Death of House Frey

[JonathanTheBold]

I really don't get how homocidal and revenge driven the Stark fan base is. People like the Starks because they're good and honest and noble, yet a large percentage of their fans seem to be blood thirsty maniacs who think nothing of the massace of innocent women and children all in the name of "justice"

How can you be a fan of Ned, who took a firm stance that the murder of innocents was wrong no matter what the situation, and then call for the blood of Walder's entire family?

Edit: To put it another way, I find it odd that most Stark fans think more like Tywin than Eddard.

This is how the world works esspescally westiros the Freys didn't something unforgivable for many reason and the only coin they have to make up for it is their lives. and what's to stop the freys who your think are innocent (even tho I'm pretty sure every Frey at the red wedding knew it was going to happen) from seeking revenge some day and around we go again the only real solution to them is to kill them all

[Mendoza]

Well, there's revenge and then there's the gods' judgement. Let Walder Frey and all of the Frey family involved in the Red Wedding being transformed into rats as the song goes.

[Ravenstooth]

Personally i would like to see most of the Frey's take the black or become headless. A Reed as lord of the crossing would also be quite pleasing to myself. haha. I think we all know in our hearts that the Riverlands have not yet finished bleeding... Lets just hope that most of that blood is Frey. haha

[Penguin king]

This is how the world works esspescally westiros the Freys didn't something unforgivable for many reason and the only coin they have to make up for it is their lives. and what's to stop the freys who your think are innocent (even tho I'm pretty sure every Frey at the red wedding knew it was going to happen) from seeking revenge some day and around we go again the only real solution to them is to kill them all

If you're going to be so cynical about it, why care about what happens to the Starks at all? There's less Starks left than Freys, and Lannisters. Kill them off and maybe the few remaining loyal Northen Lords then your circle of violence is broken. If you don't care about justice or the lives of innocents i mean...

[Mendoza]

If you're going to be so cynical about it, why care about what happens to the Starks at all? There's less Starks left than Freys, and Lannisters. Kill them off and maybe the few remaining loyal Northen Lords then your circle of violence is broken. If you don't care about justice or the lives of innocents i mean...

The Starks aren't doing anything to the Freys. They're off hidden away, learning their skills. By the times the Starks reshow themselves, the Freys might be over as a house anyway. They can't even find some outlaws. Not to mention a huge wolf pack that is tearing up the Riverlands that no one can deal with. The best way for anyone to survive is to leave that area of the Seven Kingdoms.

[Gurkhal]

The Starks aren't doing anything to the Freys. They're off hidden away, learning their skills. By the times the Starks reshow themselves, the Freys might be over as a house anyway. They can't even find some outlaws. Not to mention a huge wolf pack that is tearing up the Riverlands that no one can deal with. The best way for anyone to survive is to leave that area of the Seven Kingdoms.

Or they just lock themselves up in their castles during the winter with all their food and lets the outlaws and wolfpack starve.

[Miryana]

It makes me very sad that readers are so eager to have innocents pay for the decision of probably 2 or 3 Freys just because the a Stark is involved. A Stark who knowingly decided not to honor his betrothal after giving his word at a time when a man's word was really all there was.

The Freys get to butcher their guests and desecrate the corpses, and the Lannisters get to reward them for it and profit from their own high treason/child murders etc, and the Starks are just supposed to take it because only they should feel obliged to stick to their word and suffer for the consequences of small-scale violations? Those massive betrayals are regularly praised as justified realpolitik or at least excused on the grounds that you shouldn't expect any more from people in this violent setting. But the instant that it looks like the Starks (or Stoneheart, since the others are nowhere near Freys or Lannisters) might, might end up doing to them a tiny bit of what they did to the Starks and other innocents or bystanders, suddenly it becomes awful.

Why shouldn't the Starks get to share the benefits of butchering people? Ned was ruined for trying to apply justice and compassion equally. Robb was ruined for trying to apologise for his error and offer the Freys something to compensate for their loss. But the characters who simply massacre their enemies and any unfortunates connected to them are on top of the world; when they run into troubles they get more merciful deaths or less severe setbacks. Yet the Starks should continue to act in a way that gets them nothing in return except contempt from people who praise Tywin for finishing wars? Unlike the Freys and the Lannisters the Starks at least tried justice. It didn't work, time to adopt the methods that GRRM shows as actually succeeding in this world and the readers approve of (Jaime tries to kill a child and doesn't give a damn = badass hero for the ages, Stoneheart might kill a young Lannister squire = monster how could she). If GRRM didn't want to inspire that kind of response, he wouldn't write books where it's shown again and again that murderers are more prosperous and avoid the worst of the karma that's merciless in punishing efforts to be compassionate and law-abiding.

