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[book spoilers] Theon's manhood


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Tell me some different ways to interpret the passage that Envie keeps referencing.

It could be:

I have no "right"

or

I have no "erection"

*shrug* ... he probably has no penis, as sad as that makes me, but GRRM was super vague / dodgy about it.

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What are peoples views on Iwan Rheon?

I'm a bit disappointed. IS anyone else ?

I really disagree. Everyone is raving about his amazing performance. It's a really hard character to pull of and in my and the majority's opinion he's doing it really well. People are CREEPED OUT. Which is the goal. If he was like serious and brooding it would be so boring and predictable. This way, being giddy but at the same time so evil is actually much more scary to me he's got a lot of layers and is not a one dimensional character. Very unpredictable. Plus we have yet to see what he's fully like....once he has a 'normal' conversation/interaction with Theon or anyone else we'll find out.

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I really disagree. Everyone is raving about his amazing performance. It's a really hard character to pull of and in my and the majority's opinion he's doing it really well. People are CREEPED OUT. Which is the goal. If he was like serious and brooding it would be so boring and predictable. This way, being giddy but at the same time so evil is actually much more scary to me he's got a lot of layers and is not a one dimensional character. Very unpredictable. Plus we have yet to see what he's fully like....once he has a 'normal' conversation/interaction with Theon or anyone else we'll find out.

The risk here is overplaying the character so he comes off just totally cartoony (like he basically does in the books). Rheon is doing more justice to the character than it deserves. He's perfectly creepy and disturbing without going over the top. I also just laughed to myself that the man torturing Theon's last name is Rheon.

Off-topic, but I'm familiar with the name Ewan or Eoughan/Eogan but not Iwan...Is it pronounced the same?

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At this point there's just a lot more evidence for than against, as terrible as it is for the character I'm surprised it's even a debate still.

I think the only way it would be more obvious is if Theon turns directly to the camera/addresses the reader and outright says "my junk is gone or mutilated to the point of being unusuable." Sorry Theon.

The only question I had from the book was asking myself if of the two dangly bits:

1. Did he take one or the other? Which one?

2. Did he take both?

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Speaking of Theon's torture...this morning I had an impacted wisdom tooth removed. It was done with local anesthetic which started to wear off during the procedure. The scenes of Theon's torture this season kept running through my head over and over. It did help some..."yeah this hurts like hell, but at least I'm not Theon".

This quote sort of of blew my mind because I'm both a dentist and a GoT fan...I sincerely hope none of my patients have Ramsay/Theon flashbacks while I'm working on their teeth tomorrow! Oh, about the thread topic...I'm almost 100 percent sure that Theon is now part of an exclusive club that includes Grey Worm, Varys, and Strong Belwas.

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This quote sort of of blew my mind because I'm both a dentist and a GoT fan...I sincerely hope none of my patients have Ramsay/Theon flashbacks when I'm working on their teeth tomorrow! Oh, about the thread topic...I'm almost 100 percent sure that Theon is now part of an exclusive club that includes Grey Worm, Varys, and Strong Belwas.

Not to mention the 7,999 other Unsulled with Danaerys and the god knows how many Illyrio has. I guess it's not that exclusive :P

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When it comes to heinous acts of cruelty, I don't picture Ramsay half-assing anything. Poor Theon lost it all.

I don't disagree. However consider this:

Flaying the skin implies a certain patience and intent to prolong and maximize the pain. Consider that amputation is considered a 'boon' he says Theon will beg for.

With that in mind, I'd be very surprised if he simply went in and 'removed the offending article'. Sorry for the impending imagery, but I'd imagine the flaying continued there as well. Ramsay seems the type to peel and heal only to peel some more.

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Not to be too graphic, but I kinda thought that the men in this world are uncircumcised. That makes me wonder if Ramsey circumcised him first (which of course would be extremely painful to an adult) and then came back for the rest after he recovered. Thoughts?

