[BOOK SPOILERS] Season 5 episode 9 event?

[Peasant Rebel Leader]

To those who say I'm wrong about the Battle of the Wall being the season 4 episode 9 event... Well, you might be correct. But Blackwater received a lot of praise, so I think D&D might try to emulate some of that success when they see an opportunity to. And I swear I read an interview where they were being asked about Blackwater, and they mentioned that there was an even larger battle coming up, and they seemed to suggest it would be the Battle of the Wall (unless I was reading too much into it). Blackwater was a costly episode, so I think if we have another episode which is even bigger, they would want to make it "event television", which like it or not, episode 9 has become the slot for.

That's a very good argument and it would stall Jons story for later seasons which gives the Southern storylines more time to 'catch up'. Also, Stannis needs some time to prepare to arrive in the North. And you showed that there's material for Jon. But is it enough to not make it too repetitious. Can you announce an attack in s3e4 (or around there) and have it only play out ~15 episodes later? I don't think the battle will be the start, but it's also not a satisfying season end for Jon since the situation doesn't change for him. What is a change is him being elected Lord Commander and I don't think you can satisfyingly pull that off in one episode? (Especially as there's the other storylines to account for as well). So I'd rather see ep 7 or 8 for the battle (which would put Tyrion's execution as the cliffhanger for episode 9!).

But all in all, I feel we need to see how season 3 ends for the North first.

Tyrion's season 5 story can go like this:

snip

This outline does streamline a lot of his 'adventures' like looking at turtles and staring at Lemore bathing, but it does make his story more fast-paced.

Sure, it does. But your season is choke full for him. There's only one or two slow talk episodes for him in the beginning. It's certainly possible, but I'm not sure if that doesn't take too many minutes away from other storylines. We'll see ;-)

[Queen of Whores]

Sure, it does. But your season is choke full for him. There's only one or two slow talk episodes for him in the beginning. It's certainly possible, but I'm not sure if that doesn't take too many minutes away from other storylines. We'll see ;-)

As we've seen, the non-readers love Tyrion and aren't exactly the most patient people in the world. I really can't see another good, conclusive place to end Tyrion's arc that isn't the beginning of the siege of Meereen and a return of Tyrion's old witty and cunning side. The sighting of the slaver ship or the big storm are 'big' moments I suppose, but both would seem like cheap cliffhangers for an episode, let alone a season, and aside from one or two occasions, the show doesn't really do cheap cliffhangers.

I don't really see the show limiting Tyrion from being the overall 'main' character, especially since they haven't for season 3, where going by the book make Arya, Jon or Catelyn should have had the most screen time, but that hasn't happened. I agree that we need a lot of time to focus on other stories, but D&D love Tyrion so I don't see them putting his story to the side of anybody else.

[Rishav Banka]

Battle of wall can't possibly be the ep 9. Season 3 has 2/3 of aSoS and season 4 has 1/3 of SoS and 1/3 of FfC. Battle of the wall happens in SoS , So it should be in first half of the season 4. However, I understand there are lots of other major events to cover too.

They probably won't show conquest of Meereen as prominently as Battle of blackwater(Which was one full episode), Since the conquest itself doesn't mean much ( except for the ingenuity of Dany of using ships as rams). And they probably won't show two major battle scenes in the same season.

Season 4's ep 9 event will probably be a combination of Oberyn vs The mountain AND the kingsmoot.

[Peasant Rebel Leader]

Oh yes, I do agree with your ending point, I just think that you need 12-14 episodes for that. Alternatively, one could cut a little and have Dany flying away be the last moment. But that only yields one more episode. I'm not sure how viable your set up is in production, minutes and budgetary terms for a show, as I'm no expert in that either. ;) What I would do however is a) cut the travels and have Tyrion 'beam' to Volantis, meet the Stonemen, Aegon, Griff and the Golden Company all there. It might be a bit clunky, but there's nothing really valuable on the Rhoyne anywas. And B) maybe start a little bit later. You can conceivaly push the Pentos bits to the previous season finale. Though I am not sure if that works or not. But imho, though he is the main character, the story needs to breathe a little.

