[SPOILERS] Shae

[HouseHarrison]

They still have a whole season to build up Shae's betrayal. They're going to go a very different route with her then the TV show, but I'm fairly sure will get to the same result.

[mrs_serpounce]

Am I the only one who thinks that Shae is already sleeping with Tywin? Thus her 'jealousy' is her trying to push Tyrion away so he won't be so upset whenever he finds out?

You're definitely not the only one who smells something rotten in Denmark with Shae. I always thought Book!Shae's motivations were wholly straightforward. Show!Shae is a lot more wily, and I haven't trusted her from Day 1 (and didn't she tell Tyrion as much?)

I do also see some parallels with Shae and Ros and the whole concept of the ladder. Women who were whores who are using their positions to climb out of said status. That said, I definitely think Shae is letting it go to her head a bit more than some, and I think that, just like Ros, it's going to cause her downfall in the end. Play multiple players, and you'll wind up getting caught, eventually. (...and a nice little tieback to the book plot...)

[David Selig]

I am starting to think Tyrion won't kill Shae at all. Or if he does, it would be a clear case of self-defence or to save Sansa's life, something to make him look like the hero again.

[Theda Baratheon]

I am starting to think Tyrion won't kill Shae at all. Or if he does, it would be a clear case of self-defence or to save Sansa's life, something to make him look like the hero again.

Me too. :(

I really can't see a way the character they've made Tyrion into could believably kill this woman he 'loves'

making her a 'crazy psycho jealous bitch' would be so cliche.

also great sig.

[mrs_serpounce]

I am starting to think Tyrion won't kill Shae at all. Or if he does, it would be a clear case of self-defence or to save Sansa's life, something to make him look like the hero again.

:bang:

There are loads of Tyrion haters out there on the boards today...

I don't think that Show!Tyrion is a hero, nor do quite a few of my Unsullied friends who watch along with me. At best, morally gray. Which I've been noting in several threads up to this point today. Lots. :D

And I wholeheartedly disagree with you. As I mentioned above, I think that Shae's going to wind up doing something duplicitous, and Tyrion's going to take her out, just like the book. Because he lets his anger get the better of him, just like the book. Because Tyrion isn't Ned 2.0.

[Theda Baratheon]

I think it's really insulting to reduce someone to x character hater.

[mrs_serpounce]

Me too. :(

I really can't see a way the character they've made Tyrion into could believably kill this woman he 'loves'

making her a 'crazy psycho jealous bitch' would be so cliche.

Ooof. I don't even know how we're seeing such different things. I sure can. I don't think she's going to go down 'crazy psycho jealous bitch' either. I think there's a side to her we haven't seen yet, where she's playing the long game. There has *got* to be a reason that D&D made her such a different character than Vapid!Book!Shae. And methinks it doesn't bode very well for Tyrion.

[Theda Baratheon]

Well, let us see what happens. I'm just saying that AT THE MOMENT I just can't see it. I cant tell the future so I don't know what they will do with the characters,, but at the moment the two characters are 'in love' but I suppose they have a season to change this. We'll see.

Right now Tyrion, as he is, wouldn't do this. So big things have got to happen.

[mrs_serpounce]

I think it's really insulting to reduce someone to x character hater.

I think that the fact is, there are a lot of people out here today that are trying very hard to make a point that the show is making a non-hero a hero, and who are exasperated, and for some, quite disgusted with that concept.

I'm not reducing anyone to anything, and everyone has a perfect right to like some characters and dislike others ;) That's why everyone has an opinion. I just would like to see some middle-ground discussion instead of all the "OMG D&D think Tyrion is a hero and nobody sees how really bad he is!"

[David Selig]

I love Tyrion as a character in the books. Not as a person, mind, but as a character he's awesome (until ADWD at least when he bored me to tears most of the time). That's exactly why I hate how they've turned him into a borderline saint in the show and made him so much more boring.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

:bang:

There are loads of Tyrion haters out there on the boards today...

I don't think that Show!Tyrion is a hero, nor do quite a few of my Unsullied friends who watch along with me. At best, morally gray. Which I've been noting in several threads up to this point today. Lots. :D

And I wholeheartedly disagree with you. As I mentioned above, I think that Shae's going to wind up doing something duplicitous, and Tyrion's going to take her out, just like the book. Because he lets his anger get the better of him, just like the book. Because Tyrion isn't Ned 2.0.

Bingo

[Theda Baratheon]

That's quite rude, I felt I wasn't just 'OMG' and had some genuine opinions on his character in comparison to the book. But perhaps this is not the thread for a Tyrion discussion.

[mrs_serpounce]

Well, let us see what happens. I'm just saying that AT THE MOMENT I just can't see it. I cant tell the future so I don't know what they will do with the characters,, but at the moment the two characters are 'in love' but I suppose they have a season to change this. We'll see.

Right now Tyrion, as he is, wouldn't do this. So big things have got to happen.

