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Ice and Fire animal project II: Lions


Mladen

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Maybe I just made this up in my own head but I seem to remember a mention of some special extinct Lions that used to live near Casterly Rock. I will have to search for it.

it's the same type of lion, what you remember is leaf saying that they're all slain in bran's chapter in dance (they are basically an endangered species,like pandas, only a handful left)

edit: also there are a few in casterly rock, cersei remembers going down to the cages

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it's the same type of lion, what you remember is leaf saying that they're all slain in bran's chapter in dance (they are basically an endangered species,like pandas, only a handful left)

Oh yes now I remember, I just looked it up on the wiki. Leaf called them "Great Lions" so I guess I must have presumed they were some special larger types of Lions. That doesn't seem to be the case.

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edit: also there are a few in casterly rock, cersei remembers going down to the cages

Here's the quote

Cersei paced her cell, restless as the caged lions that had lived in the bowels of Casterly Rock when she was a girl, a legacy of her grandfather’s time. She and Jaime used to dare each other to climb into their cage, and once she worked up enough courage to slip her hand between two bars and touch one of the great tawny beasts. She was always bolder than her brother. The lion had turned his head to stare at her with huge golden eyes. Then he licked her fingers. His tongue was as rough as a rasp, but even so she would not pull her hand back, not until Jaime took her by the shoulders and yanked her away from the cage.

A Dance with Dragons

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Mladen - Sorry for coming so late to the lion party, but sometimes, I get interrupted.

Wonderful research and writing, Mladen. You're becoming more skillful with each post. Very nice!

I love the Tolstoy reference from Anna Karenina, (if my aging memory serves me correctly). This unhappy family, the Lannisters, are truly and deeply unhappy in their very own way. As you note, it seems that their unique unhappiness is as much a product of their success as of any failure, (which I suppose, in Lannister terms, is not an optional at all). The same could easily be applied to lions in areas where overpopulation creates too little territory and the spoils of such, like food and water, the bare necessities for lions' prides.

Here, that "overpopulation" aspect is represented in the answer to the question, "Who will inherit Casterly Rock?". Tywin, predeath, wants it to go to Jaime. Tyrion believes it is his by law because of Jaime's position as a Kingsguard knight. AN Cersei, she seems ambivalent, at best, about its disposition. I can't image her ever wanting Tyrion to have it nor Jaime. She certainly doesn't want to leave the allure of Kings Landing. What's a pride to do?

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Mladen - Sorry for coming so late to the lion party, but sometimes, I get interrupted.

Wonderful research and writing, Mladen. You're becoming more skillful with each post. Very nice!

No worries, my dear, the important thing is that you're here. And also thank you for your kind words. They really mean a lot to me...

I love the Tolstoy reference from Anna Karenina, (if my aging memory serves me correctly). This unhappy family, the Lannisters, are truly and deeply unhappy in their very own way. As you note, it seems that their unique unhappiness is as much a product of their success as of any failure, (which I suppose, in Lannister terms, is not an optional at all). The same could easily be applied to lions in areas where overpopulation creates too little territory and the spoils of such, like food and water, the bare necessities for lions' prides.

Yes, it is Tolstoy reference, your memory serves you fine. I like Russian realists influence in modern literature, and in the next essay, I'll deal with Dostoyevski and Brothers Karamazov influnce in writing Lannister pride. For me, it is fascinating how Martin at the beginning juxtapositioned wolf pack and lion pride. The problems emerged inside their respective families, but you can feel that you have just scratched the surface with exposing some of the problems. One of the most interesting conversations is one Cersei, Jaime and Tyrion had in Winterfell, where Tyrion realizes that behind Bran's fall is something far more sinister and that his siblings are somehow involved.Why, Jaime, my sweet brother,” he said, “you wound me. You know how much I love my family.” There is certain perversion in shown loyalty and it is one of deepest issues Lannisters have.

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Mladen - Above you quote a portion of the text when Cersei slips her hand through the bars of the lion's cage and it licks her fingers. This is an interesting quote for many reasons, but what struck me about it is that, first, Cersei's "story" is extremely self aggrandizing. She is braver and bolder than her twin bother. She is the one with courage, fearless facing a caged beast. This little snippet reveals so much about Cersei's character: her competiveness, her need to win at all costs, her disregard for her own safety in pursuit of this aim. When Jaime pulls her hand out of the cage, with some force, she has great swelling pride at her accomplishment. Later on, her twin, Jaime, who prevented possible injury to her hand in this scence, will, while in service to the great Lion, Tywin, lose his sword hand to one of Tywin's other rough beasts.

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I'm so ashamed I just found this, and as always, an awesome thread.

Well, you know what to do. Read all the essays, and give us new and wonderful insight I learnt to expect from you.