When the Starks try to spare innocents and be just, they're morons who deserve to die for their mistakes. When it's speculated that they might kill innocents for revenge and to improve their political situation (...like the Freys and Lannisters have actually been doing on a large scale), they're awful people who deserve to die for their wickedness (but let's keep on praising the Lannisters for doing that very thing and defending the right of Frey innocents to live since they're somehow worthier than Stark innocents were). No way to win.

[Mendoza]

Or they just lock themselves up in their castles during the winter with all their food and lets the outlaws and wolfpack starve.

Isn't that's what basically is going on at Winterfell? That place looks like a death trap for scumbags. Those wolves will have no problem surviving the winter. They are made for it. The Brotherhood will just take back Riverrun. The Freys can kill each other at the Twins for all I care with their infighting that may start. Imagine if the old bastard just dies.

[Gurkhal]

Isn't that's what basically is going on at Winterfell? That place looks like a death trap for scumbags. Those wolves will have no problem surviving the winter. They are made for it. The Brotherhood will just take back Riverrun. The Freys can kill each other at the Twins for all I care with their infighting that may start. Imagine if the old bastard just dies.

And by the time that spring comes, when someone can actually hope to make a move against the Twins, this civil war will be decided and settled and with plenty of weak Frey links cut out. I don't doubt there will be a civil war but I also think that will be the real reason for the fall of House Frey, the Brotherhood is just an annoyance beside of that. Also in regards to the wolves are they not just kind of eating smallfolk here and there? They don't strike me targeting the Freys, and unless I'm mistaken it will be hard for hundreds of wolves to stay in one geographical area for an extended period of time. I could be wrong of course but I think this huge pack will either have to dissolve or go somewhere else in time.

[Penguin king]

If the Starks are going to drop down to the level of Bolton, Frey and Lannister, then why should we support them over any other house? Their defining feature is that they're the honorable ones, the just ones, in a kingdom full of self serving nobles. If they throw that away and start acting like Tywin or Ramsey then why should we care what happens to them?

3 times Eddard made major sacrifices to avoid the taint of innocent blood on his hands. He left Kings landing over what happend to Elia and her children, He gave up the handship rather than condone assassinating Dany and her unborn child, and he ultimately gave up his life for trying to spare Cersei's children from Robert's wrath. Do people honestly think Ned would approve of the undead monster Catelyn has become, or of the Dark path Arya seems to be taking? Can anyone honestly see him swinging the blade to remove the head of four year old Walda Frey?

By calling for the deaths of innocent people, you're admiting that you think Ned was a fool, for taking the moral highground for all those years.

[GREYJOY4LYFE]

They won't be alive because they would have already tasted Stannis's justice HUZZAH! :fencing:

Well that would certainly make it convenient for the Daenerys fan base. However, if House Frey still lives I'm sure they'll bend the knee once they see dragons and Dany won't give two you know whats about the Red Wedding since she hates Starks. In this morally ambiguous world where everything is shaped by a characters' POV, it would definitely be interesting to see if the "dragon queen savior" would align herself with those that committed the single biggest act of atrocity in the series.

[Red Raven]

It wasn't just a few, 3500 of Robb's people were slaughtered so a lot of Freys had to be in on it. Plenty of guilt to go around.

Perwyn, Olyvar, and Alesander Frey were innocent, so they should be spared.

Agreed. Then send the remaining younger boys to the wall, the girls to the silent sisters. Roslin too. All she had to do was lean over and tell Edmure it was a trap. The rest: heads, spikes, walls.

[Arya kiddin']

Complete demise of Freys is so not Martin's style.

[sansa's sworn sword]

I really don't get how homocidal and revenge driven the Stark fan base is. People like the Starks because they're good and honest and noble, yet a large percentage of their fans seem to be blood thirsty maniacs who think nothing of the massace of innocent women and children all in the name of "justice"

How can you be a fan of Ned, who took a firm stance that the murder of innocents was wrong no matter what the situation, and then call for the blood of Walder's entire family?

