Surprising Lannister ancestor?

[Lord Varys]

I know that, which is why I really assume that she has had a son.

And by the way, I'm not sure that Dunk did indeed impregnate Rohanne (or shared her bed). Nothing in TMK indicates as much, or does it? He thinks of her, yes, but not in a way that indicates that they were intimate. Yes, I know GRRM is good in hiding stuff Dunk does not want to think about, but I really think we'd know it if he'd finally gotten to the girl thing...

[RumHam]

especially during most of the time Aerion was alive and at court with them.

Wait, he comes back to Westeros before he dies? I did not know that.

[Mychel_Redfort]

And by the way, I'm not sure that Dunk did indeed impregnate Rohanne (or shared her bed). Nothing in TMK indicates as much, or does it? He thinks of her, yes, but not in a way that indicates that they were intimate. Yes, I know GRRM is good in hiding stuff Dunk does not want to think about, but I really think we'd know it if he'd finally gotten to the girl thing...

Well maybe I'm naive but I'm with you here. The text suggests no such thing.

Dunk grabbed her braid and pulled her face to his. It was awkward with the crutch and the difference in their heights. He almost fell before he got his lips on hers. He kissed her hard. One of her hands went around his neck, and one around his back. He learned more about kissing in a moment that he had ever known from watching. But when they finally broke apart, he drew his dagger. "I know what I want to remember you by, m'lady."

It's his dagger he drew, not anything else ;) Then in MTK, when he finds himself suddenly carrying the naked bride, it's Tanselle he thinks first :

Dunk had no notion where Lord Butterwell's bedchamber was to be found, but the other men pushed and prodded him until he got there, by which time the bride was red-faced, giggling, and nearly naked, save for the stocking on her left leg, which had somehow survived the climb. Dunk was crimson too, and not from exertion. His arousal would have been obvious if anyone had been looking, but fortunately all eyes were the bride. Lady Butterwell looked nothing like Tanselle, but having the one squirming half-naked in his arms had started Dunk thinking about the other. Tanselle Too-Tall, that was her name, but she was not too tall for me. He wondered if he would ever find her again. There had been some nights when he thought he must have dreamed her. No, lunk, you only dreamed she liked you.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Wait, he comes back to Westeros before he dies? I did not know that.

Yes :)

Lastly, (iv), well, Aerion Brightfire did not stay in Lys all his life, only a few years. He may have fathered a few bastards there, which would mean Dany has "relatives" of a sort in Lys... but they would be very distant relatives, from the wrong side of the blanket.

[History of Westeros]

Hey guys, finally able to spend some time on here after the hectic weekend, recording an episode on "The Mountain and the Viper" and of course, real life stuff.

So much great analsyis here already, I feel like all I need to do is clarify a few things!

It's funny that I don't have a great handle on some of this yet despite all the notes we took during the reading. I was so busy writing down everything I could I didn't have time to stop and think. Whenever I did stop to think I regretted it because it meant I missed the next thing George read.

I actually went "whoah" a few times out loud and said "WOW!" kinda loudly when he mentioned Bloodraven and the Great Council and Dunk slaying Daemon III.

First, I'd like to nail down the tree back to Gerold as much as possible.

So if I have this right:

Gerold the Golden had 4 sons with Rohanne Webber and perhaps one or more with his first, but none survived long enough to matter, it seems. No names.

The 4 sons were the twins Tybald and Tion, followed by Tytos and then Jason. Tybald and Tion didn't procreate.

Tytos and Jeyne Marbrand had Tywin, Kevan, Genna, Tygett and Gerion (in that order).

Jason and Marla Prester had a bunch of kids including Stafford and Joanna. Unaware of any other names. Jason also had several bastards (13 total kids including bastards, it seems).

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Wow, 13 kids in total for Jason? That's a lot of bastards...

Wonder what happened to them all. Any idea?

[Lord Varys]

On Aerion:

That has been for a very long time. In THK, Maekar speaks about 'a few years', meaning that he way well return during the reign of Aerys I. But it has already been stated in the books, that Maekar called all his sons - i.e. Daeron, Aerion, Aemon, and Aegon - to court, when he ascended the Iron Throne.

That should have been great fun, I imagine... Somewhat like a breakfast with Alicent, Rhaenyra, Otto, Daemon, Ser Harwin, Criston Cole, and Laenor Velaryon.

We also know from the App, that Daeron was Prince of Dragonstone during Maekar's reign, and we have known for quite some time as well that Aemon served Daeron as his maester (i.e. on Dragonstone). Thus Dunk and Egg would have had really fun with Aerion as their drinking buddy during the time they spent at court.

On Jason's children:

The legitimate ones could be Ser Damion and Margot Lannister (or their parents). We have no clue how old Damion or Margot are. They are described as Tywin's (more distant) cousins in the Lannister appendices, if I'm not mistaken.

Since I'm working on the App right now:

From Egg's entry:

'Aegon’s reign was still a troubled one, however –in part owing to conflicts with the nobility over his efforts to improve the lives of the smallfolk and in part because of his sons, who all broke the betrothals Aegon had made for them and instead followed their hearts.