Again, I don't agree. I don't think the characters are "in love," per se. I see something a lot more sinister in Shae than I guess a lot of people do. And while Tyrion is "in love," Book!Tyrion was also "in love" with Shae (as best he could be, anyway), and it was what made her betrayal at his trial, and in Tywin's bed, all the more shocking to him - he never saw it coming. I think that whatever Show!Shae is up to, Show!Tyrion won't see it coming, either.

Also, Show!Tyrion's "I like living!" speech may be a couple seasons off, but I don't think his character has evolved past it. I think that the show might be focusing on some of his more positive aspects (at the detriment of some others), but at this point in the books, he didn't do anything majorly horrible that's been left out (other than the omission of his participation in Tysha's gang rape, which I did think was a pretty glaring omission). There's a looooooong way to go for his character, and I'm sure that Shae will have a hand in it.

I could be completely wrong, but that's why we debate these things. :)

[mrs_serpounce]

That's quite rude, I felt I wasn't just 'OMG' and had some genuine opinions on his character in comparison to the book. But perhaps this is not the thread for a Tyrion discussion.

Maybe I should've just tacked on a statement that it was an expressed opinion about a lot of people in general today, and wasn't directed specificially at you? :) You appear to think that most of my notations about the vehemence of others tends to be rude. This is an internet forum, tone is not implicitly implied :)

[Theda Baratheon]

Again, I don't agree. I don't think the characters are "in love," per se. I see something a lot more sinister in Shae than I guess a lot of people do. And while Tyrion is "in love," Book!Tyrion was also "in love" with Shae (as best he could be, anyway), and it was what made her betrayal at his trial, and in Tywin's bed, all the more shocking to him - he never saw it coming. I think that whatever Show!Shae is up to, Show!Tyrion won't see it coming, either.

Also, Show!Tyrion's "I like living!" speech may be a couple seasons off, but I don't think his character has evolved past it. I think that the show might be focusing on some of his more positive aspects (at the detriment of some others), but at this point in the books, he didn't do anything majorly horrible that's been left out (other than the omission of his participation in Tysha's gang rape, which I did think was a pretty glaring omission). There's a looooooong way to go for his character, and I'm sure that Shae will have a hand in it.

I could be completely wrong, but that's why we debate these things. :)

he actually has done quite a lot of horrible things in the books at this point, but i won't reiterate them all now as theyve been covered countless times in other threads.

[mrs_serpounce]

I love Tyrion as a character in the books. Not as a person, mind, but as a character he's awesome (until ADWD at least when he bored me to tears most of the time). That's exactly why I hate how they've turned him into a borderline saint in the show and made him so much more boring.

I agree with you about ADWD. Getting Tyrion back and then having to slog through his chapters there were just... woof. But ADWD, IMO, was Martin's most aimless book out of the five, and I think that really reflected in many characters' arcs (Dany's being another...)

As far as Show!Tyrion goes, I guess I just don't see it the same way. I've never thought he was "a borderline saint." (Does a "borderline saint" say things like, "Those are brave men knocking at our door. Let's go kill them!" I can't see that.) I think he might be a little more good than true neutral, but we really haven't gotten into the parts of the book where he really descends yet. How the show handles that will have significant impact upon how I view the show character.

[Young Nan]

I think that show Shae is a 100% different person that book Shae. Show Shae and Tyrion are clearly in love, she is acting jealous and demanding, and Tyrion is reinforcing it, having conversations with her where he apologizes about Sansa, promises Shae he "only has eyes for her" and only thinks of Sansa as pretty from a purely aesthetic standpoint, etc.

They are both acting as if they have a "real" relationship. So, I interpreted Shae as genuinely jealous of their wedding and genuinely relieved that he didn't bed Sansa.

[mrs_serpounce]

he actually has done quite a lot of horrible things in the books at this point, but i won't reiterate them all now as theyve been covered countless times in other threads.

We'll have to disagree on our concept of "majorly horrible," then. He's done some bad things, yup, in the context of familal war... But we're not even at Singer's Stew yet (which is where I really see it starting).

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Maybe Shae is genuinely worried about Sansa, who after all, is a innocent child, and glad Tyrion did the right thing by not sleeping with her.

[Woman of War]

She seemed genuinely surprised and relieved, and then looked at Tyrion and smiled at him. She's in love. I don't have a huge problem with her being in love, but I have a problem with the fact she actually thinks she could be anything more than a girl on the side for Tyrion. It makes her appear stupid, and maybe that's how she's supposed to come across. Still, it's hard to feel for stupid characters.

Well, in the books it's Tyrion who has some delusions about Shae's feelings and he is not stupid at all, he is exactly, delusional.

And that is what makes the story interesting: A highly intelligent character, who due to his own cruel history, is craving for love and recognition so badly that at times he loses touch with reality and can fool himself into believing that book Shae loves him because he wants it so much.

Shouldn't we grant HBO Shae a similiar illusion? Shae for sure is a strong selfmadewoman, not stupid at all who does not realize the reality of the game because she is from another social background. She has delusions about her possibilities, being partially blind just like book Tyrion. Delusions can go very well together with being clever.