Masonic and Templar references in ASOIAF

[King of Winters]

King of the Starks, I am all up for it. I think it would really contribute to the pool of knowledge on this topic to explore the initiation rituals. The floor is yours my friend.

Well with the things I said above Freemasons also have to beat thier left breast and the other Freemasons put a sword to it and say some words. You can't see the front of the Maester initiation drawing but to me looking at the two comparisons they look really similar. And how there are three people around the Maester as he's being initiated, also reminds me of the Freemasons a bit as there are two main people helping the new Freemason and the new Freemason himself.

Also are there indications of a Maester symbol in the series?

[thewingedwolf]

Also are there indications of a Maester symbol in the series?

The chain seems to be one dominant symbol. But if we are looking for something like a sigil I guess we need to see a seal from the Citadel or something.

[thecryptile]

thewingedwolf, great theory-- very interesting.

[thewingedwolf]

thewingedwolf, great theory-- very interesting.

Thank you, feel free to add to it if you want!

[King of Winters]

The chain seems to be one dominant symbol. But if we are looking for something like a sigil I guess we need to see a seal from the Citadel or something.

If we did have a sigil or something then I'd thought would it be like the compass and square or at least similar.

[thewingedwolf]

Before I start this post I want to thank Butterbumps! whose post on Harrenhal as the capital of the Seven kingdoms has inspired what I am about to write.

Central to both Templar and Masonic imagery is the Temple of Solomon, a mythical structure from Jerusalem that is said to have been the largest and most impressive structure of its time before it was razed by King Nabuchadnezzar II of Babylon in 587 BC. Since then, it was never rebuilt to its past glory but several passing and invading forces have occupied its ruins, the Kings of Jerusalem, the Knights Templar and after Jerusalem was lost, Al Aqsa Mosque stood over the "Temple Mount".

Now this has come to remind me a lot of Harrenhal which holds tremendous significance both politically (it is constantly referred to as "The Seat of Kings") and religiously, it faces the God's Eye where the CoTF and First Men made their peace. Moreover, most rulers of Harrenhal have done so only "in passing", never restoring nor improving the ruined castle.

What is even more interesting is a passage, the Testament of Solomon, a pseudepigraphical work from Christian sources which states that Solomon built its temple using a magical ring given to him by Archangel Gabriel. That ring, in turn, allowed him to control an army of demons. This, I cannot help but relate to Brandon the Builder, whose construction of the Wall, Winterfell and his contribution to arguably Storm's End using some magic from the CoTF. That magic may very well have involved some type of control over giants or other creatures to help those construction.

I am aware that these relationships are not 1 to 1 and happened over large periods of time but the overlapping similarities are hard to ignore.

Edit: Also the concpet of some magical artifacts being buried under a structure with occult and magical powers is central to both Westeros (the crypts of winterfell, etc.) as it is in Templar mythology, the templars after dug under the stables of the Former Temple of Solomon and arguably found their most prized possession which is believed to be either the Holy Grail or the Ark of the Covenant (or documents related to them).

[King Aegon The Conqueror]

yea fuck the illuminati!

[thewingedwolf]

yea fuck the illuminati!

I am not making this thread to express opinions on the topic, I am simply looking for references. I am sure there are places for that on the forums . . .

[Howling Mad]

Wow, I guess I should have paid better attention during my Masonic initiation. :rolleyes:

[thewingedwolf]

Wow, I guess I should have paid better attention during my Masonic initiation. :rolleyes:

Hahaha

[Valandui]

The Great Pyramid in Meereen has 33 levels, which is apparently a sacred number to the Ghiscari gods. A pretty obvious parallel.

[thewingedwolf]

Ya good call on that one. I tried finding information as to whether GRRM himself was a Freemason but I could not. The signs within the story are pretty hard to ignore when you add them all up however.

[King of Winters]

Snip

Great find with the Harrenhal and The Temple of Solomon (to both you and butterbumps!).

This makes me think even more, with butterbumps! post on Harrenhal, that it will be important in the future.

[thewingedwolf]

Great find with the Harrenhal and The Temple of Solomon (to both you and butterbumps!).