Edit: To put it another way, I find it odd that most Stark fans think more like Tywin than Eddard.

this post is the most funny thing I read all day because its so true. coming from a fellow blood thirsty maniac. who wants everyone who has harmed house stark wiped out.

[Wisenan69]

I don't have to worry about the Freys. They are in the best hands possible: Lady Stoneheart. Thank you George!

[g.o.d]

I think the best would be if, someone drags Walder Frey out of the Twins along with his family. Then I would hang those who were involved in the Red weeding in front of him. Those who weren't involved would be released under one condition that they will never use Frey as their surname (maybe becoimng Waters instead of being Frey). Walder Frey would be still alive to witness it. Then I would tell him that from this day it's forbidden to mention name Frey, all records will be erased (don't think it's possible, but Walder needs to know that it will be done).And after that, the Twins will be completely destroyed. I would force Walder Frey to see it. And finally I would execute Walder FRey in english medieval style which was used for traitors (drawing, hanging and quatering).

[Castel]

If the Starks are going to drop down to the level of Bolton, Frey and Lannister, then why should we support them over any other house? Their defining feature is that they're the honorable ones, the just ones, in a kingdom full of self serving nobles. If they throw that away and start acting like Tywin or Ramsey then why should we care what happens to them?

3 times Eddard made major sacrifices to avoid the taint of innocent blood on his hands. He left Kings landing over what happend to Elia and her children, He gave up the handship rather than condone assassinating Dany and her unborn child, and he ultimately gave up his life for trying to spare Cersei's children from Robert's wrath. Do people honestly think Ned would approve of the undead monster Catelyn has become, or of the Dark path Arya seems to be taking? Can anyone honestly see him swinging the blade to remove the head of four year old Walda Frey?

By calling for the deaths of innocent people, you're admiting that you think Ned was a fool, for taking the moral highground for all those years.

Is avoiding the taint of innocent blood not self-serving?

[chrisdaw]

Well innocent people don't deserve to die but it won't matter much. Walder Frey only treasures his progeny so that we will get to see him outlive it before he dies himself.

[Runaway Penguin]

Death of House Frey? I guess one Jaime Lannister will have his say in it. After all who better to let them open the gates than Lord Commander with few men, on the run from a band of outlaws... ;)

Though more realistic solution would be slow economic death to weaken their position. Why the Heck did not Lord Tully build a new stone bridge a bit downstream? Anyway, if he didn't, others might. Build bridge/bridges joined with trade cities (and well garrisoned citadel castles) and watch them wither.

[Veltigar]

The Blackfish is going to kill them all: D) Attack the Twins and save Roslyn:

I think that this scenario will take place. Edmure told his uncle off Roslyns pregnancy. Edmure also told the BF that Roslyn sincerely loves him and that she didn’t want to take part in the RW. The BF also knows that Edmure’s child will never be save while the Lannisters occupy Riverrun. Especially when it’s a boy. And there are other bonuses he gets by attacking the Twins as well like for example liberating the nobles from the North and the Riverlands who are still held hostage, revenge on the Freys and a signal to the Realm. He will also have the advantage of surprise on his side.

Now how will this attack take place? Where will he find the troops to pull off such a daring attack? The answer is simple: Greywater Watch.

At Greywater watch he’ll find the soldiers of House Glover and Mormont who were sent there by Robb (+ survivors of the RW) and of course the Crannogmen.

The Crannogmen and the Freys off the crossing have had a feud for several centuries. And the Northerners hate the Frey for their betrayal. I think that the BF will propose this plan to attack the Twins and that Howland Reed will support it, even if the others are against it (He’s a pretty brave guy if you ask me). There might also be some sort of representative off the BwB there who pledges the brotherhood down for attack (In that case Hot Pie as their man on the inside could open the gates after the Crannogmen killed the watchers on the wall).

The actual attack itself will happen in the midst of the night. Crannogmen armed with poisoned arrows will kill off the guards, the BF and his outfit of crannogmen and Northerners are going to bust the Greatjon and the others out of jail and then they’ll rescue Roslyn. In the battle that follows inside the Twin most of Old Walder Freys descendants will be butchered and the Twins itself lit on fire (or at least half of it).