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Mr Smith

(Book Spoilers) Sand Snakes or Sand Snake?

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I'd be very surprised if Oberyn's daughters weren't compressed into one character. Whether they pop up next season or the one after is a matter for debate, but as far as I can think there's no reason for more than one of them.

I know Obara is sent to track down Darkstar, but surely Balon Swann could do that on his own?

I also expect that they'll be merging certain aspects of their personalities with Arienne.

Of course, another option is to merge them into Arienne to the point of omitting the Sand Snakes altogether.

Thoughts?

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It's hard to know what they'll do with the Dornish plot at this stage. I don't doubt that Oberyn will be introduced next season but any further than that - I'm not sure.

I wouldn't be totally surprised if they chose to omit the entirety of the Dornish subplot, as they would forced to introduce several new locations, actors, sets and props which they probably cannot afford to do for such a minor arc.

My hope is that they have Arianne (and maybe even Quentyn) travel to Dorne with the Viper and never actually go to Dorne, as neither Quentyn nor Arianne's arc particularly centred in Dorne itself.

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I wouldn't be totally surprised if they chose to omit the entirety of the Dornish subplot, as they would forced to introduce several new locations, actors, sets and props which they probably cannot afford to do for such a minor arc.

Prior to the second season I would have called BS on this, but with the amount of changes they've already made this doesn't seem that far fetched. MAYBE they have some stuff set in Sunspear (and just remove all other Dorne locations), as it would be easier to sort out briefly filming in a city than across a desert, but even that seems suspect at this point

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The suggestions range from cutting all of Dorne except Oberyn to going strictly by the book. So, not sure at all ;-)

I see most of the sand snakes as just being off-screen and if we get some, we will get the ones "in different story locations", i.e. Sarella with Sam can't really be merged with Arianne, if she's important... Obara on the other hand, her actions so far (!) can be done by Arianne. But then we don't know how she affects the story in the last few unpublished books...

(Actually, I just see the need for one new set with Dorne: the Water Gardens - or the palace in sunspear. All the meetings can happen there and in 'generic' 'Moroccan' desert).

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If they're including Oberyn, I can't see them omitting the Dornish sub-plot, otherwise having Oberyn champion Tyrion for the sake of revenge would make no sense. The other characters need to be there to make the audience understand why the Martell's hate the Lannisters so much, and there support for Aegon in TWOW could be crucial to the plot.

One character I think they could cut is Quentyn. I always felt like he was a pointless character, the Martell's can have the intention of joining Dany when she arrives in Westeros without sending Quentyn to her. It would also save them the trouble of Arienne's attempted Queenmaking, since she wouldn't be jealous of Quentyn. And we can safely say he wont have any further role to play :P

The Sand Snakes are a little different. We've got two of them heading to Kings Landing, which I think could be seriously important, while Arienne, last we heard, was heading to meet Aegon, so I'm not sure she can take Nymeria and Tyene's place.

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If they're including Oberyn, I can't see them omitting the Dornish sub-plot, otherwise having Oberyn champion Tyrion for the sake of revenge would make no sense. The other characters need to be there to make the audience understand why the Martell's hate the Lannisters so much, and there support for Aegon in TWOW could be crucial to the plot.

One character I think they could cut is Quentyn. I always felt like he was a pointless character, the Martell's can have the intention of joining Dany when she arrives in Westeros without sending Quentyn to her. It would also save them the trouble of Arienne's attempted Queenmaking, since she wouldn't be jealous of Quentyn. And we can safely say he wont have any further role to play :P

You may be right, but cutting only Quentyn could create plot issues depending on what happens when Dany eventually meets the rest of the Martells.

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I would expect at least one Sand Snake to show up, and Arianne. One sly/seductive (Arianne, presumably) and one tough fighter (Obara, perhaps in Sarella's storyline) seems like what they'd go for. There will also have to be mention of at least one brother for Arianne, since Myrcella was sent there to be betrothed to one. Quentyn may be cut, though, and the rest of the Sand Snakes may simply be talked about but not seen. I guess one Sand Snake in Dorne and one in Oldtown is a possibility, if it'll be important in the future for Alleras to be Dornish.

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I think there is a danger with leaving out the intrigues in Dorne because they will become more important later. Especially when something happens to Tommen (and it will) and Myrcella is thrust into the forefront. To that end, I see Doran, Arianne, Arys, Areo and Darkstar as essential to arc through A Feast For Crows. However, I do like the Sand Snakes and how they are trying to mobilize Dorne out of vengeance. Blending them into one character doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me, but there is one easy fix to synthesize the Dornish characters:



Replace Drey, Garin and Sylva with Obara, Nymeria and Tyene. This would allow the Sand Snakes to develop a little bit more before they are deployed on their respective missions.



That said, I don't think it would be wise to cut out the Dornish plot because the show is catching up with the books and cutting out that much content doesn't seem a good idea. If anything, the intrigue in Dorne could be developed and extrapolated a bit more.


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I'm certain that the Dorne plot will become very important later on in the books, so I don't think it's gonna be cut, like some people think. Rather, they may cut a little here and there. Arianne and Doran will definitely be the two major characters in the Dorne storyline, along with Ellaria (who I think will return to Dorne early in season 5. No way they're gonna get rid of Indira Varma that easily). Arys and Darkstar will aslo be there, but Hotah will either be cut entirely or just become a background character, sorta like the Kingsguard in King's Landing.



When it comes to the Sand Snakes, I'm a little uncertain. We don't know how big a part they're gonna play yet. I think Nymeria and Tyene won't get cut, as they'll have stuff to do in King's Landing. Also, I imagine Sarella becoming a bigger character in Oldtown in TWOW, so they'll have to keep her. Some people theorize that Aegon will be falling for Elia Sand, and if that's the case I then they need to include her. Otherwise, cut her. Obara could also be there, but might as well be a background character.


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If the Dornish plot is included (and I hope it is) then I think we are likely to see two Sand Snakes, not including Sarella in Oldtown:

Tyene - likely unchanged. Will be sent to befriend the High Septon.

Nymeria/Obara - a combination between the two. Will be sent to hint the Darkstar

Book!Nymeria's task to claim a seat on the small council can easily be taken by Ellaria, who has already been cast.

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Don't forget that the producers have more money to spend now. They might not have to trim the Dornish plot too much, particularly since they keep getting flak for the show's lily white image. I could see them casting Quentyn's entire retinue, since half of them die quickly.


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Just limit them to 2 or at most 3 instead of 8. Same way they limited Davos' sons to 1. You can still have quite a storyline with a couple of Oberyn's bastards. The southern equivalent of Jon Snow's adventures in the North.


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They'll have to retain Serella, and they'll need some combination or Nym Tyine and Arianne. Obara and the other sandsnakes seem pretty useless and disposable. Considering how intricate this would have to be (more so than the other cuts made), I assume this is something D&D discussed with GRRM already, and he's given them some pointers on how they could cut and paste.


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