[book spoilers] Theon's manhood

[mbuehner]

That passage is ambiguous in the books, except for what's projected by the mind of the reader.

I did say 'Explicit'.

Do we really know if Ned Stark is dead?

[Cas Stark]

I will admit that I considered his penis being cut off as the same as castration so I suppose technically, if Ramsey only cut that off he wasn't castrated, but it seems like a minor point to me to quibble over....clearly the text indicates his "manhood" is gone.

[Jon Snows Ghost]

I've always thought they've really messed him up by all ways referring to him as not a man.

“A man would turn against me in your place, but we know what you are, don’t we?” - Ramsay

“My lord,” he said, “my place is here, with you. I’m your Reek. I only want to serve you. All I ask … a skin of wine, that would be reward enough for me … red wine, the strongest that you have, all the wine a man can drink …”

Lord Ramsay laughed. “You’re not a man, Reek. You’re just my creature. You’ll have your wine, though.”

Ramsay slapped his face. “Take him,” he told his father. “He’s not even a man. The way he smells disgusts me.”

“M’lord. If I might ask … why did you want me? I’m no use to anyone, I’m not even a man, I’m broken, and … the smell …”

I've always thought that Theon lost his manhood mentally not physically. He's been beating, racked, cut, flayed, and possibly raped to be dehumanized / take his manhood....so I just thought is was all mental........but now not so much.

I also have no doubt in my mind that George is the type of person to use this opportunity while writing this scene to fuck with book readers heads.

[poggo]

^{People have to keep in mind, that there are no real "facts" in a fictional story.}

^{This is especially important, when the autor lets people guess about it. If you read a story, you create your own world, with the help of the writer.}

^{It doesnt matter, what GRRMs opinion is about such a hidden "truths". Its "your" world as well. So to say, every book reader has a parallel-universe in his head, that slightly differs from the "truth" of GRRM. But its actually just as "real".}

^{That beeing said. Its pretty clear, what the oppinion of George is. Especially after this episode. :P}

[Reek the Turncloak]

Even if there was no clue, why would Ramsay not castrate Theon? He tortured him, he humiliated him any way he could, so I don't think he would just forget about taking "his most precious part" or at least using it to torture him even more.

[WCYarb]

There is no way it was unintentional. You're underestimating GRRM ;) All of the house words are extremely important for the characters. If they choose the right path, their house words will lead them to prosperity, if not, their house words will come back to haunt them. 'Winter is Coming...' aka, death is coming. As it does for Ned, in the RW etc. If you look at the unofficial Lannister words, 'A Lannister Always pays his debts', same is happening. Each of them are 'paying' for their previous crimes, or, use it to seek revenge.

Huh - I had never put it together, too - but 'Growing Strong' - is pretty much exactly what the Tyrell's have done, every book . .

'Fire and Blood' - Ayup

[Envie]

Wow, who knew there were so many adamant supporters of Theon's genitals still being intact. I'm not sure what the obsession is with this despite all of the written text from the book that supports the fact he's got nothing down there. He SAID "but... I've got no ..." and Ramsay cut him off (HA HA see what I did there?!) -- ahem -- Ramsay interrupted him and told him to service the girl with his tongue instead.

How can you not read that passage from the book and still think Theon's intact?

[I'll pay the iron price]

Theons willy is history!

I love Ramsay's horn blowing - funny as hell to watch

[Young Nan]

Wow, who knew there were so many adamant supporters of Theon's genitals still being intact. I'm not sure what the obsession is with this despite all of the written text from the book that supports the fact he's got nothing down there. He SAID "but... I've got no ..." and Ramsay cut him off (HA HA see what I did there?!) -- ahem -- Ramsay interrupted him and told him to service the girl with his tongue instead.

How can you not read that passage from the book and still think Theon's intact?

I'm definitely not adamant about it, I think he most likely is without a penis now. I just like talking about Theon's manhood.

