking forward to the actual scene as it is a grim affair but rather to how the show goes about it.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

When I first read the scene, there was inside screaming, sweat, tears, a rising heartbeat, ragged breath, a crashing world, anger, disgust, dread, a growing desire for revenge; which eventually culminated in deadly silence, disbelief and sadness after the last word of the chapter. I have a rather vivid mental image of every scene I read, and while reading this particular scene, I saw the room, I saw the singers, I saw the Freys, I heard the Rains of Castamere, I saw the arrows flying around, the chaos which ensued, the Smalljon dying after trying to save Robb from the crossbolts, I saw Catelyn looking in disgust when she realizes what is going on, and then going mad and killing a son of Walder Frey, I saw Roose Bolton (the pink!) drive a sword through a fifteen-year-old King, I saw Robb dying while Catelyn watches. I could feel the pain of Catelyn as she thinks about her family, Ned, the children, her hair. And then there's nothing. Total darkness.

The feelings of a mother and daughter/sister cannot beat the feelings of a common watcher of the scene. There would be disgust, there would be disbelief, there could even be anger, but it could never portray the feelings of a mother and a daughter/sister. A Frey would have laughed about it perhaps, Sandor Clegane could watch in disbelief, Roose Bolton wouldn't feel much at all, a Stark bannerman would feel disgust, disbelief and sadness, but not one of them would have those strong emotional feeling of Catelyn and Arya. Arya, who almost reached her mother and brother after such a long and hard time, and then arriving during the Red Wedding. Catelyn seeing her son die at the hands of Roose Bolton, going mad and thinking about her children and Ned.. Neh, nothing can beat that.

I hardly have any idea how the scene will play out on screen. They made some changes, obviously, since Talisa is there, as well as the Blackfish. I think they are able to capture the emotions of the people who are present quite well, but I have no idea how it will be portrayed. I just don't know what to expect, other than a massive slaughter, chaos, blood, sweat and tears.

I am not at all looking forward to the scene. I am of House Stark, this was one of the most devastating scenes of the book. It will probably also be one of the most devastating scenes of the series. How could i ever look forward to Robb and Catelyn being killed at the Red Wedding? Catelyn is one of my favourites, I root for the Starks and want them to get their justice and revenge. This scene will, once again, invoke the emotions I had while reading the scene in the book. This is why I will watch this episode alone. The only thing I could possibly look forward to, is how the scene will play out.

I hope this helps. ^^

[Inevittable]

Thanks everyone, keep those answers coming.

It is an awesome project, isn't it? Though I might be a little biased towards it.

I'm quite glad that I know this scene is coming. If I had to watch it for the first time as a TV viewer without knowing that it was going to happen I don't know how I'd react. Knowing my luck I wouldn't have been able to avoid the spoilers though.

This is all very helpful, thanks!

[Lady Hornwood]

What were your initial reactions when you first read the scene? What are the most vivid mental images you have of it?

I was sure Robb was going to get killed at the twins, but the bread and salt made me have my doubts. They were all gone when Cat discovered one of the guests was wearing chainmail. I was not shocked by Robb's death, but I was by Cat's immediate insanity and her death.

Two mental images come to mind when i hear "Red wedding": Cat sawing on Jinglebell's throat, because it was what a person who hasn't killed before would do: not a clean fast cut, but slowly cutting through like cutting meat.

The second image is Raynald Westerling cutting Grey Wind free, becouse it's such a brave and unusual act. His family was afraid of the wolf, he was a squire, he could have easily yielded, but he choose to free the direwolf and die. Even though it's not in the chapter itself, it has had an impact on me.

[LAJN]

Most vivid image is the fully armored men entering the hall with greataxes. Like Catelyn did, you see that and all the hope goes out of you. Those men are there to execute Robb's allies like slaughtering cattle.

I didn't throw the book, but I had to come up for air a few times. My friend, who had begun reading SoS, was in the room and I kept telling him, "Holy shit, I can't believe this. You're not going to believe what happens."

[The Lady Lannister]

Actually a Tywin POV about how we got to the RW would be fascinating

[Aerys Blackfyre]

I can't wait to see the Red Wedding on screen. Mainly just because I have an increased dislike for show Robb.

glad to read that I'm not the only one!

[SynthFG]

I remember reading this for the first time and feeling like I had been punched in the gut

After Cat went down and the chapter ended I had to put the book down and take the time to assimilate what had just happened

It wasn't a surprise in that the signs that something bad would happen had been growing for a while, but the assumption was that despite Ned this was still a standard work of fiction, nobody important would die and the Starks would come out on top,

The RW changed all that in a few very fought chapters

[The King's Justice]

My most vivid image from the Red Wedding is Robb being stabbed in the heart. I've read a few comments above and people seem to think it was Roose Bolton that stabbed him. It's been a while since I've read it, but I thought it was an un-named soldier that just came into the hall... I need to read the scene again.

My initial reaction when reading it was absolute shock. Knowing GRRM, I should have known that he wouldn't have any problems killing off main characters, but it still came as a massive shock. I didn't think he would die right up until the sword went through him. At first he just gets an arrow through the leg, which is a life threatening wound, but it is also survivable. When Roose Bolton leaves the hall and Cat notices him leaving I started to smell a rat, but again, I never suspected he would die.

