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[Book Spoilers] EP308 Discussion

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Ned acts like Jon Arryn; he does not act like a Stark. Sansa is the most like Ned.

I think that's a bit of a stretch. I don't see a lot of Ned in Sansa, and even if I did it would be problematic to secondarily connect it to Jon Arryn. Ned was surely influenced by Jon Arryn, and we know that Brandon was considered to have a wildness that is in many Starks. But that wildness is not the only Stark trait. There is also the signature coolness of temperament. Additionally, we have very little information about what Jon Arryn was like, and even less about Lord Rickard.

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I completely disagree with this assessment. As it stands, Arya is the most "Tully" of the Starks, Sansa is the most "Arryn", and Bran is the most "Stark". Just because Sansa acts like a noble lady doesn't mean she's anything like Catelyn; Arya shares most of Catelyn's traits.

Don't make up stuff just because you want sansa to be more than what she is. Everything sansa is she got from her mother, she's the most if not the only 'Tully' child out of the stark children.

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Don't make up stuff just because you want sansa to be more than what she is. Everything sansa is she got from her mother, she's the most if not the only 'Tully' child out of the stark children.

Lol seriously I think you need to re-read the books. Sansa is NOTHING like Catelyn, apart from the fact that she acts like a Lady.

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Don't make up stuff just because you want sansa to be more than what she is. Everything sansa is she got from her mother, she's the most if not the only 'Tully' child out of the stark children.

He's not making anything up, in fact Sansa's resemblance of Ned and Arya's resemblance of Cat has been extensively discussed in the general forum.

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Lol seriously I think you need to re-read the books. Sansa is NOTHING like Catelyn, apart from the fact that she acts like a Lady.

Thank you but I couldn't possibly re-read Sansa's chapters.

He's not making anything up, in fact Sansa's resemblance of Ned and Arya's resemblance of Cat has been extensively discussed in the general forum.

I'm sure there are people that can recite the books backwards and come up with why something is so-and-so but I read the books formed by own opinions and that's not how I saw the stark children, but that's one of the things I like about here everyone has their own opinion even the ones that make no sense :)

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Ned acts like Jon Arryn; he does not act like a Stark. Sansa is the most like Ned.

You have a lot of peculiar ideas.

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Pity.. they changed Stannis'rite with the leeches.

In ASOS Stannis clearly wants Joffrey & Balon's deaths. About the last, Robb, he did it after some hesitation. Looking durably the leech.

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Dany's always been pretty casual about being nude, it didn't seem out of character. Also, where is Mel from? Lys? Was she a bed-slave before she joined up with the Lord of Light? This might have been Carice Van Houten's best-acted scene to date.

Which brings me to my point about the nudity. I have a lot easier time with it when it's a real actor (acting while nude), as in this episode, rather than nudes-for-hire who couldn't act their way out of a paper bag, as in the last one (Ramsay's girls).

Mel was sold as a slave and trained in Asshai, I don't recall if she was sold in Asshai or taken there for her training. I'm under the impression she was sold as a child, but I'm not 100% sure that's backed by the text.

In any event, she doesn't seem to have received prostitute training.

As for Stark or Tully traits, I'm under the idea that Westeros Houses aren't Hogwarts Houses. There aren't genetic traits passed to their children, but rather education and how teenage kids take that education. In any event there are details in the snow castle chapter that point to the idea that Sansa is a northerner through and through, most notably how she opens the windows to get dressed while it's snowing inside, just like Ned did in Winterfell right before Luwin brought Catelyn that message from Lysa.

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Try reading this thread if you're struggling to understand my interpretation.

Sigh. I have no problem saying that Sansa is like Ned. But saying that Ned "doesn't act like a Stark' is just silly. Jon and Robb sure act like Ned in some ways, and they're Starks by blood.

We don't *know* any Starks from Ned's generation and earlier except Benjen. Who knows if being a "Stark" meant you were stern and honorable like Ned or hot-blooded like Lyanna and Brandon. In the books, when Bran was in the crypts with Osha and company, he said the Stark kings had wide ranges of personalities and behaviors--some of the great, some of them awful. There's no single set of behaviors that make someone Stark-y.

The one thing that all the onscreen Starks seem to share is enormous stubbornness, though the wiser Starks can sometimes be seen to yield in their stubbornness in an attempt to save their own life or the lives of their families.

Mel was sold as a slave and trained in Asshai, I don't recall if she was sold in Asshai or taken there for her training. I'm under the impression she was sold as a child, but I'm not 100% sure that's backed by the text.