[SilentSense]

If it weren't already gone, surely Theon's penis would be ripped off from all the fans that apparently cling on to it for dear life

[Angmar]

It's pretty obvious it's gone. :( No little Greyjoys from Theon's in the next generation.

The only thing I didn't like much in the scene was Ramsay's jet about "how women don't like Theon". That dumb scene with Ros in season 1 aside, I thought Theon was a ladies' man overall, the women went for him. Was it changed for him in the show to be a dweeb that only whores took? Blergh.

[RottenAppleFossoway]

"Something" happened to Theon's penis in the book. It was pretty obvious to me when reading ADWD. Whether or not it was full castration, flayed whatever, something permanent definitely happened.

Personally, I think it was first flayed, and then there was another "cut it off!" moment. I mean, think about who we're dealing with here. The bastard of Bolton is batshit insane, sadistic, evil in every imaginable way. It's the kind of thing he would do for sure.

[Tori Targaryen]

Huh - I had never put it together, too - but 'Growing Strong' - is pretty much exactly what the Tyrell's have done, every book . .

'Fire and Blood' - Ayup

Yep, it can be attributed to every family in one way or another.

[Maxthestig]

What are peoples views on Iwan Rheon?

I'm a bit disappointed. IS anyone else ?

[Cas Stark]

What are peoples views on Iwan Rheon?

I'm a bit disappointed. IS anyone else ?

Yes, after so many people built him up, he doesn't have much screen presence, let alone any kind of a real sadistic vibe malevolent vibe about him, but that could be weird way they've been writing and directing the segments. He's like a happy go lucky really boyish individual who likes to torture people, but that whole brooding, malice 'oh my god, he's having a bad day' vibe is not present.

[Tori Targaryen]

I think he plays the part of a slimy, sadistic little creep pretty well

[Dove]

Rheon's pretty alright to me. He can definitely do the creepy+oddly funny/mischevious dickhead angle quite well, but they haven't really shown another side of him yet. We haven't gotten to see Ramsay's temper or absolutely crazed malevolence yet and he lacks the larger stature and physicality of the character in the books, so we'll just have to wait and see if he can be as intimidating of a figure. Hopefully he can.

[Khalessi]

What are peoples views on Iwan Rheon?

I'm a bit disappointed. IS anyone else ?

Really I think him and Alfie's acting have been the best thing about this arc. I've been dissapointed with the way they have handled some of the toruture aspects. Theon not being able to guess who is flaying him, along with the 2 girls being willing participants in his torture and seem to be enjoying it as much as Ramsay etc. However, as far as how Iwan himself is portraying the character I really like it. It mayby a bit different from book Ramsay, but there is something about his crazy eyes and the sarcastic way he delivers his diaolouge that I absolutely love.

[Envie]

Rheon's pretty alright to me. He can definitely do the creepy+oddly funny/mischevious dickhead angle quite well, but they haven't really shown another side of him yet. We haven't gotten to see Ramsay's temper or absolutely crazed malevolence yet and he lacks the larger stature and physicality of the character in the books, so we'll just have to wait and see if he can be as intimidating of a figure. Hopefully he can.

I agree. I think the actor is doing a great job with the material he's given so far, but from the book Ramsay we had a much more volatile individual who didn't really get along with anyone, not even his Father and pretty much did as he pleased and harmed a lot of people for fun. We've not seen that side of the character in the series yet, but I have no doubt Iwan Rheon can pull it off if they do let him off the leash in future episodes or seasons.

I also don't really care for the addition of the whores for Theon's 'gelding' session. Though I've not really had an big issues with the sex scenes or use of 'whores' who weren't in the books being put into the show for 'titillating' (haha I kill myself) drama fun, I really don't think the whores in this particular scene added anything to the already terrifying torture scene and furthermore it seems to lessen Ramsay's character somewhat by changing his motivations from the books. I would have rather they used *real* bitches (dogs) than the women.

[Cas Stark]

I just rewatched that segment and the two women were smirking up a storm after Ramsey came in, which to me is inexplicably strange and disturbing.