[BOOK SPOILERS] Stannis the lamb

[go joff go]

I'm surprised noone is talking about this but for the second time this season (the first being with Arya) Melissandre seemed to drop a gigantic bombshell. I thought her scene which Stannis in which she tells him the lambs she sacrifice never know its coming. So who is she talking about (and it aint Gendry)

Is it Stannis or Jon? I thought it was a very interesting line.

[Neeps on a Breastplate]

Oo, nice. Bump.

[Kienn]

It was so Stannis could go "Oh dang she likes to murder a lot of people, hmmmmm, lemme go talk to Davos maybe he was right about her being an evil maniac."

[The Knight of Flours]

Renly might be lamb, but Stannis is probably mutton..

[pantouflas]

I thought she meant Gendry, but Stannis decided for the sex/leeches thing instead.. At least for the moment he isn't sacrificed

[Tony Soprano]

It's Gendry. It's certainly not Stannis, nor Jon.

It was just a way to convince Stannis to let her do whatever she wanted with Gendry. No foreshadowing.

[The Fourth Head]

I

It was so Stannis could go "Oh dang she likes to murder a lot of people, hmmmmm, lemme go talk to Davos maybe he was right about her being an evil maniac."

^

this.

They did choose to linger on her rather challenging face and his look back, which was interesting. It looked to be about more than Gendry and his fate, or her ruthlessness in comparison to Stannis' morality. It looked to be about them.

I don't think the show is making Melisandre into a traitor-in-waiting for Stannis, or foreshadowing that she will lead Stannis to the slaughter in future, (the book strongly suggests her faith in Stannis is genuine) but it could well be that the writers wanted Stannis to suspect he may be led to the slaughter by Melisandre in future and to emphasise the obvious parallels between Gendry and Stannis. To make him feel uneasy about her faith in him just as she is about to perform something sexual with some fresh king-meat is an interesting sub-level. Show Stannis may believe in her red god, but I doubt he truly believes he is Azor Ahai reborn. Book Stannis certainly doesn't. He is using Melisandre, and may feel like she is using him too.

The line, the look, it worked well. For Stannis to suspect he may be in the same boat as Gendry would add another level to his motivation to rescue him. It doesn't necessarily mean foreshadowing. No doubt she meant exactly what she said- she had killed before when learning her blood magic. She was proving to Stannis her resolve to go through with the killing and soothing his jealousy that it wasn't just about sex, or that she was leaving him for someone who's fire burn't a little higher, but Stannis took it another way- that she was about to do something immoral, that she was about to have full on sex with a kingly rival, and that she was a danger, to him as much as to Gendry, and that she needed reigning in.

I love the sexual dimension to it as well. By stopping Melisandre, Stannis did a moral act, but he was also stopping Melisandre from, probably, having full sexual intercourse with Gendry. Who knows? It's all deliciously complicated.

[Drogo_1]

She was referring to Gendry but the underlying thing I took away is that Stannis is also a lamb who has no idea how he will be sacrificed.

[lostinwesteros]

Yeah, I'm in line with this. And the Stannis as a lamb thing is, IMO, a perfect metaphor. Lambs are easily led, and they're pretty stupid. I didn't see book Stannis this way but it's exactly how I think tv Stannis is being portrayed -- Mel's puppet who has nowhere near the clearest ideas of what Mel is about to do or what she is all about.

[Sand11751]

Oooh, I love this idea of Stannis as a lamb. It's clear fromwhat Melisandre and Thoros say, they believe in the lord of light using people for a purpose. That's obviously regardless of their own will and if people want to be used. Last night I did think Stannis gave her the "Hold up, wait a minute" look, but not in the context of himself as a lamb, but rather, "I think this bitch is a a little cray-cray. Lemme check in with my man Davos and have him set me straight." Interesting idea of Stannis being sacrificed, one I am all in favor of after the events of ADWD.

[Queen Elsa]

Renly might be lamb, but Stannis is probably mutton..

:lol:

She was referring to Gendry but the underlying thing I took away is that Stannis is also a lamb who has no idea how he will be sacrificed.

Davos will save them both, I hope.

[Stannis the Wight]

The only foreshadowing was when Stannis said he saw a vision in the flames "a great battle in the snow"

I'll admit I got a nerd hard on when I heard that.

[ServantOnIce]

Stannis is just a mean's to an end, defeating The Great Other . . is her goal.

[Arjuous]

I appreciate the initiative, but I'm afraid I don't see it. We know from Mel's POV chapter that she truly believes in Stannis. If it weren't for that chapter, I'd give your theory a bit more leeway, but, at least according to the books, she's genuinely invested in Stannis.

[shiola]

Davos, please become the great shepherd <3 Deliver your woolen baby from evil.

[PetyrPunkinhead]

The only foreshadowing was when Stannis said he saw a vision in the flames "a great battle in the snow"

I'll admit I got a nerd hard on when I heard that.

Hard-ons of every variety abound in this episode.

[The Anti-Targ]

Well we know from DwD and her inner monologue that Mel believes Stannis is the PwwP / AAR. I'm working on the assumption that show Mel hasn't been given any book spoilers in the flames to tell her otherwise.

Therefore I took the lamb reference at face value to be both general: sometimes most of the time human sacrifice is required to advance the LoL's agenda, and specific: Gendry is toast, first the leeching, then the dying (of the usurper kings) party trick, she saw their deaths in the flames then does the leeching to fake everyone out, then the burning to try to wake the stone dragons.

I fully expect Gendry's arc to follow that of Edric and Davos will save him from the flames, and in the process show Stannis the less burny-sacrificy way to be a king in deed to the people of Westeros.

Edit: That said in events after DwD Mel might come to a realisation that Stannis isn't AAR, but rather the latter day Nissa Nissa. But as far as the show is concerned the lamb thing is not Mel's conscious foreshadowing of her intentions towards Stannis.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Stannis is just a mean's to an end, defeating The Great Other . . is her goal.

I always thought her goal was to find Jon, and Stannis was just the mean to him. But if you're right, then Jon may be also a tool in her plans.

[The Killer Snark]

I'd really never considered this that deeply, though the fact she must know Stannis is not Azor Ahai has always been playing in my mind. The possibility of Stannis being sacrificed to suit Mel's agenda is the only possible conclusion I can come up with as to why she latched on to him in the first place.

[Master Forel's Fro]

I always thought someone (varys) send her to stannis, He is the rightfull heir of Robert (not counting the Targ kids) she fucks him up new god, burning ppl alive turns the rightfull king against nobles and small folk alike that by the time he sits the IT no one would want him there even more then they did in the beginning. Making the young, Aegon even more appealing as king.