Continued Stannis Character Assasination [Book and TV Spoilers]

[Darth Pipes]

As I recall in the book, Gendry said that Jon Arryn brought Stannis along with him when he met him and Stannis looked at him like he raped his daughter. So his disregard for Gendry "Part Robert, Part Tavern Whore" is accurate.

[Jory]

I missed part of it... it was a mixed bag.

[Thelastactionhero]

Yes, I watched the scene with Davos, though I disagree that it was sufficient to properly convey Stannis' moral conflict. I'll grant you that the change from Edric to Gendry certainly takes away Stannis' attatchment to him as a person, seeing as they've never met before, but even the dialogue in the dungeon came off to me as extremely flat and one-dimensional in this regard. When Davos and Stannis discuss the fate of Edric Storm in the books, the discourse is extremely emotional and dramatic. It really highlighted the human qualities of Stannis that lurk beneath the surface of his stoicism.

"I never asked for this crown. Gold is cold & heavy on the head but so long as I am the king, I have a duty … If I must sacrifice one child to the flames to save a million from the dark … Sacrifice … is never easy, Davos. Or it is no true sacrifice.”

Here, I felt it was extremely weak and unconvincing. I realize quotes such as this were partially transmuted from SoS into this scene, but it felt very empty to me. Perhaps that had something to do with delivery as much as it was the writing. He also speaks of sacrificing Gendry nonchalantly to both Mel and Davos that it made it extremely difficult to connect with any sort of inner turmoil, whereas in the books he goes so far as to threaten to kill Mellisandre if it turns out he sacrificed an innocent for nothing. Those instances of opposition to her are actually quite important for his character and none of it is present here. Since they're taking steps to illustrate Stannis as more human and passionate than his book counterpart anyway, why skip out on all this? I peronsally didn’t feel there was enough development in these cramped scenes to allow us to connect with Stannis’ moral conflict. I will however concede that “character assassination” is too strong of a term regarding these scenes, even though I feel maintain that his complexity has been watered down in the adaptation.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

As a Stannis fan I liked this episode portrayal of him. He gave us info on what he saw in the fire, and the showed appropriate hesitation on Melisandre's plan.

[WTFSalami]

I will NEVER in a million years understand the fandom that surrounds Stannis Baratheon. It really does boggle my mind.

[Thelastactionhero]

I will NEVER in a million years understand the fandom that surrounds Stannis Baratheon. It really does boggle my mind.

It's because he's a boss.

[Jojosh]

Turning stannis into an unambiguous villain is not what they are doing

They are making him into an even bigger dick

They have flanderized the most evident aspects of his character being his prickly nature and turned that up to 11

Now you have show stannis

Not character assassination but its better than painting him as Robert's pathetic brother who just couldn't live up to him

[The Ghost of Winter]

I was okay with it, as others have said he did go to Davos to hear what he wanted to and so on. I liked it. He showed some humanity.

[Montey14]

Yes, I watched the scene with Davos, though I disagree that it was sufficient to properly convey Stannis' moral conflict. I'll grant you that the change from Edric to Gendry certainly takes away Stannis' attatchment to him as a person, seeing as they've never met before, but even the dialogue in the dungeon came off to me as extremely flat and one-dimensional in this regard. When Davos and Stannis discuss the fate of Edric Storm in the books, the discourse is extremely emotional and dramatic. It really highlighted the human qualities of Stannis that lurk beneath the surface of his stoicism.

"I never asked for this crown. Gold is cold & heavy on the head but so long as I am the king, I have a duty … If I must sacrifice one child to the flames to save a million from the dark … Sacrifice … is never easy, Davos. Or it is no true sacrifice.”

Here, I felt it was extremely weak and unconvincing. I realize quotes such as this were partially transmuted from SoS into this scene, but it felt very empty to me. Perhaps that had something to do with delivery as much as it was the writing. He also speaks of sacrificing Gendry nonchalantly to both Mel and Davos that it made it extremely difficult to connect with any sort of inner turmoil, whereas in the books he goes so far as to threaten to kill Mellisandre if it turns out he sacrificed an innocent for nothing. Those instances of opposition to her are actually quite important for his character and none of it is present here. Since they're taking steps to illustrate Stannis as more human and passionate than his book counterpart anyway, why skip out on all this? I peronsally didn’t feel there was enough development in these cramped scenes to allow us to connect with Stannis’ moral conflict. I will however concede that “character assassination” is too strong of a term regarding these scenes, even though I feel maintain that his complexity has been watered down in the adaptation.

You have a valid point in that actors do not always play book characters as you would envision them being in your imagination....I thought thought that scene was pretty good....it would have made no sense for Stannis to try and spare a bastard child he doesn't know....but he does know it's wrong to kill innocent people....or else he wouldn't have gone to Davos....in the end he knew it was wrong and needed to be talked out of sacraficing Gendry....

[Tom son of Tom]

I will NEVER in a million years understand the fandom that surrounds Stannis Baratheon. It really does boggle my mind.

He is the one true King.