The turmoil of his reign made Aegon obessesed with the idea of restoring dragons to Westeros. And this obsession ultimately led to the tragedy at Summerhall in 259 AC – a fire that killed Aegon V, his eldest son, and others of the royal court. Aegon was succeeded by his second son.'

That sort of confirms my theory that Egg was indeed motivated by the relative powerlessness he had as king, when compared to the Targaryen kings who commanded dragons. He thought he would be more free to do what he wanted/thought necessary with dragons at his back...

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

But wouldn't "more distant" mean they were more distand than Joanna and Stafford? Damion was described as a "more distant cousin" after Joanna and Stafford had been mentioned, and Margot as a "cousin still more distant". That would suggest they aren't siblings of each other, at least, and that they definitly aren't a sibling to Joanna and Stafford.

[Lord Varys]

Yeah, I know.

Could be that the men died without issue (or their children died), and the women who ended up marrying into other families, are dead during the series, too.

[Bael's Bastard]

I'm still skeptical that Egg was ever concerned with hatching actual dragons, and think this is probably propaganda.

[Mithras]

I'm still skeptical that Egg was ever concerned with hatching actual dragons, and think this is probably propaganda.

Aemon looks like he was obsessed with the prophecy Aerys read and the dreams Daeron dreamed. Egg also mentioned them and they were close.

[J. Stargaryen]

Fwiw, I don't think Dunk and Lady Rohanne slept together during TSS, either.

[Bael's Bastard]

Aemon looks like he was obsessed with the prophecy Aerys read and the dreams Daeron dreamed. Egg also mentioned them and they were close.

I have no doubt that Egg (and Aemon, Rhaegar, etc) had a genuine interest in prophecy regarding TPTWP. I am just skeptical that he made any attempt to hatch actual dragons at Summerhall, and think that might be propaganda after the fact. I think Rhaella's child was the only "dragon" Egg was concerned about "hatching" at Summerhall.

[lojzelote]

Wow, this thread sprang to life again. One would expect that after the reveal it will die a quiet death, but no. :)

I have no doubt that Egg (and Aemon, Rhaegar, etc) had a genuine interest in prophecy regarding TPTWP. I am just skeptical that he made any attempt to hatch actual dragons at Summerhall, and think that might be propaganda after the fact. I think Rhaella's child was the only "dragon" Egg was concerned about "hatching" at Summerhall.

Why would the Targaryens care for propaganda that they failed to hatch the dragon eggs yet again and it cost the King and his son (as well as other people) their lives? The accounts were writen during their rule, right? Because this is something that the Baratheon regime would be more likely to spread to compromise the previous dynasty, but the time of Egg is kinda too distant for them to bother, IMHO.

Also, it sounds kinda Martineque that Egg would misunderstand the message of the prophecy. Not to mention that dragons may be important for the Prince That Was Promised prophecy, too.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I'm still skeptical that Egg was ever concerned with hatching actual dragons, and think this is probably propaganda.

Well, Egg did tell Dunk something like "wouldn't it be splendid if my egg was the one to hatch?". In my eyes, that's a bit of foreshadowing right there.

Fwiw, I don't think Dunk and Lady Rohanne slept together during TSS, either.

Yeah, I don't think it either.

I was starting to wonder if I had missed something, despite having read that story multiple times.

[History of Westeros]

I edited my post to change what it says about Gerold's first wife.

Regarding the 13 kids, I actually think Lord Varys told me that one, (Varys, do remember where we got this number?). I don't think it was in the reading.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

As to Jason: he had his first bastard at age 13, and got a girl pregnant by the age of 15, at which point he was made to marry her, but she eventually died in childbirth. Do we know if the child survived?

As to Gerold: Do we have any indication about his age when he died? Or his age when he got married to Rohanne or his first wife?

[Bael's Bastard]

Wow, this thread sprang to life again. One would expect that after the reveal it will die a quiet death, but no. :)

Why would the Targaryens care for propaganda that they failed to hatch the dragon eggs yet again and it cost the King and his son (as well as other people) their lives? The accounts were writen during their rule, right? Because this is something that the Baratheon regime would be more likely to spread to compromise the previous dynasty, but the time of Egg is kinda too distant for them to bother, IMHO.

Also, it sounds kinda Martineque that Egg would misunderstand the message of the prophecy. Not to mention that dragons may be important for the Prince That Was Promised prophecy, too.

Not really sure when the story that Egg was trying to hatch dragons was first spread, or by whom. Maesters? Singers? Personally, I lean toward the crackpot that Aerys and Tywin were responsible for Summerhall. They would have good reason to portray it as Egg's own doing. Aerys himself was a victim of Egg's apparent belief in PTWP prophecy.

[History of Westeros]

For those wondering how Gerold could've married Rohanne, it was said that he was genuinely in love with her, so any concerns about rank are moot.

It was said that Gerold was punished by the gods for kinslaying his niece Sarelle and brother Tybolt. This came in the form of several tragedies that befell him, namely the disappearance of Rohanne and the death of some sons.

If his first wife had died after he became Lord, most likely this would be considered one of the tragedies that befell. So assuming she died, it would've been before he was lord. Divorce is possible, as is the possibility that they didn't get along, which would mean he might not care so much about her death.

[Bael's Bastard]

Thank you for all of this information!