[Book Spoilers] EP308 Discussion

[silentwanderer]

They are how coldhands save sam and gilly from th walkers

I agree.

It wasn't Coldhands but those were definitely his crows in the final scene of the episode.

Edited May 21, 2013 by silentwanderer

[Brewmaster]

I completely disagree with this assessment. As it stands, Arya is the most "Tully" of the Starks, Sansa is the most "Arryn", and Bran is the most "Stark". Just because Sansa acts like a noble lady doesn't mean she's anything like Catelyn; Arya shares most of Catelyn's traits.

I know all the arguments, but the audience is flatly told by the Author that Arya is the spitting image and personality of Lyanna Stark. She is not like Ned, it's true. But there is no reason to think that Cat and Lyanna were much like either.

Sansa is probably more like Ned than Arya is, though.

Not sure that any of the kids are particularly "Tully-like", based on what we know of the Tullys. And that's probably not suprising. The Stark kids grew up in the North in Winterfell, which has completely diferent sensibilities than the Riverlands. Cat was a fish out of water there, but the kids all are a part of it.

None of them are much like Edmure, the Blackfish, Lysa, or Cat

Edited May 21, 2013 by Brewmaster

[Ian Pline]

At least I know now that they're going to have to split the book into two seasons, which is probably for the best, content-wise.

[Mulled Wino]

Lol seriously I think you need to re-read the books. Sansa is NOTHING like Catelyn, apart from the fact that she acts like a Lady.

ive read that thread and Arya has traits of Cat over Ned, LyAnna over Cat stc. She's her own character. Arya is a survivor over anything and everything. That is not Cat. Arya and duty and honor? I dont fucking think so. Family yes.

[Cas Stark]

I didn't think it was very ambiguious that Arya Stark had the same wild 'wolf blood' streak that Lyanna and Brandon Stark had....her father says as much, and then there is her resemblance in termperment and skill set to Lyanna Stark as well.

I know Sansa fans like to think she is a Starky Stark, but that's a reach.

[silentwanderer]

At least I know now that they're going to have to split the book into two seasons, which is probably for the best, content-wise.

Its too long to deal with otherwise.

Plus, the story could always be split into "before the wildlings hit Castle Black " and "after the wildlings hit Castle Black".

After all, neither Mance nor Stannis are in position for what should be their greatest battle; the first is MIA and the second is still using leeches to bleed out his nephew in this episode.

Edited May 21, 2013 by silentwanderer

[Tywin's bastard]

I know all the arguments, but the audience is flatly told by the Author that Arya is the spitting image and personality of Lyanna Stark. She is not like Ned, it's true. But there is no reason to think that Cat and Lyanna were much like either.

Sansa is probably more like Ned than Arya is, though.

Not sure that any of the kids are particularly "Tully-like", based on what we know of the Tullys. And that's probably not suprising. The Stark kids grew up in the North in Winterfell, which has completely diferent sensibilities than the Riverlands. Cat was a fish out of water there, but the kids all are a part of it.

None of them are much like Edmure, the Blackfish, Lysa, or Cat

Yes, Arya is definitely very Starkish since she's so closely compared to Lyanna. I don't think Sansa is much Arryn either. I think she's closer to her mother but also so young and spoiled that she hasn't learned all the good traits yet. If they had kept on living in Winterfell I think she would have been molded into a new Cat (as close as children get, as everyone is of course always their own person). All the things she likes are things that Ned doesn't see too much value in so it seems weird to say that she's mainly taking after him. I think he's a big part of why she's spoiled, while she most likely learns a lot more from Cat, which is how it should be as she's supposed to learn how to be a lady and she is pretty good at that (unlike Arya, who is even more spoiled).

[juanml82]

I think Sansa got the education we believe her mother wanted for her lady girl, but she certainly didn't get her rashness and character.

I think Ned and Cat molded her into what they believed a proper southron lady should be, but Cat is not a 'proper' southron lady. She doesn't formally greet Tyrion at the Crossroads Inn, nor does any 'ladylike' stuff. Instead, she acts as a Lord Paramount.

[LordBloodraven]

What's being like Jon Arryn mean? How was Jon Arryn?

[Cybvep]

Here is the most important question ever - what grand wisdom Loras wanted to share with Cersei before she cut him off so politely? ;)

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

What's being like Jon Arryn mean? How was Jon Arryn?

Old, wise, honorable, boring (To Lysa, but can't be entirely for Robert to love him). I guess that's the extent of what we know of him. It's a bit of a reach really to compare people to him.

Edited May 21, 2013 by DarkAndFullOfTurnips

[Ginevra]

I noticed that too, but so far, none of my friends who hasn't read the books has commented about it. They either didn't pay attention or they simply thought it will be stopped at time. As a viewer, it's a bit shocking to find out they simply will kill two of the main protagonists so far, Joffrey and Robb.

(maybe, they think that Gendry's blood isn't "good" and it won't work).