[KamiShikkaku]

I don't think the battle will be the start, but it's also not a satisfying season end for Jon since the situation doesn't change for him. What is a change is him being elected Lord Commander and I don't think you can satisfyingly pull that off in one episode? (Especially as there's the other storylines to account for as well). So I'd rather see ep 7 or 8 for the battle (which would put Tyrion's execution as the cliffhanger for episode 9!).

Stannis offering Jon Winterfell would make for a satisfying ending. The LC stuff can happen in the first couple episodes in season 5, maybe with a hint from Sam in the season 4 finale.

Battle of wall can't possibly be the ep 9. Season 3 has 2/3 of aSoS and season 4 has 1/3 of SoS and 1/3 of FfC. Battle of the wall happens in SoS , So it should be in first half of the season 4.

That's a pretty terrible argument. It presumes that the timeline of the show will be exactly the same as the timeline of the books, which it doesn't as long as the important character encounters can take place. The battle for the wall does not directly effect any main characters other than Jon, Sam, and Stannis/Davos/Mel. All but Jon can be omitted or given filler scenes (as they already have been this season) for several episodes if there's not enough for them to do for the start of next season. And as I showed in my last post, there's plenty for Jon to do.

I'm talking myself into it more and more, so here's my prediction:

S4E8: Ends with the Red Viper vs. the Mountain.

S4E9: Fully dedicated to the battle of the wall, the same way season 2 episode 9 was fully dedicated to the battle of Blackwater.

S4E10: Ends with Tyrion killing Shae and Tywin and getting on the boat to Pentos.

[Hiram McDrogon]

S4E9: Fully dedicated to the battle of the wall, the same way season 2 episode 9 was fully dedicated to the battle of Blackwater.

I think we should be wary of assuming there will ever be an episode completely dedicated to a battle again. The Blackwater was so huge in Season 2 because that's where so many storylines converged: everything in King's Landing, everything Tywin was doing, all Littlefinger's machinations, what was once Renly's camp, Stannis's group: they all met at the Blackwater. I don't think there's another scene in the books where so many stories converge (yet, anyway: the Meereen scene when Tyrion nearly meets Dany is the only thing that comes anywhere close as best I can recall). The Battle of the Wall will "just" have the Night's Watch, Mance et al (who knows if Tommen and Ygritte will be involved), and Stannis's group. Don't get me wrong: it could be a fantastic scene. But I don't think it's enough material to justify a full episode, because it doesn't entwine enough story arcs.

The show in general isn't showing battles for the sake of battles: what we see instead are the character moments that happen with the battles as a backdrop. Wildfire's cool and all that, but what's more interesting (to me anyway) are the reactions of Tyrion, Joffrey, Stannis, Davos, and so on.

It amuses me that some people in this forum apparently expect the battle of the wall to come this season - in episode 10, I guess - and others place it at the end of S4. I'd be surprised but not shocked if we do see it this season: as absurd as it'd be for Stannis et al to get to the Wall in time, Melisandre's already got a track record of moving across Westeros pretty damn fast. Additionally, Stannis/Davos don't have that much more to do before they head off north: argue about sacrificing Gendry, get a letter, and, um, anything else? If Sam had gotten those letters off back in S02E01, I'd expect the Battle of the Wall this season, but I assume Pippin's got to light the beacons Sam or Jon's got to send the letters before Stannis can ride off north.

But this is all really far astray from the SEASON **5** episode 9 event, which is, ahem, the topic of the thread. And for that, I have no idea, because I suspect we're going to see absolutely massive changes to Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons. I'm kind of hoping for a combo of Dany flying away on Drogon and an early battle against the wights/Others that turns into an absolute rout for our human characters. Not that that's in the books yet or anything (OK, Fist of the First Men, sort of), but I assume something is coming that makes it clear that only the dragons have a chance of dealing with the menace in the north, and if the TV show leaves Puddles'/Shard's bereaved comrades unaddressed as long as GRRM has, audiences are going to get (rightfully, IMHO) annoyed. That army we saw at the end of Season 2 can't just wander around north of the wall working on their corpse-arranging skills for the next four seasons ("Ikebana 401 for Others").

Even in the books the game of thrones is starting to get a bit old for me: I want to get to the ice and fire part.

Or, more likely, they'll bin the "Episode 9 OMG!" approach because it's become too predictable.

[Queen of Whores]

It amuses me that some people in this forum apparently expect the battle of the wall to come this season - in episode 10, I guess - and others place it at the end of S4.

