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[Book Spoilers] Ramsay's Two Women (Continued)

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Continuing the previous discussion about the two women Ramsay used on Theon before the gelding.

Here is the last post:

The previous Theon scene was utterly perfect. This one was O_o ... the idea was fine but the execution... :bang: The best moments were Theon's cowering at the horn and Ramsay clocking him with it.

Yeah, Book Ramsay is the kind of psychopath who often can't control himself. It seems like Show Ramsay is the kind who usually can, like a more brutal Hannibal. I'm curious to see if he has book!Ramsay's same nobility hangup. For now, I'm calling his show incarnation thespian!Ramsay.

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I dunno if the women were a good call, not only did lots of people think that the two of them wouldn't be so cool about it, but in my opinion it just wasn't necessary to have them just touching each other and dry humping Theon for like ages... seriously the whole scene was 5 min and like 30 seconds.... there were much better way they could have used the air time.. IMO they are always going to have nudity scenes, and that's not really a problem with me, but they really need to find a more constructive way to use these scenes with some dialogue.. make it worth everyone's while

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The scene was terrible. It was too long. The girls were too happy about it. It would have been a little bit better if they were scared of Ramsay, or with wounds or something. That scene wasn't necessary. Time wasted.......

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The only thing that saved it for me was Iwan Rheon's Ramsay (i could watch him forever). But yeah, it was just too long, they take screen time from important plot archs and waste it on torture porn.

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Apart from the gratuitous nudity and logical inconsistencies in Ramsey's character, there are those facepalmingly awful lines..

"Oh, he thinks we're ugly!"

"You know how shy these religious girls can be"

No. Please, no.

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I like the idea using women instead of dogs as Ramsays bitches but the scene could have been done better.

Ramsay doing a Viet Cong on Theon would have been better (truss him up, pull his pants down then hand the knife to a woman to do "The honours")

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Apart from the gratuitous nudity and logical inconsistencies in Ramsey's character, there are those facepalmingly awful lines..

"Oh, he thinks we're ugly!"

"You know how shy these religious girls can be"

No. Please, no.

Like a bad porn, since they have lots of porn or exporn actors, do they have porn film writers too?

I like the idea using women instead of dogs as Ramsays bitches but the scene could have been done better.

Ramsay doing a Viet Cong on Theon would have been better (truss him up, pull his pants down then hand the knife to a woman to do "The honours")

It would have been more in line with Ramsay if a scarred girl was brought in and he tells her castrate him or I castrate you. Maybe they didnt want to get hate mail if they showed what ramsay does to woman.

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It would have been more in line with Ramsay if a scarred girl was brought in and he tells her castrate him or I castrate you. Maybe they didnt want to get hate mail if they showed what ramsay does to woman.

True, apparently HBO were worried about Jack Gleeson (Joffrey) recieving hate mail and his scenes arent as evil!

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True, apparently HBO were worried about Jack Gleeson (Joffrey) recieving hate mail and his scenes arent as evil!

Yes thanks to morons that can tell TV from real life. I guess the hunting is out, ramsay could have been the greatest tv villain of all time.

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I'll take what I wrote in the nitpick thread and put it here:

This last week would have been much better if a sweet and frightened girl came into release Theon, saying that she got away from the boy and they could escape. Hell, if they wanted her to be naked from Ramsay's torture, go ahead with it, just don't make it sexy. The two run off, Ramsay chases them down in typical fashion with his dogs. Something terrible happens to the girl and then Ramsay brings back Theon and then the truly horrifying castration happens.

My issue with last week was less with the gratuitous nudity (it's an issue though) and more with the fact that these two hot, naked giggly scheming girls come to fuck Theon and even bring out the "religious girl" cliche. Not only that, but they seem to be having a great time helping out Ramsay the ladies man. When I read some of the stuff about Ramsay I was a bit frightened. This, however, took me out of the mood entirely. One of the worst parts is that it was filmed in a way where the audience was supposed to be aroused by this scene (a weird way to meet boob quota), which is all kinds of wrong. That takes me out of being terrified and turns me into, "really? this is supposed to frighten me?" They cheapened the whole scene to meet boob quota.

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I'll take what I wrote in the nitpick thread and put it here:

This last week would have been much better if a sweet and frightened girl came into release Theon, saying that she got away from the boy and they could escape. Hell, if they wanted her to be naked from Ramsay's torture, go ahead with it, just don't make it sexy. The two run off, Ramsay chases them down in typical fashion with his dogs. Something terrible happens to the girl and then Ramsay brings back Theon and then the truly horrifying castration happens.

My issue with last week was less with the gratuitous nudity (it's an issue though) and more with the fact that these two hot, naked giggly scheming girls come to fuck Theon and even bring out the "religious girl" cliche. Not only that, but they seem to be having a great time helping out Ramsay the ladies man. When I read some of the stuff about Ramsay I was a bit frightened. This, however, took me out of the mood entirely. One of the worst parts is that it was filmed in a way where the audience was supposed to be aroused by this scene (a weird way to meet boob quota), which is all kinds of wrong. That takes me out of being terrified and turns me into, "really? this is supposed to frighten me?" They cheapened the whole scene to meet boob quota.

The result of the scene was good - we know that Theon was gelded (is that a proper term?), and that now even his body won't let him have hope anymore. Having said that, I agree with everything you said. They filmed it in a way that we were supposed to look at and appreciate the bodies of the two women. It just makes me want to Tyrion-slap D&D, or whichever one made the comment that he "represents the perverts of the audience." Well guess what D&D, you guys are the perverts, not us.

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Didn't GRRM write this scene?

I mean I get the sentiment because that one interview where the director mentioned the "perv producer" sounded dumb and skeevy as hell and D&D have made some missteps of their own but blaming them for a scene someone else wrote seems a little disingenuous.

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The actresses were still cast for those specific roles. And boob quota will be filled regardless of what George writes. That's why the pervy producer is there. He makes sure those scenes get in the show no matter what.

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I thought that the scene was effective. Is it different from the book and does it develop Ramsay a bit differently? Yes. Is there a boob quota that must be filled? Probably. But this accentuates what is about to happen to Theon, it highlights his famous schlong in the presence of those he would no doubt enjoy using it on. Not anymore. But Ramsay is there, fondling the girls ass while Theon grovels. Ramsay is the cock of the walk now. It wouldn't surprise me if Ramsay has sex with the girls in front of Theon (minus his member) in the next scene to taunt him. Maybe then, he'll flay the girls in front of him, too.

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The scene was effective, certainly. My problem is that it was drawn out, and filmed in such a way that we, as viewers, were supposed to feel sexual desire for the women. Not necessarily fear for Theon. I would have appreciated it more if they used a woman to break Theon out, then later in the episode they show them having sex only to have Ramsay watching from a hidden point and coming up to do the deed. Not perfect, but it wouldn't be as forced.

Having said that, I think both actors (Theon and Ramsay, not the women) are doing their roles excellently. The problem (as it has tended to be) lies more with writing/directing.

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I didn't care, it made me laugh. I knew the Bastard was just trolling Theon again, and the horn made the scene worth it.

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I knew the Bastard was just trolling Theon again, and the horn made the scene worth it.

I agree with you there. All in all the scene didn't draw too many complaints for me, but as a tough critic--and lover of the much-cut backstory--I have a general problem with long scenes of forced nudity.

In the end, this scene didn't make my shit list :P

But that one with Mel and Gendry--where Mel goes and contradicts her reasoning for getting naked in the first place--really bothered me.

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