Mladen - Above you quote a portion of the text when Cersei slips her hand through the bars of the lion's cage and it licks her fingers. This is an interesting quote for many reasons, but what struck me about it is that, first, Cersei's "story" is extremely self aggrandizing. She is braver and bolder than her twin bother. She is the one with courage, fearless facing a caged beast. This little snippet reveals so much about Cersei's character: her competiveness, her need to win at all costs, her disregard for her own safety in pursuit of this aim. When Jaime pulls her hand out of the cage, with some force, she has great swelling pride at her accomplishment. Later on, her twin, Jaime, who prevented possible injury to her hand in this scence, will, while in service to the great Lion, Tywin, lose his sword hand to one of Tywin's other rough beasts.

Great observation. While this touches the future essays, and I hate to jump forward, I will add couple of things. I see this scene also as Cersei's domination over Jaime, the recognition he is more reasonable than she is. Of course, she would never see it that way. Remember when she said to him that she should have been born with a penis. I find Cersei quite interesting for she shows clear psychological desire to be member of the opposite sex. She is the lion trapped in female body. Her recklessness, sexual games with Taena, emasculation of Jaime and idea of being true heir of her father makes Cersei such delicious character. Symbolically, she is lioness, symbol of infidelity throughout the centuries, but she is neither mother, nor wife nor even sister. Her motherhood, although recognizable with her killer instincts to protect her cubs, is on the other hand, quite questionable. She is no obedient wife, for in her marriage, it's undeterminable who is wearing the pants, and as a sister, she positiones herself as equal to her brothers. Cersei, undoubtedly, is a bitter woman whose frustration comes from Mother's nature worse curse - the wrong gender.

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So the lions liked lannisters?

These were caged lions, that spent their lives in captivity. As scientists always say, 'a zoo animal is not an animal'. So I imagine this isn't about likability, it's about just tamed lions, and Cersei's courage to touch them. It has no metaphorical meaning, in the direction you suggested.

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These were caged lions, that spent their lives in captivity. As scientists always say, 'a zoo animal is not an animal'. So I imagine this isn't about likability, it's about just tamed lions, and Cersei's courage to touch them. It has no metaphorical meaning, in the direction you suggested.

I forget, but are there any Lions left in The Rock or at all in the Westerlands?

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I forget, but are there any Lions left in The Rock or at all in the Westerlands?

Leaf says they are gone in the wild at least.

"Gone down into the earth … Into the stones, into the trees. Before the First Men came all this land that you call Westeros was home to us, yet even in those days we were few. The gods gave us long lives but not great numbers, lest we overrun the world as deer will overrun a wood where there are no wolves to hunt them. That was in the dawn of days, when our sun was rising. Now it sinks, and this is our long dwindling. The giants are almost gone as well, they who were our bane and our brothers. The great Lions of the Western Hills have been slain, the Unicorns are all but gone, the Mammoths down to a few hundered. The Direwolves will outlast us all, but their time will come as well. In the world that men have made, there is no room for them, or us."

I've never been sure if it is metaphorical or just stating a fact.

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I forget, but are there any Lions left in The Rock or at all in the Westerlands?

The great lions of the western hills have been slain, the unicorns are all but gone, the mammoths down to a few hundred. The direwolves will outlast us all, but their time will come as well. In the world that men have made, there is no room for them, or us.”

BRAN's POV, ADWD

In Cersei's memory, it;s one of the last lions, and it was caged. There are lions in Essos, but no more in Westeros.

edit: ninja'd by Morienthar

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I don't know. . . No long ago in Las Vegas there was a "wild cat" act by a team called Sigfried and Roy. It seems that one of those "tame" and "trained" cats grew weary with pretending to be a "wild cat" and went wild, nearing killing one of his team of trainers. This probably gives rise to the expression, "you can take an animal out of the wild, but you can't take the wild out of an animal."

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These were caged lions, that spent their lives in captivity. As scientists always say, 'a zoo animal is not an animal'. So I imagine this isn't about likability, it's about just tamed lions, and Cersei's courage to touch them. It has no metaphorical meaning, in the direction you suggested.

Ok
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Leaf says they are gone in the wild at least.

"Gone down into the earth … Into the stones, into the trees. Before the First Men came all this land that you call Westeros was home to us, yet even in those days we were few. The gods gave us long lives but not great numbers, lest we overrun the world as deer will overrun a wood where there are no wolves to hunt them. That was in the dawn of days, when our sun was rising. Now it sinks, and this is our long dwindling. The giants are almost gone as well, they who were our bane and our brothers. The great Lions of the Western Hills have been slain, the Unicorns are all but gone, the Mammoths down to a few hundered. The Direwolves will outlast us all, but their time will come as well. In the world that men have made, there is no room for them, or us."

I've never been sure if it is metaphorical or just stating a fact.

In Cersei's memory, it;s one of the last lions, and it was caged. There are lions in Essos, but no more in Westeros.

edit: ninja'd by Morienthar

Oh, I'd have liked to have seen some Lions in ASOIAF. :(

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