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[Book Spoilers] EP308 Discussion

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I agree. When it's on HBO you get good productive values and good performances ... and sex and nudity whenever possible. I don't care as long as it has a point. The Gendry scene moved the plot, if marginally. The Theon scene last episode didn't.

I think the Theon sex scene was just to point out the kind of torture the bastard of Bolton put him through. The scene was great at establishing what kind of twisted individual that Ramsay really is.

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Regarding the Blackfish, is this the time to point out Martin said D&D are actually killing off more people than the books did?

They do check with him before killing someone off. So if they kill a character, eg Blackfish, it isnt vital to the story. So I guess they could kill him off even if he isnt dead in the books.

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The writers also messed up Sansa's age. She's not 14, not in the show, she's got to be at least 16.

Remember Sansa is 4 years older than Bran, Bran was 10 (in the show) when the story started, a it's been at least 2 years since season 1 started. Bran is 12 now and Arya is 14, Sansa should be 16.

I was wondering about this... I thought it was pretty bizarre that they had Sansa say she was 14 since the actress playing her doesn't remotely look 14 and it would truly skeeve the majority of non-perv viewers. Even 16 is pretty young to be bedded. How old is Show Margaery and Show Cersei?

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I was wondering about this... I thought it was pretty bizarre that they had Sansa say she was 14 since the actress playing her doesn't remotely look 14 and it would truly skeeve the majority of non-perv viewers. Even 16 is pretty young to be bedded. How old is Show Margaery and Show Cersei?

I don't know David Benioff & D. B. Weiss being clumsy?

A glitch to throw into Tyrion's libido? (For the audience's benefit.)

Why mention her age at all? It's awkward , as noted, in the book, as I read it, no matter her age, he was going to leave her alone and he did.

Lord if this show goes 4 more years the Stark kids, who not longer look like kids, will not only be young adults but look like young adults. Sophie Turner has for a long long time now.

Edited by boojam

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Arya and Bran barely look like children as it is, Rickon has to be running or sitting his every scene so the audience do not to notice how tall he's getting.

At one point, the characters have to grow up at the same rate as the actors that play them do.

I think the Theon sex scene was just to point out the kind of torture the bastard of Bolton put him through. The scene was great at establishing what kind of twisted individual that Ramsay really is.

Not to mention, they killed Ros (Theon's emotional attachment on season 1 ) the same episode Ramsay physically mutilates him.

The character may never know it, but I can see what the writers did here.

Edited by silentwanderer

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regarding the blackfish why would they introduce him just to kill him off hes not massively relevant to the plot of the show (at this point) . about the sex scene people say its not necessary because it doesn't bring the plot along are well wrong! it might not be relevant but its entertaining it pushes boundaries and makes the show stand out . i mean in the blackwater episode when that guy gets a rock dropped on his head that didnt develop the plot but it was still fun dont

deny it. in my personal view i was enjoying the episode until mel starts to move that last leach and the my thoughts where no... no...no..what are you doing... please dont...no (que shudder)

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I was wondering about this... I thought it was pretty bizarre that they had Sansa say she was 14 since the actress playing her doesn't remotely look 14 and it would truly skeeve the majority of non-perv viewers. Even 16 is pretty young to be bedded. How old is Show Margaery and Show Cersei?

well cersei is 19 when she marries robert plus seventeen years to this point she is 36 . but the show is three years further on the book (i think) so margery should be ninteen

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regarding the blackfish why would they introduce him just to kill him off hes not massively relevant to the plot of the show (at this point).

Except for Daenerys's handmaidens (I still hate that change)... are not all the characters in the book still alive at this point and I think by the end of season 4. (I am not counting invented characters.)

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well cersei is 19 when she marries robert plus seventeen years to this point she is 36 . but the show is three years further on the book (i think) so margery should be ninteen

They haven't aged all the characters equally. Natalie Dormer is young-looking, but it's difficult to believe that character isn't at least in her early twenties.