[King Zee]

He also speaks of sacrificing Gendry nonchalantly to both Mel and Davos that it made it extremely difficult to connect with any sort of inner turmoil

really ? I dont know how to describe the exact tone that I picked up from Stannis when talking to Davos but I didnt get nonchalant. more like -Mels power is real and she says we have to do this.......so we have to....right ?

[Thelastactionhero]

You have a valid point in that actors do not always play book characters as you would envision them being in your imagination....I thought thought that scene was pretty good....it would have made no sense for Stannis to try and spare a bastard child he doesn't know....but he does know it's wrong to kill innocent people....or else he wouldn't have gone to Davos....in the end he knew it was wrong and needed to be talked out of sacraficing Gendry....

I like I said, I jumped the gun a little bit with "character assasination", (though there are some instances of this in other Stannis scenes), but I think there are reasons to be disappointed with how he's being rendered. I'm going to rewatch the Davos scene though since there's obviously more value in it than I realized.

[Trebla]

I will NEVER in a million years understand the fandom that surrounds Stannis Baratheon. It really does boggle my mind.

Part of it may be is that he's quite different from the other lords in the realm. His three closest advisors have been a woman, a bastard, and a smuggler. He may rant, threaten, and grind his teeth when he doesn't hear what he wants but he keeps asking their advice. As Mel told Jon, "it's not his words you should fear but his silences"

[JonCon's Red Beard]

In the book...Edric lives with him and practiacally raised him....On the show...he bareley knows Gendry...why should he have any feelings for him....but in the end he goes to Davos because he wanted to be talked out of it...thats what I got out of the scene....

because Gendry is a human being? Stannis is not a monster.

BTW, anything we know about Stannis is from other people, and those who claim knowing him. I think those who know him the best are Davos and Maester Cressen, but that doesn't mean they know what's in his head. Stannis might act in a way, but that doesn't mean he's not conflicted about his actions and he also feels tempted or disgusted by things he has done.

[dtones520]

I will NEVER in a million years understand the fandom that surrounds Stannis Baratheon. It really does boggle my mind.

Because he is not a POV character and 90% of the time we see him is through the eyes of a guy who worships the ground he walks on. So people make their own judgement of him and his actions as being totally badass because that is how Davos pictures most of what Stannis does.

It's the same with Robb and him breaking his marriage oath with Jeyne. In the books what Robb did was just as selfish and stupid as what show Robb did. He conquers the Crag, he is wounded and Jeyne takes care of him, they start to become fond of each other, Robb finds out that his brothers died and in his grief he has sex with Jeyne then has this "oh shit, that wasnt honorable!" moment and marries her because she was a virgin. He doesn't consider the war effort when he does that, he does it because he felt bad about *shaming* a girl who willingly had sex with him...while grieving his brothers deaths. I'm sorry but if I just found out my sister was murdered by my once best friend, I dont think I'd be in the mood.

[Thelastactionhero]

really ? I dont know how to describe the exact tone that I picked up from Stannis when talking to Davos but I didnt get nonchalant. more like -Mels power is real and she says we have to do this.......so we have to....right ?

Right off the bat when he's talking to Davos about sacrificing Gendry, it sounds as though he doesn't give a flying fuck about the kid. He then proceeds to dehumanize him on the grounds of being a bastard. When he's talking to Mellisandre right after getting back, he knows she's going to kill the boy, and doesn't take any issue with it. The only issue he really brings to mind is prolonging Gendry's torment.

[Thelastactionhero]

Because he is not a POV character and 90% of the time we see him is through the eyes of a guy who worships the ground he walks on. So people make their own judgement of him and his actions as being totally badass because that is how Davos pictures most of what Stannis does.

It's the same with Robb and him breaking his marriage oath with Jeyne. In the books what Robb did was just as selfish and stupid as what show Robb did. He conquers the Crag, he is wounded and Jeyne takes care of him, they start to become fond of each other, Robb finds out that his brothers died and in his grief he has sex with Jeyne then has this "oh shit, that wasnt honorable!" moment and marries her because she was a virgin. He doesn't consider the war effort when he does that, he does it because he felt bad about *shaming* a girl who willingly had sex with him...while grieving his brothers deaths. I'm sorry but if I just found out my sister was murdered by my once best friend, I dont think I'd be in the mood.

He gets a shitload of development during the Jon Snow and Asha chapters. What are you talking about dude?

[Jojosh]

He gets a shitload of development during the Jon Snow and Asha chapters. What are you talking about dude?

I wouldn't call that development

[Naathi Prince]

I will NEVER in a million years understand the fandom that surrounds Stannis Baratheon. It really does boggle my mind.

People like Stannis because if Petyr Baelish had just let him be King everything would be fine. Just, Strong, and Diligent, King Stannis Baratheon, the first of His Name, would have stopped the White Walkers, prevented the Targaryen and Blackfyre invasions, and ruled well. The worst people in the series are the ones who despise him most.

[WTFSalami]

It's because he's a boss.

Yeah... I don't really get that impression from him. At all.