I was shocked at Robbs death and surprised at Cat's.I dislike Cat a lot in both the book and the show, not the actresses portrayal of her, but actually Cat, so I didn't mourn as much as others might have.

[Catherine Storm]

Roslin's crying was the thing that really made me dread.

The arrow in Robb's chest.

Catelyn sawing Jinglebell's throat.

"Jaime Lannister sends his regards"

Like most others noted, I had threw the book from me and just stared across the room for a while before going through and flicking forward to see more Cat chapters and then rereading over the last paragraphs to be sure I read right!

I find Show Robb is so annoying and foolish though. There was a moment this series where I thought "can't wait for the RW" but I know I won't be saying this when I'm bawling my eyes out next week.

I guess I'm waiting to see if Talisa is really part of this betrayal or not. Even non-readers I've spoken to find her really suss and don't trust her completely. I don't think any of them will expect a betrayal THIS big though..

I hope it's through Cat's perspective. I hope they show her remembering Ned. I hope they make up for all the bad 'decisions' she makes, and show her plain and simply as a mother.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

My most vivid image from the Red Wedding is Robb being stabbed in the heart. I've read a few comments above and people seem to think it was Roose Bolton that stabbed him. It's been a while since I've read it, but I thought it was an un-named soldier that just came into the hall... I need to read the scene again.

My initial reaction when reading it was absolute shock. Knowing GRRM, I should have known that he wouldn't have any problems killing off main characters, but it still came as a massive shock. I didn't think he would die right up until the sword went through him. At first he just gets an arrow through the leg, which is a life threatening wound, but it is also survivable. When Roose Bolton leaves the hall and Cat notices him leaving I started to smell a rat, but again, I never suspected he would die.

I was shocked at Robbs death and surprised at Cat's.I dislike Cat a lot in both the book and the show, not the actresses portrayal of her, but actually Cat, so I didn't mourn as much as others might have.

Sad to say, it was Roose Bolton. Remember the pink, and remember the ''Jaime Lannister sends his regards''. They also kept this line in the series, so I think it's also going to be in the series. I'm still not looking forward. I dread. I am dreading the whole thing at this moment.

[Myrddin]

What were your initial reactions when you first read the scene? What are the most vivid mental images you have of it?

I really hadn't picked up on all the foreshadowing when I read the book for the first time (partly because I was devouring it, after waiting a whole two years after reading Clash of Kings...), but I still remember the dawning dread that built over pages before the massacre started. The sense of unease that grew in Cat until she put her hand on Roose's (?) arm and felt mail beneath his shirt.

To me, that was the best part. So, I'm looking forward to how the scene is set up, how the tension is ramped up slowly until it all just explodes in a flurry of crossbow bolts.

The image of King Robb/Greywind sitting on the throne afterwards is strong too, as is Cat's frantic sawing at the fool's throat when Frey won't stop the madness, but the emotional ride of building tension is what I still remember 13 years after the fact.

[Autopath]

What were your initial reactions when you first read the scene? What are the most vivid mental images you have of it?

I didn't want it to be true. I was shocked and desperate for there to be some way out of it. The most vivid mental images I have are of Robb on his knees before the final stabbing, Cat clawing her face, and Grey Wind being speared to death and going nuts outside.

How do you think it would have been described from a different point of view than Cat’s or Arya’s?

I'm not sure, but if it were described from someone else's point of view, even Robb's, I think it would have been less visceral, less affecting. There's not much worse than seeing your child die in front of you.

How do you imagine the scene will play out on screen?

I've been thinking about this. I think we'll see Robb get stabbed for sure, but I'm thinking they might not actually show Cat's throat get cut. They might pan away or show a sillhouette. I'm nervous about them showing her clawing her face. For some reason, seeing that scares me the most.

How much (if at all) are you looking forward to the scene? Can you say why?

I'm not really looking forward to it. I'm anticipating it, but I'm anxious about it. Nevertheless, I will of course watch it.

[shiola]

There are a few images that keep recurring: first is the image of Cat's descent into madness and the final stroke that slit her throat, second is the treatment of the bodies after the massacre. Why do you think these scenes in particular stand out?

Cat's stands out because we know her and have followed her journey in every book. We've experienced her loss first hand and she's one of the most honest characters in the series. She's not always rational (or even likable to some), but she keeps herself grounded as well as she can given everything that's happened. She's strong. And in this chapter she breaks in a matter of sentences and spirals completely out of control. It's so well written and it's painful that it's happening to CAT of all people, for the reasons I said. Also, even though most of us probably don't have children, it's universally known that there is a certain bond between mother and child that goes deeper than any other; so to see her losing her children is very, very difficult. And, finally, it's the novelty of it all-- in how many works do you witness, firsthand, a character going mad? How often are you in that character's mind as it collapses? It's very scary.

As far as Robb's corpse, that's memorable because it's shocking and outright perverse. Desecration of corpses isn't exactly a new concept to ASoIaF fans, but this sort of deliberate mocking and planning-- the time it took to construct this sickening sort of art form with tons of forethought and attention-- is unlike anything most of us could have imagined. It's just sick.

Also, which of you read this scene after you'd started watching the show, and which of you read it before watching the show?

I watched seasons 1 & 2 in a marathon right after 2 ended, and I picked up the books the next day, reading them over last summer before season 3.