This makes me think even more, with butterbumps! post on Harrenhal, that it will be important in the future.

Its kind of an amalgamation of many things where, like I said, there is no 1 to 1 relationship between all of these but rather a complex pieces of a puzzle. Sure makes this fun!!!

[three-eyed monkey]

Great topic, look forward to seeing this thread develop. Off the top of my head, Bran the Builder always makes me think of Hiram Abiff, I suppose it might apply to Baelor as well. The Many-Faced God has a masonic undertone too imo. I think that they even have a chequer-board floor in the House of Black and White iirc. I also seem to remember coming across a lot of masonic numerology during various reads, though [ahem] none come to mind just now. I also agree that there is a freemasonic influence in GRRM's imagining of the maesters. They are trying to replace magic and superstition with a more scientific approach it could be argued, an age of enlightenment of sorts, in their eyes at least. However, like religions or houses or regions, I don't think there is a direct parallel. GRRM picks and chooses and matches as he sees fit.

[King of Winters]

Its kind of an amalgamation of many things where, like I said, there is no 1 to 1 relationship between all of these but rather a complex pieces of a puzzle. Sure makes this fun!!!

Definitely does.

Are there any more things in this subject? You said you were having a difficult time with the religion thing. How's that going?

[thewingedwolf]

Definitely does.

Are there any more things in this subject? You said you were having a difficult time with the religion thing. How's that going?

Well the temple of Solomon was a start. I am re-readign The Holy Blood and The Holy Grail so hopefully something in there will spark a connection but so far it is dryer than the desert where the Templars fought their battles. I am pretty busy with work this week but its a 3 day weekend so I should have some time.

[thewingedwolf]

Good evening fellow posters,

First off, allow me to thank everyone who posted references to Masonic and templar references. Your contribution was both appreciated and helpful in putting this together. Special thanks to King of the Starks who has been a willing participant in my madness from the beginning.

In my first post, I mentioned that this was made more difficult by the lack of religious relics such as The Holy Grail or the Ark of the Covenant in Westeros. And, since I made this post, the though of finding out the Westerosi Holy Grail has, to say the least, haunted me.

The I began of re-read of The Holy Blood and The Holy Grail, one of the books I cited as a source in the OP and the reference in terms of the history and mystique of the Knights Templar. Only this time, I completely forgot about ASOIAF and actually focused on the story itself. A look at some other work as well as finding some old copy of the story of King Arthur and Knights of the round table have caused me to have an epiphany that I will now share with you.

I admit that I am still some excited about my discovery, I will do my best to structure my writing and make it as coherent as possible but feel free to ask me about any section that may seem disconnected as I fear my thoughts may run faster than my hands can type.

In a previous post, I lined Bran the Builder to the mysticism of Solomon and the construction of his famous temple, it is only when I linked that to some of the Arthurian legends (namely those related to Excalibur) that I finally found my Holy Grail. In order to correctly lay out my argument, allow me to lay some more comparisons I have found to be the basis of my argument:

Dawn as Excalibur – Both swords are not passed on through heredity but must be earned (Excalibur being pulled out of a stone and Dawn for the Sword in morning). Excalibur was told to “blind its enemies with light” and Dawn is described in Ned’s feevr dream to be Alive with light).

Ser Arthur Dayne as King Arthur – Aside from the obvious name resemblance (which don’t think is coïcidence), Ser Arthur Dayne was believed to be the model of chivalry in his time, wielded a unique sword and died in a epic battle.

Now that this has been established, let us remember that, in Chrétien de Troyes legend, King Arthur was believed to be in the possession of the Holy Grail (the legend from Chretien de Troyes inspired Sir Walter Scott’s Ivanhoe which was, according to GRRM, a major influence on ASOIAF).

Now throughout this analysis, I will refer to both the OP and the post I made about King Solomon and Brandon the Builder, so I strongly suggest the reader covers that material in order to appreciate that which will be presented here.