Yeah, we see red herrings in literature and TV so often, especially with dramas, we have grown immune. Each and every week, it seems like this might really be it for The Doctor, or for Gaius Baltar, or for Carrie Mathison, but these hardly even phase us because we know they will not be killing off our heroes and their stars. Those of us who've read the books know that this obviously wasn't the case with GRRM, but I don't think we knew that until after the middle of Book 3, or at least I didn't. I thought Eddard was some kind of fluke. After we lose so many at the Red Wedding, and then Joffrey, and then Tywin, it's obvious that GRRM has no qualms in destroying his beautifully drawn characters.

[Ginevra]

I completely disagree with this assessment. As it stands, Arya is the most "Tully" of the Starks, Sansa is the most "Arryn", and Bran is the most "Stark". Just because Sansa acts like a noble lady doesn't mean she's anything like Catelyn; Arya shares most of Catelyn's traits.

Khal Pono brings up a good point about the Arryns, but I've always thought of Jon and Arya as at least looking the most Stark-like and Sansa looking the most Tully-like. I know looks don't equate to character, but there are other similarities, too, such as Sansa's preferences for warmer weather and being excited to leave the North behind and join the South.

With Arya, I've always remembered her being so closely compared to Lyanna Stark, and here are some quotes from the Wiki that support what my impression from the books.

Ned refers to [Lyanna], like their brother Brandon, as "wolf-blooded" - headstrong, willful, courageous and hot-tempered. He goes on to compare her to his tomboyish daughter Arya in both appearance and personality, adding that Lyanna probably would have carried a sword if their father had allowed it. She is noted to have been an extremely skilled rider.^[2] ...

Lyanna rode horses like a northman. Harwin compares her riding skills to those of Arya Stark. ^[4]

--http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Lyanna_Stark

[Ginevra]

Ned acts like Jon Arryn; he does not act like a Stark. Sansa is the most like Ned.

Patrick, I know that Ned and Jon Arryn were friends, but I am extremely curious as to why you would think that 1.) Ned isn't Stark-like, and that 2.) Sansa is more like Ned than any of the others. I cannot imagine what you will say, but I am curious. If Ned isn't Stark-like, who is? And from whom did this person learn to be like a Stark?

ETA: I have read a lot of the Sansa's like Ned and Arya's like Cat debate, and I must say that Cat and Arya do have a lot of similarities. And yet, I still see Arya as more Stark-like because we are told so much about how she's like Lyanna and because she seems stark enough to survive the North, even being significantly younger than Sansa. I can also see how Sansa in many ways resembles Ned, but I wouldn't say she resembled her father the most of all the siblings - or anywhere close. But I am open to hearing discussion.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Ginevra

[Khal Pono]

Here is the most important question ever - what grand wisdom Loras wanted to share with Cersei before she cut him off so politely? ;)

Probably some insipid cliché (Mace Tyrell is kind of a blowhard and not very bright), But I wanted to hear it too.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Khal Pono

[Ampris]

Well, it could be argued that Robb knew what he was getting into when he married Jeyne, so it wasn't his intelligence the one at fault. The bit with Theon is harder - Robb trusts Theon, but has no reason to trust Balon, so keeping Theon is still the smart thing to do.

Loras Tyrell asked Ned to go after the Mountain, which would have put Tyrells against Lannisters, yet Ned decided against it for rather silly reasons, and send an incredibly small force to deal with the Lannister's armies. Granted, he was in pain and sitting in the less ergonomical chair ever invented, but still.

As for Arya, let's take a look at this:

Incredibly good wizard assassin who's expensive enough the Small Council doesn't think they can afford to hire: Hey girl, you've saved my life, so I'll give you three free deaths

Arya: Free? Seriously?

Jaquen: Yep

Arya: Great! Tywin Lannister, Joffrey Baratheon and Stannis Baratheon! King of the North FTW!

Making bad decisions isn't the same as being dimwitted. And seriously, Arya was what, 10 at that point? She was concerned with getting back to her family and surviving. Yeah in hindsight she could have chosen differently, but that doesn't make her dimwitted. As for Robb/Theon - my understanding was that Robb really did think of Theon as a brother. Who really suspects their brother will betray them?

[rmholt]

I can confirm that by personal experience. You don't feel them biting at all. Well, at least that's true, if they bite on your ankles, legs or torso. Can't speak for other, more sensitive areas :uhoh:

Well leeches may gross people out. Chett didnt like them.

[rmholt]

Old, wise, honorable, boring (To Lysa, but can't be entirely for Robert to love him). I guess that's the extent of what we know of him. It's a bit of a reach really to compare people to him.

Jon Arryn fostered Robert and Ned so it was more than a friendship. Clearly there was more to him than Lysa saw.

[rmholt]

I wonder why they let Tyrion look such a wreck at the wedding ceremony. His hair was all messed up.

[rmholt]

I agree.

It wasn't Coldhands but those were definitely his crows in the final scene of the episode.

Here's what I noticed in the second watching: There is a tree with a face watching Sam and Gilly.