Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ran

[Book Spoilers] EP308 Discussion

Recommended Posts

I think I'm getting in over my head a bit. :)

Would they really postpone the wedding that long? In order for Cersei to get Tommen to appoint Loras to the Kingsguard, this will have to occur after Tywin is dead, which is a long way off.

No, actually, there has already been a substantial change. In the books, the Tyrells simply refused to marry Cersei to Willas, and that was that. In the television series, not only have the Tyrells accepted the marriage, they were forced into it.

I'm sketchy on the timeline of events, but I think Cersei will probably try to postpone it, though I suppose it is somewhat doubtful she could hold out against Tywin for that long. Was Cersei ever actually engaged to anyone in the books? If not, then the whole situation is unprecedented and I wouldn't doubt they'll go through with it, even if it means Loras won't be on the Kingsguard. I think I was reading speculation on how Loras was going to get on the Kingsguard at all when he wasn't appointed after the Blackwater, but that doesn't strictly need to happen ever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sketchy on the timeline of events, but I think Cersei will probably try to postpone it, though I suppose it is somewhat doubtful she could hold out against Tywin for that long. Was Cersei ever actually engaged to anyone in the books? If not, then the whole situation is unprecedented and I wouldn't doubt they'll go through with it, even if it means Loras won't be on the Kingsguard. I think I was reading speculation on how Loras was going to get on the Kingsguard at all when he wasn't appointed after the Blackwater, but that doesn't strictly need to happen ever.

She offered to accept Oberyn Martell, never knowing that Oberyn would have never married her for all the gold in Casterly Rock. So she was never actually engaged. She was offered to Willas, and denied, and then offered to Oberyn, who died before presumably rejecting her as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone else think that they might really go through with the Loras and Cersei wedding? I'm starting to realize it wouldn't really change the plot that much and would even give extra impetus for Jaime's resentment of Cersei as well as an even bigger reason for Cersei sending Loras to Dragonstone.

I'm pretty sure it would have a massive effect on the plot. If they marry then Cersai will become Lady of Highgarden rather than the Queen Regent. She'll be shipped off to the Reach to start making little Tyrell babies with Loras.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, and on he subject of Cersei, I don't think they made her horrible, they just made her bland and boring. A completely passive character with nothing to add. It's that or, as with Jon Snow, the actress is doing an atrocious job.

Yes, Lena Headey is an atrocious actor. Also, Daniel Day Lewis was phoning it in on his Lincoln performance last year. Look man, if you don't like Cersei's character it has nothing to do with Lena's acting. Saying a very accomplished actor is doing an "atrocious" job is so hypercritical it renders any actual or legitimate criticism of the character by you meaningless.

She is easily one of the best actors on the series. My top three would be:

(1) Charles Dance

(2) Michelle Fairley

(3) Maisie Williams or Lena Headey

Edited by Mark the Red

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure it would have a massive effect on the plot. If they marry then Cersai will become Lady of Highgarden rather than the Queen Regent. She'll be shipped off to the Reach to start making little Tyrell babies with Loras.

Only according to the logic of the books. There is no reason they would do the same thing in the television series. As concerns the dynastic effects of such a marriage, they would be mostly mitigated because there is no reason to suspect Cersei will survive into the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why does it matter at all what the remaining members of the Night's Watch think of Sam? When Sam gets back to the Wall, he's going to play politics to get Jon elected (his "slayer status being entirely irrelevant), tell Jon about the dragonglass (Jon will listen because he and Sam are friends), and then depart south. It makes no difference whatsoever if the Night's Watch start calling him Slayer or not. I like that he's developing into a quietly formidable person who is usually underestimated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, Lena Headey is an atrocious actor. Also, Daniel Day Lewis was phoning it in on his Lincoln performance last year. Look man, if you don't like Cersei's character it has nothing to do with Lena's acting. Saying a very accomplished actor is doing an "atrocious" job is so hypercritical it renders any actual or legitimate criticism of the character by you meaningless.

She is easily one of the best actors on the series. My top three would be:

(1) Charles Dance

(2) Michelle Fairley

(3) Maisie Williams or Lena Hedley

I am a fan of Lena Hedley as well but I maintain Charlize Theron would have been perfect. Not only is Cersei her doppelgänger, she basically played a version of Cersei in Snow White and the Huntsman.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also think Kit Harington is a victim of the "Hayden Christensen" effect. Whereby an otherwise decent actor is made to look bad via a weak script or dialogue. Someone commented last week that the real "Jon" came back merely by George R R Martin taking over that episodes script. Why? Because he had some fire in his belly again and talked smack to both Oren and Ygritte.