In any event, she doesn't seem to have received prostitute training.

It's interesting to speculate about how/why Mel is so good in bed. Even in the books, she tells Davos that she will rock his world if she lets her in his bedroom one night. I tend to think it's that she was sexualized at a very early age--and probably abused in the temples. Victims of sexual abuse can sometimes follow two very common paths (there are of course, many exceptions who don't follow either--especially those who get treatment); one, they can grow up to be frigid and traumatized about sex, or they can grow up to be hyper-sexual and are constantly using their sexuality to manipulate others or to feel better about themselves.

Edited by Khal Pono

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Mel saying the lambs never see the knife, many obviously thing that might be foreshadowing (god I hate that word it's so overused) but could it be Tyrion the little lamb that won't see shae's knife?

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I'm not sure why he screamed, actually. From what I have heard leeches produce a numbing agent in their saliva, which is why when you're wading through their natural habitat you often don't feel them attaching to you. But I'll have to google to confirm.

I can confirm that by personal experience. You don't feel them biting at all. Well, at least that's true, if they bite on your ankles, legs or torso. Can't speak for other, more sensitive areas :uhoh:

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I can confirm that by personal experience. You don't feel them biting at all. Well, at least that's true, if they bite on your ankles, legs or torso. Can't speak for other, more sensitive areas :uhoh:

I really want someone on here to do a Lil experiment and see how it really feels, it might be pleasurable.

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Nah, she just isn't a powerful wizard in training like her siblings. As for brains, it looks like Jon is the exception there. Starks are rather dimwitted

What? Putting honor before intelligence doesn't make them dimwitted. Robb quite obviously had a good mind for strategy, winning all his battles against TYWIN. You don't do that by being dimwitted.

Ned figured out the truth about Cersei's children. In the show he had a lot of help from LF for that but in the book he dug a lot more on his own. Not to mention his success in supporting one rebellion and defeating another.

Arya continuously gets out of messes. Weasel Soup is a good example of her using her brain.

Sansa is truly naive, I have no argument against that. But at least by the time she is in the Vale she starts to learn SOMETHING. The show has dumbed her down even more than the books.

Benjen wouldn't get to be first ranger by being stupid.

Bran and Rickon are for the most part still too young to really make a determination. Though honestly the whole dreaming of Ned in the crypts and therefore knowing he was killed is a complicated deduction to make for a child.

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What? Putting honor before intelligence doesn't make them dimwitted. Robb quite obviously had a good mind for strategy, winning all his battles against TYWIN. You don't do that by being dimwitted.

Ned figured out the truth about Cersei's children. In the show he had a lot of help from LF for that but in the book he dug a lot more on his own. Not to mention his success in supporting one rebellion and defeating another.

Arya continuously gets out of messes. Weasel Soup is a good example of her using her brain.

Sansa is truly naive, I have no argument against that. But at least by the time she is in the Vale she starts to learn SOMETHING. The show has dumbed her down even more than the books.

Benjen wouldn't get to be first ranger by being stupid.

Bran and Rickon are for the most part still too young to really make a determination. Though honestly the whole dreaming of Ned in the crypts and therefore knowing he was killed is a complicated deduction to make for a child.

Well, it could be argued that Robb knew what he was getting into when he married Jeyne, so it wasn't his intelligence the one at fault. The bit with Theon is harder - Robb trusts Theon, but has no reason to trust Balon, so keeping Theon is still the smart thing to do.

Loras Tyrell asked Ned to go after the Mountain, which would have put Tyrells against Lannisters, yet Ned decided against it for rather silly reasons, and send an incredibly small force to deal with the Lannister's armies. Granted, he was in pain and sitting in the less ergonomical chair ever invented, but still.

As for Arya, let's take a look at this:

Incredibly good wizard assassin who's expensive enough the Small Council doesn't think they can afford to hire: Hey girl, you've saved my life, so I'll give you three free deaths

Arya: Free? Seriously?

Jaquen: Yep

Arya: Great! Tywin Lannister, Joffrey Baratheon and Stannis Baratheon! King of the North FTW!

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Pity.. they changed Stannis'rite with the leeches.

In ASOS Stannis clearly wants Joffrey & Balon's deaths. About the last, Robb, he did it after some hesitation. Looking durably the leech.

On the show, Robb had made an alliance with Renly via Catelyn, though it's unclear how explicitly Stannis knows that. Might make him less hesitant.

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