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Maia

Surprising Lannister ancestor?

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PRL,

In the other thread, Ran clarified: "I'm talking specifically the Lannisters as of the novels, not ancient Lannisters. So the surprising person is rather a lot more recent than Lann."

Perhaps a hint is that Ran talks about a surprising "person", not a surprising "family". If we were talking about Stark, Targaryen, Tarly or Tarbeck he wouldn't have said "person", I suppose. So we should think of families with a single prominent character.

This gives me the impression it is either someone very low born or someone very famous.

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I'd it find it much more funny if Tywin's or Tytos's mother was a Stark/Martell/Tyrell/Greyjoy, some of the houses the Lannisters are now fighting against. Thus far removed such a kinship would no longer matter all that much. That is, as long as Tywin's mother was not Baratheon. Then Cersei may actually be heir to her children and/or to Shireen.

A Targaryen in the recent past is quite unlikely, I think, since Tywin would most likely not press Aerys all that much for a royal match when he himself was son/grandson of a Targaryen.

More likely - and actually not so surprising - would be the revelation if Tywin was half/quarter Reyne or Tarbeck. They were among the most powerful houses of the West, and thus they could have delivered brides to the Casterly Rock. This could complicate the chain of events leading to Tywin's move against Castamere and Tarbeck Hall. We have to keep in mind that Tywin's mother apparently was already dead when Tywin moved against the Reynes/Tarbecks, and considering his personality he would have ignored the fact that he himself was closely related to the rebelling family if his mother/grandmother was already dead.

well that would put and end to all that "destroy your house root and stem" business lol

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i dont think it is ever said how old he is and i dont really think he can be an an ancestor but i reckon pycelle is a lannister. was thinking that maybe we will find out now that he is dead, does anyone know if maesters get their names back when they die and where their bones go? because if his bones are shipped back to the rock thats the only way i can see it being revealed.

the conversation with brown ben plumm that makes you think he is related to the dragons could just as easily be revealing he is related to tyrion through some distant plumm?

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I don't know about Pycelle being a Lannister but I would guess he is originally from the Westerlands.

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i dont think it is ever said how old he is and i dont really think he can be an an ancestor but i reckon pycelle is a lannister. was thinking that maybe we will find out now that he is dead, does anyone know if maesters get their names back when they die and where their bones go? because if his bones are shipped back to the rock thats the only way i can see it being revealed.

the conversation with brown ben plumm that makes you think he is related to the dragons could just as easily be revealing he is related to tyrion through some distant plumm?

Even if Pycelle was a Lannister, I doubt he would be one of the current bunches ancestors. Interestingly Martin did say, that Pycelle would argue he was serving the realm. I think amongst other reasons he genuinely believed Tywin was the best man to govern and wanted him in power.

Being related to the Plumm's is a possiblity, but I would not consider it surprising.

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I've long harbored the sneaking suspicion that the fabled Lann the Clever from the Age of Heroes (or whatever) was a woman. That's why I think it's surprising!

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PRL,

In the other thread, Ran clarified: "I'm talking specifically the Lannisters as of the novels, not ancient Lannisters. So the surprising person is rather a lot more recent than Lann."

Perhaps a hint is that Ran talks about a surprising "person", not a surprising "family". If we were talking about Stark, Targaryen, Tarly or Tarbeck he wouldn't have said "person", I suppose. So we should think of families with a single prominent character.

Hm... So, it looks like it must be somebody seen or mentioned in Dunk and Egg novellas, then? Hm... nobody comes to mind. Bloodraven was never married, IIRC, and had no anknowledged bastards, it couldn't have been a true-born Targ or Aerys's pretext for rejecting Cersei wouldn't work, Butterwell makes no sense...

Curve-ball - Dunk himself. Maybe he is not Brienne's ancestor, but that of the current crop of Lannisters. Tywin's grand-dad - wouldn't it be fun? After all, Lord Tytos was a third son, never expected to inherit and Dunk, while low-born, eventually became quite close to the royal family and may have married well. :).

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Bloodraven was never married, IIRC, and had no anknowledged bastards

Bloodraven's lover was his half-sister Shiera Seastear. Thinking about it, they had a very long realationship, so it stands to reason to assume they had offspring. A daughter of the couple could be Joana Lannister's mother, and it would be really surprising.

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I bet it is that Lann the Clever was a dwarf.

That would not be very surprising, would it? Also, the 'ancestor' is apparently much closer to our current book Lannister, not back in mythical times.

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Tywin's mother is actually!!!...

Mistress. Not wife. If that was Tywin's mother he'd be a bastard and would be called Tywin Hill, not Lannister.

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Even if Pycelle was a Lannister, I doubt he would be one of the current bunches ancestors. Interestingly Martin did say, that Pycelle would argue he was serving the realm. I think amongst other reasons he genuinely believed Tywin was the best man to govern and wanted him in power.

Being related to the Plumm's is a possiblity, but I would not consider it surprising.

I think B.B. Plumm is related to Maynard Plumm, and Viserys Plumm. Maybe Plumm being related via Bloodraven.

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Mistress. Not wife. If that was Tywin's mother he'd be a bastard and would be called Tywin Hill, not Lannister.

Tywin wouldn't know this of course. It would be secret.

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Tywin wouldn't know this of course. It would be secret.

It's impossible no one knows whose pussy Tywin came out from. And Tywin being so powerful there's no way one of his enemies wouldn't use it against him.

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It's impossible no one knows whose pussy Tywin came out from. And Tywin being so powerful there's no way one of his enemies wouldn't use it against him.

his father would have kept it hidden from Tywin.

And it would be poetic justice.

"wherever whores go" when his mother was one.

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Yeah. I think Lann was a dwarf too. That would be awesome. It run in their blood :box:

That would make sense if it's a recessive gene, like harlequins disease, and requires both parents to be carriers, as both being Lannisters Joanna and Tywin would both carry it.

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his father would have kept it hidden from Tywin.

And it would be poetic justice.

"wherever whores go" when his mother was one.

I cannot see Tywin's mother being a whore. It would be public knowledge and there was no way Tywin would not know. It might be further down the line, though. I am leaning towards a Bolton or a Blackfyre.

That would make sense if it's a recessive gene, like harlequins disease, and requires both parents to be carriers, as both being Lannisters Joanna and Tywin would both carry it.

A lot of people have thought that Lann would be a dwarf, myself included. He never seems to be much of a fighter, but is always using his wits to get ahead. In many ways just like Tyrion.

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I think it's really implausible that the well-read, witty Tyrion would never find out, and later never reflect or remark on the fact that the founder of House Lannister is rumored to be an "Imp", just like himself. No, I simply don't see it.

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Tywin's mother is actually!!!...

But Kevan recalls that Tytos' mistress was wearing the clothes and jewellery that they originally belonged to Tytos' wife, Lady Lannister. Tywin was the first born son of Tytos. I find it hard to believe that the mistress is Tywin's mother.

It would definately be ironic if it turned out that the mother of Tywin Lannister was a whore or lowborn, but in that case it would have been mentioned by now.

Bloodraven's lover was his half-sister Shiera Seastear. Thinking about it, they had a very long realationship, so it stands to reason to assume they had offspring. A daughter of the couple could be Joana Lannister's mother, and it would be really surprising.

But wouldn't that connect the Targaryens to the Lannisters as well?

I think that it is quite possible for the Lannisters to be related to the Blackwoods, and in that case that creates a strange connection between Bloodraven Bran and Jaime.

Also Shiera was famous for a defect: one eye blue and the other green. Perhaps, this explains why Tyrion has eterochromia as well.

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