Former Lord of Winterfell Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Honestly, this is one on which I think they deserve a pass. Of course, they'd have loved to have all the bannermen, let the audience get to know them a bit, etc.. But the reality is that they've got a limited budget, only ten episodes, and many in an audience who already get too confused about the number of characters. Appeasing readers and viewers both would be extraordinarily difficult under those circumstances.I think it's fair to see what they do in the buildup to the RW next episode before concluding that they've blown it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyful Union Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 No one is going to give a fuck about the RW the way they are so poorly handling it.Ridiculous. You think the majority of tv watchers, who haven't read the books, will not give a shit? There not going to be saying "Its a real shame there wasnt more northern bannermen", or "The leadup to this event was very poor", they'll be saying "oh my god I cant believe the Stark's lost!" or "Holy Shit, Robb and Cat just died"! Robb and Cat do have fans among non bookreaders, whether you believe it or not, and the majority of the audience still expect the Starks to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WardenOfTheNerds Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 They gave Tywin a real war council in both season 1 and 2. Not sure why Robb's council consists of Cat, Bolton, Karstark, Blackfish, Edmure, and Talisa's ass.Hey hey hey, let's not be so quick to exclude Talisa's ass from the councils. Other than that, great post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Honestly, this is one on which I think they deserve a pass. Of course, they'd have loved to have all the bannermen, let the audience get to know them a bit, etc.. But the reality is that they've got a limited budget, only ten episodes, and many in an audience who already get too confused about the number of characters. Appeasing readers and viewers both would be extraordinarily difficult under those circumstances.I think it's fair to see what they do in the buildup to the RW next episode before concluding that they've blown it.They do not deserve a pass. The time spent on Ros, Pod's whore house adventure, Tyrion and Bronn yucking it up, Varys and LF yucking it up, Tyrion and Cersei yucking it up, Talisa's ass shots, could have been spent on Robb having a war council with some people in it who occasionally say some lines.An extra 1 minute an episode would have been a huge improvement, as would maybe having seen the Freys leave the army or mention that they left the army and why a couple of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Ridiculous. You think the majority of tv watchers, who haven't read the books, will not give a shit? There not going to be saying "Its a real shame there wasnt more northern bannermen", or "The leadup to this event was very poor", they'll be saying "oh my god I cant believe the Stark's lost!" or "Holy Shit, Robb and Cat just died"! Robb and Cat do have fans among non bookreaders, whether you believe it or not, and the majority of the audience still expect the Starks to win.I know loads of non book readers who hate Robb and have practically forgotten Cat exists. Yeh, they'll be people that are like ''OMG HOW HORRIBLE'' but there really won't be the same emotional impact. So, nah; I don't think it's ''ridiculous'' to say that their build up to the RW has been very poor thus far, ensuring that a lot of people won't be anywhere near as affected by the show counterpart as they would have been by the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakenfist Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 "I've sent GreatJon to raid the Westerlands gold mines.This is his son SmallJon Umber"Boom, done. How hard was that D&D then give SmallJon a couple of lines every now and then. How hard is that? There's no excuse other than pure laziness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cookie Monster Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 "I've sent GreatJon to raid the Westerlands gold mines.This is his son SmallJon Umber"Boom, done. How hard was that D&D then give SmallJon a couple of lines every now and then. How hard is that? There's no excuse other than pure laziness.That's not true. That's not the only excuse. They also have to use their time and budget for their nudity quota. And of course Pod's sexaventures, Ros' own plots, and Bronn's and Tyrion's "jokes".ETA: oh, and lets not forget the most important storyline of the season: Theon's torture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm_Tim Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 I know loads of non book readers who hate Robb and have practically forgotten Cat exists. Yeh, they'll be people that are like ''OMG HOW HORRIBLE'' but there really won't be the same emotional impact. So, nah; I don't think it's ''ridiculous'' to say that their build up to the RW has been very poor thus far, ensuring that a lot of people won't be anywhere near as affected by the show counterpart as they would have been by the books.No you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 So many things they could have done without and had extra time to give to IMPORTANT PARTS OF THE SERIES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 No you don't.No I don't what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyful Union Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 So, nah; I don't think it's ''ridiculous'' to say that their build up to the RW has been very poor thus far, ensuring that a lot of people won't be anywhere near as affected by the show counterpart as they would have been by the books.You're now saying something fairly different. Them not being as affected as they would have been by the books is not nearly the same as not giving a fuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WardenOfTheNerds Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 That's not true. That's not the only excuse. They also have to use their time and budget for their nudity quota. And of course Pod's sexaventures, Ros' own plots, and Bronn's and Tyrion's "jokes".ETA: oh, and lets not forget the most important storyline of the season: Theon's torture.The porn is pretty much the only thing left in this show that makes me watch