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[BOOK SPOILERS] Discussing Sansa II


Mladen

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The wedding itself didnt bother me, it was the fact she knelt that really pissed me off. The whitewashing of Tyrion only mildly bothered me but now im pretty angry. It took away Sansa's silent defiance and man...most unhappy. Im usually pretty chill with changes even big ones, but this really small change was a really big one for me. I did NOT like it and and was ready to flip tables. Otherwise, i feel her characterization is going fine. She showed a lot of strength in the bedroom scene, but it doesnt make up for the kneeling. If it hadnt been for that seemingly minor change, the wedding itself would have been spectacular.

I thought it was perfect. Since Tyrion is a saint on the show it would have just made Sansa look like bitch picking on the honorable handsome dwarf, not like she is defying the Lannisters.

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'm happy for the small things: her telling Tyrion that he can't understand how she feels, and later on when she makes clear she may never want to sleep with him.

She showed a lot of strength in the bedroom scene, but it doesnt make up for the kneeling.

I have to say that I did not catch the bedroom dialogue. I was still to upset about the kneeling and frankly I was uncomfortable with how far they would go and just couldn't keep focused even though I know legally that it wouldn't have been too far. I'm glad for the defiance in the bedroom, but it feels a bit too little, too late.

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I don't understand her age. I thought she was 16 by now. Is Rob 18? Bran doesn't look at all 10. I think they really shouldn't bring it up on the show because it doesn't make sense.

I agree. I thought they were aged up for the show too.

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Sophie Turner is 17. But having Sansa as 14 is a little off due to how tall and grown up she looks. Making her 16 would have been ok.

she would have been too old to be referred to as a child though.

16 is legal in most countries. It would diminish the creepiness of the scene and further LF scenes imo

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My problem with the scene was that Sansa looked more pleased about it than she should be, as though she just realised that she was very lucky she was marrying the best Lannister and she should be grateful for that. Her situation in the show is pretty much "unless is not Joffrey" when in books it's more like "it could be worst but is still pretty bad", she has accepted, but she's miserable, everybody notices that, even Tyrion himself who later has no idea how to please her, nor even make her smile for a moment.

Many people complains that Sansa is not a "real Stark" but during her wedding, she does behave as a Stark as well as a Tully. She knows she can't escape, as Cersei pointed out, they would take her by force if needed, so, she decides she would act honorably about it by going willingly instead of being dragged or cry but always showing that she was only doing it because it was her duty, not her pleasure, and that's why she doesn't bend the knee not help his husband in any way to put the cloack on her, she's giving him, and by implication all the Lannisters, a "I don't f care how you manage to do this, I won't move a muscle" attitude.

This episode didn't give me that impression. They portray Sansa as though she had accepted that she was marrying the best Lannister and she had no problem about it: but of course she had a problem, he was a Lannister. Accepting that marrying a Lannister wasn't "that bad" was accepting that she was in good terms with the family that cut her father's head and were in war with her brother. Didn't Dany implied that things that don't break eventually break? In Sansa's situation, bending would be the proof that the Lannister finally broke her down.

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I am actually greatful that they did not let Tyrion bang her on the tv show. . Sophie is a pretty good Sansa. Lets face it, Sansa is/was a little prat but is sympathetic later on. Tv makes Tyrion look more handsome than book Tyrion. In the Books, Tyrion is grotesque, even before the scar.

People who didn't read the books maybe.

He doesn't have sex with her though, but she goes as far as take off her clothes and get on the bed, with Tyrion next to her. IICR, Tyrion does watch her naked. Now, he stopped her at time.

Tyrion asks Sansa how old she is, and she says 14. To show on tv what would amount to child molestation simply is not going to happen. GRRM can do it in a book, but I'm sure the episode would be attacked if they purported to show a naked 14 year old about to have sex with an older man, married or not. Especially this marriage.

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I'm so so so so mad that they made Sansa kneel for Tyrion. It was HUGE in the books when she didn't. Honestly, it probably spared her even more hate from the fandom, because she'd have been called a bitch even more than she usually is, but still. I can't believe they made her kneel.