People are saying they think the battle of Castle Black will be 3x10, not the full assault on the Wall. Of course that will be season 4, nobody can debate that. However I don't think it's likely we'll get the Castle Black battle in season 3. Apparently there was a casting video for Styr where he is talking to Ygritte and Tormund, and as Ygritte dies in the battle of Castle Black, this must mean either the Castle Black battle has been entirely cut, or it's happening in early season 4 (a more likely option).

[KamiShikkaku]

There is always the possibility of the attack on Castle Black and the battle of the wall being merged. This would lend credence to my "season 4 episode 9 will focus entirely on the battle of the wall" theory, but I really hope that's not what they decide to do.

[KamiShikkaku]

I think we should be wary of assuming there will ever be an episode completely dedicated to a battle again. The Blackwater was so huge in Season 2 because that's where so many storylines converged: everything in King's Landing, everything Tywin was doing, all Littlefinger's machinations, what was once Renly's camp, Stannis's group: they all met at the Blackwater. I don't think there's another scene in the books where so many stories converge (yet, anyway: the Meereen scene when Tyrion nearly meets Dany is the only thing that comes anywhere close as best I can recall). The Battle of the Wall will "just" have the Night's Watch, Mance et al (who knows if Tommen and Ygritte will be involved), and Stannis's group. Don't get me wrong: it could be a fantastic scene. But I don't think it's enough material to justify a full episode, because it doesn't entwine enough story arcs.

A fair point, but I'm still sticking with the theory. I think the allure of another Blackwater-style episode will be simply too great.

[Hiram McDrogon]

People are saying they think the battle of Castle Black will be 3x10, not the full assault on the Wall. Of course that will be season 4, nobody can debate that.

Mostly that's what people are saying, yeah, but I've seen a few posts here and there arguing that the full assault will be this season - but I suspect that's often because they're not quite remembering the books correctly. And to be honest, the show has set it up to make the full assault seem imminent. If I hadn't read the books, I'd probably be assuming the assault would be coming in one or two episodes; heck, I'd probably be guessing THAT would be the Episode 9 main event that many expect.

Mance is supposed to appear one more time this season, right? I wonder what that'll be.

(Do mods here come in and break apart threads? Does that happen on this forum? This is all very interesting, but has almost nothing to do with Season 5 Episode 9!)

[Lannister Hamster]

I don't think they have to follow the format if the storyline doesn't go that way.

If they re-organize the two books into two series then episode 9 might not be that big. I think AFFC and ADWD will be 2 series anyway.

If they don't then the siege of Mereen is probably the likeliest to make up that chapter - but we don't know what happens so it's a pretty big guess.

[Gannicus]

This series will not stay as true to the books as many of you imagine.

But something I'm certain of is that the battle for Meereen and the battle for Winterfell will be in different seasons for budgeting reasons.

Meereen will be in season 5 and Winterfell season 6.

Dany could fly on Drogon as early as the season 4 finale if truth be told. She plays no part in AFFC and her storyline is dreadfully dull in ADWD. GRRM has written several chapters that we know of for Meereen and Dany is not involved in the battle during the any of the POVs.

[jeffklm]

If it were between Battle of Winterfell and (2nd) Battle of Meereen for S5E9, I would think that Winterfell is more likely, because of how much events need to be covered before the Battle of Meereen with so many storylines converging there. Winterfell will be much easier to streamline; Stannis can march south from the Wall earlier in S5, Reek + Ramsay storyline will (finally) be done. But then again this is assuming too much.

Anyway, I think S4E9 will most likely be Oberyn vs. Mountain, followed swiftly by Tyrion being given the death sentence (by Tywin? they might just drop the plan to get Tyrion to the Wall).

[jeffklm]

I'm talking myself into it more and more, so here's my prediction:

S4E8: Ends with the Red Viper vs. the Mountain.

S4E9: Fully dedicated to the battle of the wall, the same way season 2 episode 9 was fully dedicated to the battle of Blackwater.

S4E10: Ends with Tyrion killing Shae and Tywin and getting on the boat to Pentos.

But yes, I do like this too. It could honestly go either way.

[Weeping Sore]

ASoS should wrap by 405.