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Flaying his penis would be just about the same as a circumcision or worse if he did the whole thing. I know you're not trying to be graphic but circumcisions are awful for babies and must be absolutely unbearable for adult men especially without any anesthesia ... just sayin'

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I don't disagree. However consider this:

Flaying the skin implies a certain patience and intent to prolong and maximize the pain. Consider that amputation is considered a 'boon' he says Theon will beg for.

With that in mind, I'd be very surprised if he simply went in and 'removed the offending article'. Sorry for the impending imagery, but I'd imagine the flaying continued there as well. Ramsay seems the type to peel and heal only to peel some more.

I think you are certainly right there. I always assumed he continued with the same method as with theons other extremities. also im still surprised people believed theon still had his penis, I was sure it was quite clear, especially for GRRM who likes you to read between the line a lot. the whole idea that theon wouldn't "dare" the touch her (to me) always meant to fear was a larger (and foremost) portion of his thoughts, he would first respond with fear of doing something that would anger Ramsay, then his sense would tell himself afterwards the facts about the situation, like his lack of a Johnson.
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This quote sort of of blew my mind because I'm both a dentist and a GoT fan...I sincerely hope none of my patients have Ramsay/Theon flashbacks while I'm working on their teeth tomorrow! Oh, about the thread topic...I'm almost 100 percent sure that Theon is now part of an exclusive club that includes Grey Worm, Varys, and Strong Belwas.

He actually did a decent job and took care of it in less than an hour I think. Local anesthetic doesn't seem to last very long for me for some reason. My previous dentist I had to get a root canal. It ended up being two 4 hour sessions as they apparently had problems getting all the nerve...or something. He shot me with that needle so many times, and it kept wearing off and he's scraping away inside my tooth with that damn pick. That was freaking crazy painful. And so many x-rays, which kind of made me nervous.

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so i guess the uncertainty is over. grrm even wrote the episode himself.

or do you still consider it a "maybe" in the book universe?

When Theon is talking to the Iron born at Moat Cailin, he thinks to himself that Ramsey took his fingers, toes and "that other thing". So, yeah. I think his lost manhood is cannon.

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It's all but confirmed just by the book alone. It's not really all that vague, IMO the only reason it's not directly alluded to is because GRRM is great at getting you into the mind of the POV character and naturally Theon's going to be evasive about a trauma like that. Of course you're not going to see a passage like,

Gee, I sure do miss my penis, Theon thought wistfully. Things just haven't been the same since [insert gory details here].

Here's a good post on the matter in another thread:

The way GRRM portrays it is psychodrama. Not only do you KNOW that he's been unmanned, but you are also confronted with the impact it has upon him psychologically - so deep that he can't even THINK it to himself. ALL the allusions to this are of course from the Reek POV, but it's just too traumatic for him to confront. His very thinking is full of little tricks of avoidance. It's very powerful but subtle writing.

Not to mention that by keeping us in the dark about what exactly happened, your imagination goes into overdrive and concocts all sorts of brutal, cringe-inducing scenarios - it's the same principle as alluding to something violent on screen but not directly showing it. There's no question that he's unmanned or thoroughly mutilated to the point of no return, the only question is how basically and that's one that doesn't need a direct answer because jesus christ ugh.

edit: formatting, blech

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It's all but confirmed just by the book alone. It's not really all that vague, IMO the only reason it's not directly alluded to is because GRRM is great at getting you into the mind of the POV character and naturally Theon's going to be evasive about a trauma like that. Of course you're not going to see a passage like,

Gee, I sure do miss my penis, Theon thought wistfully. Things just haven't been the same since [insert gory details here].

Yeah basically this. There's no realistic convincing way of making any character explicitly state "Theon of house Greyjoy has no dick anymore since Ramsay cut it off", but apart from that all the clues are there.

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Well I for one am certainly glad they did a 'screen-fades-to-black' when Ramsay with his horrid looking blade and his thugs came to grab Theon off the ground in that scene. Some things are definitely best left to the imagination.

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