I'm no literature major, but thats what makes a main character likeable is that the reader/audience can relate to him / her or have similar emotional reactions if placed in the same situation.

I really liked book Jon for that reason. He has a chip on his shoulder at the wall, and for good reason. He was considered the living embodiment of his father's dishonor his entire life, volunteered to go to the wall to live his entire life as a crow to regain some honor for his family, and STILL spends his days being judged by criminals and dumped on continuously by scumbags like Alliser Thorne and Janos Slynt. Oh, and little prospects of getting laid too. But despite all this rage, he keeps his act together and does his duty. Thanklessly. No wonder Stannis and him get along so well.

My favorite part in all the books was the Janos Slynt execution scene. Jon gave him plenty of chances to save himself, but Janos sealed his own fate. He did it calmly , coolly and honorably even though he must have been PISSED at being publicly insulted in front of all his men.

Go Jon Go! (Major aside from the episode 3-08 thread topic)

Edited by Mark the Red

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She is easily one of the best actors on the series. My top three would be:

(1) Charles Dance

(2) Michelle Fairley

(3) Maisie Williams or Lena Hedley

I love Lena and I don't mind the way she's portraying Cersei but there's no way in hell I'd categorize her as a better actor than Peter Dinklage, Diana Rigg, Aidan Gillen, or Conleth Hill......

Edited by Jon Icefyre

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^^

Fair enough. To each their own. I don't particularly care for Aiden Gillen all that much, but I certainly don't see the range from Gillen that I have seen from Lena. But I certainly would not call him atrocious either. That was my point.

Edited by Mark the Red

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was disappointed they showed Stannis naming the three names with the leeches. I think it's going to be obvious to the part of the audience that pays attention what it means.

oh well.

I noticed that too, but so far, none of my friends who hasn't read the books has commented about it. They either didn't pay attention or they simply thought it will be stopped at time. As a viewer, it's a bit shocking to find out they simply will kill two of the main protagonists so far, Joffrey and Robb.

(maybe, they think that Gendry's blood isn't "good" and it won't work).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also think Kit Harington is a victim of the "Hayden Christensen" effect. Whereby an otherwise decent actor is made to look bad via a weak script or dialogue.

No way, I doubt it's written in the script that Jon has to have his mouth hanging open the whole time and that gormless look on his face.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I noticed that too, but so far, none of my friends who hasn't read the books has commented about it. They either didn't pay attention or they simply thought it will be stopped at time. As a viewer, it's a bit shocking to find out they simply will kill two of the main protagonists so far, Joffrey and Robb.

(maybe, they think that Gendry's blood isn't "good" and it won't work).

Did they even state what the leeches meant? Besides, the actor playing Stannis delivered the lines so nonchalantly and slurred it's hard to make out what he actually said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

man is it just me or was Tywin looking particularly dapper today in his leather clothes? Damn that Charles Dance is hot.

Not just you! I also thought he was looking fine as all get out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am a fan of Lena Hedley as well but I maintain Charlize Theron would have been perfect. Not only is Cersei her doppelgänger, she basically played a version of Cersei in Snow White and the Huntsman.

This. I always think of either Charlize or Diane Kruger when reading Cersei. She never has Lena's face, and I do think she's a good actress, but she's not the Cersei I imagined and still imagine.

^^^

Fair enough. To each their own. I don't particularly care for Aiden Gillen all that much, but I certainly don't see the range from Gillen that I have seen from Lena. But I certainly would not call him atrocious either. That was my point.

There. So the other poster was perfectly entitled to say he does't like Headey's acting, since as you put it, to each their own. Geez.

As for Cersei's characterisation, and this is the writing, she has her moments. In the last episode she was great, during most of season 3 she's been a passive bore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not just you! I also thought he was looking fine as all get out.

He looked excellent all channeling his inner Ava Adore Billy Corgan and stuff.

Edited by Vovea

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been wondering about this for some time now. The producers have shown that they don't mind changing the plot around a bit, and as far as I can remember Loras' plot, having them marry wouldn't be any larger of a change than the current Mel + Gendry plot (I'm sure that there are book purists that will say this is incorrect, but anyways). I honestly think it could go either way. Most book readers are assuming they won't be married because it doesn't happen in the books, but I wouldn't put it past them to go through with the wedding just to shock book readers.

So yeah, I think it's a possibility.

I think she will make him Kingsguard of Tommen after the purple wedding, going against her father.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think she will make him Kingsguard of Tommen after the purple wedding, going against her father.

I think Loras will eventually willingly join the Kingsguard to get out of marrying her. He'll be the one rejecting her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×