I was kinda expecting her to kneel before he had to ask her. Would have tied into the show nicely, after Tyrion is ridiculed by everyone she's kinda understanding and kneels to help him. Cliche or not, would have been a nice fit for the show's progression.

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Sophie Turner is 17. But having Sansa as 14 is a little off due to how tall and grown up she looks. Making her 16 would have been ok.

They kept Sansa's story pretty much on course as far as age goes. Sophie Turner is seems obviously older than fourteen, but in show time the character had her first menstruation within the last few months. Under the laws of a few countries it's illegal to portray certain sexual situations even if the actress is of legal age if the character is not. They might as well say she's younger if they say otherwise anyway.

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Sophie Turner is 17. But having Sansa as 14 is a little off due to how tall and grown up she looks. Making her 16 would have been ok.

I think it's because we saw her 'flower' only last season, so it makes sense that she's pretty young. Highborn girls usually flowered early, even in medievial times. To make Sansa 16 might not have worked in the context, though the actress does look 16/17.

I was kinda expecting her to kneel before he had to ask her. Would have tied into the show nicely, after Tyrion is ridiculed by everyone she's kinda understanding and kneels to help him. Cliche or not, would have been a nice fit for the show's progression.

Doesn't really help Sansa's characterization much, though. There isn't much reason she should be pleased about marrying a Lannister, not when her family was destroyed by Lannisters.

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Tyrion asks Sansa how old she is, and she says 14. To show on tv what would amount to child molestation simply is not going to happen. GRRM can do it in a book, but I'm sure the episode would be attacked if they purported to show a naked 14 year old about to have sex with an older man, married or not. Especially this marriage.

But many have no problem pairing Arya and Gendry, and Arya is way younger than Sansa, nor one of Dany's handmaids saying that she didn't touch a man until she was 12 years old.

I have no problem with how they develop the scene, though.

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I'm so confused when it comes to ages of characters.

Robb in the books is only what, 2 and a half to 3 years older than Sansa, yet on the show, he looks a lot older than 16 and a half or 17 years old.

Hell, Bran looks like he's 14 or 15 years old on the show.

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I just think here, her pov was more with Marg, who counciled her to be a good wife and do her duty. That's it.

Thus, all of Tyrion's interactions are more with his f'ed up family and of course, he's too much of a dwarf-Ned to actually lust after Sansa or the claim to the North. So, he's a paper thin white knight character who belongs in those Lord of the Rings knockoffs George always makes fun of and the Sansa pov is totally muted.

Great tv? As much as the actors can bring. If you like Peter being drunk, its great.

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I thought Sansa played this episode perfectly. The writing for her part was great, and I thought the kneeling was done well. Seems most of the posters on this thread liked that Sansa didn't kneel in the book and didn't want her to in the HBO series, but that was actually one part in the book that made me dislike Sansa for a time there, so I'm glad HBO handled it the way they did. Even without that, Joff had taken the step stool away, so what else were either of them to do? Have Sansa stand there forever with Tyrion jumping up and down to get the cape over her shoulders? There was no Dontos for Tyrion to use as a footstool.

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But many have no problem pairing Arya and Gendry, and Arya is way younger than Sansa, nor one of Dany's handmaids saying that she didn't touch a man until she was 12 years old.

I have no problem with how they develop the scene, though.

People don't have any problem pairing Arya and Gendry because there is nothing explicit there at all. Anything the text refers to on that end is implied and mere potential. The Sansa/Tyrion wedding night is too explicit to show in some countries based on how old she is as a character regardless of how old Turner is.

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I really wish they'd shown more of her during the wedding scene, rather than cut to unrelated characters like Cersei and Marg (sorry, I love Margaery, but this scene was Sansa's). The scene in the books was written from Sansa's POV. They should have made her central during the whole wedding.

I'd scream if the RW was going to be from Talisa's POV and not Cat's.

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