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I don't know how the ratings compare here but at least over at the Tower of the Hand it appears that Season 1 will remain the online community's favorite unless the last two episodes of Season 3 both receive a bunch of 10's. Anyone surprised/disappointed by this? Season 3 had a lot of hype, and many expected it to be the best season yet. I thought it might be, but overall I was always anxious for season 4. Yes, we will get that very iconic scene in one week's time, however, IMO the second half of a Storm of Swords is better than the first half. Season 4 will have so much: purple wedding, battle at the wall, red viper vs. the mountain, Tyrion's escape/revenge, etc. What do you guys think?

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I don't know how the ratings compare here but at least over at the Tower of the Hand it appears that Season 1 will remain the online community's favorite unless the last two episodes of Season 3 both receive a bunch of 10's. Anyone surprised/disappointed by this? Season 3 had a lot of hype, and many expected it to be the best season yet. I thought it might be, but overall I was always anxious for season 4. Yes, we will get that very iconic scene in one week's time, however, IMO the second half of a Storm of Swords is better than the first half. Season 4 will have so much: purple wedding, battle at the wall, red viper vs. the mountain, Tyrion's escape/revenge, etc. What do you guys think?

Hmmmm, that's a tough one. In Season 3 we have had 3 great episodes (S3E03, S3E04, S3E05) which I would probably rate as 10 and 2 very good episodes (S3E06 and S3E08) which I would rate as 9s. I suspect that the last two episodes will be at least 9s, if not both 10s. That would mean half of Season 3 would have been rated 10.

Where are the average ratings at ASOIAF for all the episodes and seasons? Anyone do the math yet?

I do think it is possible that Season 4 could be the best ever. I do know that one of the most satisfying moments in my reading of the books was the line "It turns out that Tywin Lannister did not indeed shit gold" (or words to that effect). The Purple Wedding is pretty satisfying too. The stuff at the Vale is sorta diffuse, but my memory is not that great--I have only read the books once so I can only really remember the big events right now.

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Where are the average ratings at ASOIAF for all the episodes and seasons? Anyone do the math yet?

I can't believe I just did this. I went through every episode rating thread on this website for seasons 1 and 2, and did the math. I think the math is right but I did this at midnight so there's no guarantees.

Rounded to nearest tenth:

Season 1:

Winter is Coming 8.3

The Kingsroad 8.2

Lord Snow 7.9

Cripples, Bastards, and Broken Things 7.7

The Wolf and the Lion 8.7

A Golden Crown 8.8

You Win or You Die 8.1

The Pointy End 9.0

Baelor 8.7

Fire and Blood 9.1

Season Average: 8.5

Season 2:

The North Remembers 7.6

The Night Lands 7.1

What Is Dead May Never Die 8.6

Garden of Bones 7.7

The Ghost of Harrenhal 8.3

The Old Gods and the New 8.1

A Man Without Honor 7.9

The Prince of Winterfell 7.1

Blackwater 9.5

Valar Morghulis 7.6

Season Average: 8.0

I may do season 3 tomorrow, or wait until all 10 episodes have aired.

Edited by ebevan91

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I got your back bro. No guarantee regarding the math, but I'm guessing it's accurate.

Season 3 :

Valar Dohaeris 7.6

Dark Wings, Dark Words 7.6

Walk of Punishment 8.4

And Now His Watch Is Ended 9.2

Kissed by Fire 8.8

The Climb 7.3

The Bear and the Maiden Fair 7.1

Second Sons 8.4

Season Average : 8.05

Edited by Epicfurball

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I don't know how the ratings compare here but at least over at the Tower of the Hand it appears that Season 1 will remain the online community's favorite unless the last two episodes of Season 3 both receive a bunch of 10's. Anyone surprised/disappointed by this? Season 3 had a lot of hype, and many expected it to be the best season yet. I thought it might be, but overall I was always anxious for season 4. Yes, we will get that very iconic scene in one week's time, however, IMO the second half of a Storm of Swords is better than the first half. Season 4 will have so much: purple wedding, battle at the wall, red viper vs. the mountain, Tyrion's escape/revenge, etc. What do you guys think?

Well, I wish there was a way of separating readers from non readers.