First let us go back to the Tower of Joy events. It is widely assumed that R+L = J is true and my theory both relies and adds credence to the argument. The best of the Kingsguard (whom I compare to the Arthurian Knights), are there defending the allegedly abducted Lyanna and Rhaegar’s bastard son. I do not believe this to be true. If the Kingsguard stayed it was to protect the heir to the throne and something far more valuable than the bastard son of the crown prince. They were protecting the wife and legitimate heir to the throne.

Now at that time, to claim that Rhaegar and Lyanna had married and had a legitimate child was about as risky as claming that Jesus was married. However, in The Holy Blood and The Holy Grail, Baigent et al. have provided some very convincing arguments that Jesus was, in fact, married to Mary Magdalene and that they had children who went on to form the Merovingian line of French royalty. Furthermore Baigent et Al. also claimed that the fabled Holy Grail was actually the womb of Mary Magdalene who carried the children of Jesus.

Now let us tie this in with The Wall, Brandon the Builder and Solomon’s temple. As I alluded in my previous post, The Wall bears striking similarities to Solomon’s Temple as it is the most impressive structure of its time, that it was build by a legendary king and it warded with magic and is a symbol of the occult.

During the crusades, the Knights Templar took as a residence, in Jerusalem, the site of the former Temple of Solomon. It was under the stables of the Temple of Solomon that they began their architectural diggings and found, according to legend, some objects of priceless value to Christianity (arguably the Ark of the Covenant or proof that Jesus had children, or other relics that could shake the grounds of Christendom). Much like the knowledge that a legitimate son of both the North and the Targaryens would shake the very foundations of Westeros.

Now, you may think that I have finally lost what was left of my marbles but if you will allow me a few more lines, I will attempt to connect the dots for you. Jon Snow is born being defended by an Excalibur-like sword, of a union that even speaking of would be a certain death sentence (just picture yourself telling Robert Lyanna willingly married Rhaegar). He is then hidden and moved around only to find himself where, at the Wall! The very symbol of Solomon’s Temple and the very place where the Templars were said to have found the artifacts and relics that made kings and popes tremble and made them the mythical order that they are today. Supporting this in AOSIAF and the vision Dany has of a Blue Rose in the base of the Wall at the House of the Undying.

Therefore when combining all this evidence together, I believe that the Holy Grail of AOSIAF is not indeed a religious relic, but rather, as claimed in The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail represented, in the context of ASOIAF, by Lyanna Stark’s womb and her descendant Jon Snow.

Other foreshadowing:

• Mormont’s raven calling Jon “King” (the alleged descendants of Jesus and Mary Magdalene went on to becoming Kings of France)
  
• Melisandre’s view of Jon in her fires (Fire and burning people alive are strong images of Templar imagery as the Templar leaders were burnt to death in France)
  

I know this may all seem rather far-fetched and none of these relationships are 1 to 1 but I have come to believe that the evidence is too hard to ignore.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Ya good call on that one. I tried finding information as to whether GRRM himself was a Freemason but I could not. The signs within the story are pretty hard to ignore when you add them all up however.

First of all, I want to say what a great thread! I've read both of the books you reference, yet never really made a lot of these connections. Looking forward to continued reading.

As far as GRRM and Freemasonry, I highly doubt it since he was raised Catholic and there is a ban on Catholics becoming Freemasons, affirmed by the Vatican as recently as 10 years ago. While he is non-practicing or lapsed, the reasons for lapsing are generally such that joining a new religious group (yes, the Catholic Church considers Freemasonry a religion, having as it does a creed and a hierarchy of priests) would not be on the table. However, he has expressed a keen interest in spirituality. I'd be willing to bet any nods toward Freemasonry come from a childhood fascination with something "forbidden."

Anyways, thanks for your efforts! This will add yet another layer to my rereads! :)

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Good evening fellow posters,

*snip*

I hadn't read this post when I made my comment above. Let me say-bravo!

I heartily agree with the Lyanna as Grail analogy, and have discussed this both in the most recent iteration of RLJ as well as my own thread devoted to Arthurian parallels (shameless plug incoming...)

I'm on my way out at the moment, but I'm going to be giving this further thought as the day goes on. When I'm sitting on front of my computer later (rather than a mobile device ;)) I'll try for some more detailed feedback. Again, thanks for this!