it, pls dont get rid of that as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulled Wino Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 This is where you're letting your fanboy-ism interfere with reality. People will care because he's a Stark. Every single non-reader I know is still on Team Stark. If there's one complaint I have about Robb's story is that they haven't put enough focus on why the North is losing the war. They haven't focused on how poor of a decision it was to marry Talisa Lannister. They haven't done enough to illustrate that Tywin is winning the war of politics. One thing I would have done is introduced a political player in KL that was still sympathetic to the Starks to show the political war and to remind everyone that "winter is coming." That way, you connect the importance of Robb's story and the story North of Wall and why the Others matter to everyone including KL. This was also an error by Martin. There's always been a disconnect between the soap opera of KL and the coming of winter.I barely like book Robb and my wife hasnt read the books. She barely cares about the Starks, in fact, she doesnt even mention them, focusing on KL and Dany oretty much exclusively. No monopoly on non-book readers for you my friend. At least you agree the writing is crappy.my fanboyism vs your delusional show apologism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calidad Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 I have to say it's still truly the one thing that I find irksome in an otherwise fantastic adaptation. I have said this a number of times now, but to me the RW will (currently) transpire on screen with the North turning it's back on Robb and his family, not Roose/Freys turning their back on the North. I would love D&D to be asked that question and see their response.Anyway, I imagine it will still play out well on screen. They can have a few no name lords/soliders doing their best to try and protect Robb. It would have been even better if those faces were at least recognisiable.Oh well, no point damning the scene until I've actually seen it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulled Wino Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Only to you. The Umbers would have made the action the scene better. The whole "protect the king" hide behind the table part, but few would care about their death. 2 main characters are about to die, and more importantly the North's chances of winning the war. That's enough for impact. In fact, it might be too much and turn people off. Many people watch the show because they want the Starks to win. They might leave when they see the Starks have no chance. GRRM tends to be overly heavy handed. Subtlety isn't one of his traits.only to him and me.The north has already lost the war in the show, they're doomed. Robb has already been betrayed, his only allies are Riverlords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precursor Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 If the issue really is "Robb doesn't have people bannerman following him." I don't think their previous absence precludes their appearance at the RW. For me, honestly what stood out most about some of the bannerman was their actions at the RW. Prior to that frankly I didn't care a whole helluva lot about most of them. Now I may very well be in a small minority, and I'll grant that his war councils do seem terrible. Seriously he decided a major campaign while showing his wife where she calls home is that should send up some major warning flags that YOUR DOING IT WRONG. I hope we do get to see a return of many/most/some of Robb's bannerman so that some of their actions may be preserved, and we see that while Robb has made some gigantic screwups he is still relatively popular and has an umber of allies. I could perfectly buy an excuse of "I was raiding/holding X position/Sieging/Pillaging good to see you again my King to explain their absence." I'm not even require them to be named to much if they at least are similar to some of the book characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 You're now saying something fairly different. Them not being as affected as they would have been by the books is not nearly the same as not giving a fuck.Yeh...that was just a casual throw away comment made about of disdain. I really didn't think people would pick up ''don't give a fuck'' as some valid criticism of the show. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulled Wino Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Honestly, this is one on which I think they deserve a pass. Of course, they'd have loved to have all the bannermen, let the audience get to know them a bit, etc.. But the reality is that they've got a limited budget, only ten episodes, and many in an audience who already get too confused about the number of characters. Appeasing readers and viewers both would be extraordinarily difficult under those circumstances.I think it's fair to see what they do in the buildup to the RW next episode before concluding that they've blown it.isnt the red wedding the most important part of this season? Now you want to see if they can pull it out in the last 2 seasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Lord of Winterfell Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 isnt the red wedding the most important part of this season? Now you want to see if they can pull it out in the last 2 seasonsI don't think it needs to be "pulled out". It's been set up pretty well so far. The only complaint is "maybe his other lords won't be there", and I think you need to see what they do the next episode before concluding that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulled Wino Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Honestly, this is one on which I think they deserve a pass. Of course, they'd have loved to have all the bannermen, let the audience get to know them a bit, etc.. But the reality is that they've got a limited budget, only ten episodes, and many in an audience who already get too confused about the number of characters. Appeasing readers and viewers both would be extraordinarily difficult under those circumstances.I think it's fair to see what they do in the buildup to the RW next episode before concluding that they've blown it.Dbl post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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