I think book 1 was easier to adapt and I think D and D spent more time and effort on it.

They seem, to me, to be overworked season 2 and 3.

All in all my non book reading friends would give seasons 2 and 3 higher grades.

From a book reader's view, including me, season 2 should have been split into two seasons, as long as they are going to stick with the 10 episode format.

As a book reader all I can do is blame any short comings on GRRM , D and D seem to bust their butts to adapt too much material into 10 episodes, this has even been true when splitting book 3 into two seasons!

All that said:

From the season averages I see there, that looks good to me!

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I got your back bro. No guarantee regarding the math, but I'm guessing it's accurate.

Season 3 :

Valar Dohaeris 7.6

Dark Wings, Dark Words 7.6

Walk of Punishment 8.4

And Now His Watch Is Ended 9.2

Kissed by Fire 8.8

The Climb 7.3

The Bear and the Maiden Fair 7.1

Second Sons 8.4

Season Average : 8.05

I am bit surprised by the low ratings on the 'off action' episodes, gave them all ratings a point or more higher than I see here, what accounts for the higher audience tune in totals?

The only change I would give is episode 4, the ending there should have pushed that 9.2 to 9.6!Regardless of what ever happened that episode , which as I remember was good.

All the action in the East has been a 9 on my meter... and that's not just comparing it to last year and season 2.

Edited by boojam

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I almost wanted to not count the ratings that were below 4, because I honestly don't think any episode has been THAT bad.

Like for instance, Valar Morghulis had around 55 votes that were a 3 or lower.

Edited by ebevan91

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I was wondering about this... I thought it was pretty bizarre that they had Sansa say she was 14 since the actress playing her doesn't remotely look 14 and it would truly skeeve the majority of non-perv viewers. Even 16 is pretty young to be bedded. How old is Show Margaery and Show Cersei?

I think at least one year got lost in oblivion by Sansa telling she was fourteen. She started at Winterfell at the age of thirteen. Only a few months between the party at Wnterfell and the wedding?? Tyrion travelling to the Wall and being taken to the Eyrie in the speed of light? All that war, Blackwater, Robb's an Catelyn's trip to Riverrun, Dany's baby must have taken nine months at the first season before the dragons even hatched - and now they are quite big.

The timing is wrong!

No, I think they made a huge mistake, they aged up all kids, they should not have forgotten Sansa. She looks as if they could have taken an eighteen year old actress from the beginning for her role. Why did they bother with a minor if Sophie Turner looked like eighteen from the first season on? They could easily have found an eighteen year old who looks like fourteen and plays a thirteen year old.

What do you think? I would like to know what the HBO, not the book character ages might be.

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I don't get the big deal with Sansa's age. Far bigger discrepancies between the actor's age and the character's age happen in TV land all the time. So she looks 17 and is supposed to be 14, big deal. We have actors in their late 20s and looking it being cast as teens quite often in other shows. Or in this show too - Richard Madden is way older than 17-18.

I think at least one year got lost in oblivion by Sansa telling she was fourteen. She started at Winterfell at the age of thirteen. Only a few months between the party at Wnterfell and the wedding?? Tyrion travelling to the Wall and being taken to the Eyrie in the speed of light? All that war, Blackwater, Robb's an Catelyn's trip to Riverrun, Dany's baby must have taken nine months at the first season before the dragons even hatched - and now they are quite big.

The timing is wrong!

Why do you think it's supposed to be only a few months? If Sansa was 13 years and 1 month back at the start, and is 14 years and 11 months now, it's full 22 months between the two events. An extreme example obviously, but it could easily be more than a year without contradiction.

Edited by David Selig

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We can roughly assume that the time period covered by the show so far is 1 year and 9 months (give or take), as Dany said that a year ago she had no dragons, and the first episode took place 9-10 months before the birth of the dragons.

It would therefore be entirely possible for Sansa to have been 13 when Robert arrived at Winterfell and 14 when she marries Tyrion. The timing would also be consistent with the books, as she was 11 when Robert arrived at Winterfell and 12 when she married Tyrion.

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