AFfC/ADwD should take up no more than 13 episodes (406-508) Battle of Meereen episode 509.

[The_Iron_Captain]

ASoS should wrap by 405.

AFfC/ADwD should take up no more than 13 episodes (406-508) Battle of Meereen episode 509.

There is no chance AsoS is wrapping up by 4x05.

[YuvalTheVal]

ASoS should wrap by 405.

AFfC/ADwD should take up no more than 13 episodes (406-508) Battle of Meereen episode 509.

I think you forget just how much happens in the last 400 pages of ASoS. definetly enough for a whole season.

[Cruella]

Some characters storyline from ASOS might very well wrap up by then (Arya?). But others can be easily stretched for entire season, especially KL intrigue, especially with all the added scenes we're likely to get (don't imagine they'll pass up on Cersei-Brienne meeting for example).

[YouSnowNothing]

I think people overestimate how much episode 9 is the "big stuff" that takes up most of the episode. That's not always the case - Ned's death in episode 9 is important and shocking, but I'd argue that Dany's dragons in episode 10 is a more important event to the series as a whole, and either way, Baelor's steps is simply tagged onto the end of an episode full of other stuff, it's the cliffhanger but it's not the focus. The RW will be similar - it'll just be a regular wedding until the last 5-10 minute sequence when everything goes to shit, it won't be an all-encompassing event like Blackwater*. Season 4 will not climax with the Battle of the Wall, with Stannis' arrival, his offer to Jon, the LC election and all Sam's scheming, there's simply not room for that in one episode. Stannis will probably arrive around episode 6/7. That and the PW (probably around ep 2/3) are the "biggest" events of S4, the climaxes will be smaller-scale character moments that wrap up arcs - Tyrion's crossbow, Jon being elected, Valar Morghulis, the Moon Door... and I'd put money on 4x09 to include Tyrion/Tywin, and to have a similar structure to 1x09 - Tyrion's fate will be decided in an earlier episode, and the episode is spent mostly setting up the climax of other storylines outside of KL, until the last 10-15 minutes when Jaime turns up to rescue Tyrion.

*In fact, there's nothing else in the books like Blackwater, which featured continuous set-up and action sequences, and 6/7 major characters. The Siege of Meereen may be similar, but if it is then there's certainly not room for it in S5 (in fact I think it's going to be a fairly complex plot involving the Dothraki, the dragons and Vic's dragon horn, probably not resolved until the middle of TWOW).

Back to the question - I think it's hard to guess exactly. There are so many disparate storylines that they will not be able to all climax at once. We can look at S3 for inspiration. S1 was pretty small-scale, S2 had a lot of different characters converging for Blackwater - S3, with its more disparate plotlines, has solved the problem by staggering the climaxes. Jaime and Brienne were done in ep7, the KL plot is basically finished in ep8 with the Tyrion/Sansa marriage, the North will be done for good in ep9, then ep10 mops up the rest. S5 will be similar. I'm thinking something like:

508 - Climax of the Eastern storylines - Quentyn tries to steal a dragon, Daenerys escapes on Drogon, Maester Aemon dies

509 - Climax of Southern storylines - Cersei is arrested, Brienne is tried by Lady Stoneheart, Jaime gets Edmure to yield

510 - Climax of Northern storylines - Theon escapes Winterfell and reunites with Yara, Jon gets stabbed - wrapping up of everywhere else.

I'm sure 510 will be Northern-based, as Jon's "death" is a perfect cliffhanger, and Theon's story ends nicely with him seeing Yara again and remembering his name (though the escape itself could also fit in episode 9). The Eastern and Southern storylines need more wrapping-up in the immediate episodes following - the setting-up of the situation in Meereen, Daenerys meeting the Dothraki, Jaime reading Cersei's letter and being fetched by Brienne.

But yeah, I don't think there's room in the season to push the battles of Meereen or Winterfell forward. So there's no one big event to base the season around, ala Blackwater, but that's fine. There will be multiple staggered climaxes of various disparate character arcs, in the style of seasons 1, 3 and 4.

[Weeping Sore]

There is no chance AsoS is wrapping up by 4x05.

If 7 seasons is accurate (check the thread-sorry no link), they'll pretty much have to. I think by 310, we'll be roughly 2/3 through ASoS, so 5 episodes next season should do it.