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Ser-Bruce-Wayne

[BOOK SPOILERS} The Lannister's send their regards.

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:dunce:

At first I thought it was Daario's, then it hit me like the crossbow bolts hit Robb.

rlly good design on that sword it screams house bolton :(

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I feel pretty confident in stating that it won't change anything at all.

Cat will still have hatred for Jaime due to the reason that he was let go and Sanda and Arya was never given back. That Jaime had no chance of giving them back will be irrelevant and possibly even unknown to Cat. The thing with forcing Brienne to kill Jaime will also be natural since there's a link between them, so it will never be relevant to send Brienne after any other Lannister.

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I don't know what it will mean in The Winds of Winter, but I'm pretty sure it means we will get an even more whitewasked Jaime on the show.

"Whitewashed" has become one of those terms like "character assassination" that get used so frequently and innapropriately on these boards that they're usually a pretty good tipoff that the poster doesn't really have anything to say.

Jaime is a sister-fucking narcissist who pushed a little kid out a window. If they meant to whitewash him, but left those things in, they don't know shit-all about whitewashing.

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Due to the lack of internal monologue, it would make many people think Jaime and Roose plotted the RW off-screen, and that could ruin Jaime's entire redemption arc.

Since the purpose of the plot was to explore betrayal, little could betray a man Catelyn considered an enemy such as Jaime Lannister.

Roose Bolton, on the other hand, was a sworn bannerman who sent his own bastard after Theon Greyjoy, one of the few who stuck around after Karstark and understood her grief for Bran & Rickon.

If the idea is to explore betrayal, this is the point where I would start.

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Yeah I knew I would get slammed for using the term whitewashing, but it's not like there has been a ban on the word. You're all probably right and I'm a bit ahead of things. I'm just concerned that after Tyrion, they will also leave out the bad stuff about Jaime. When they changed the 'send my regards', I was thinking "ugh not again". I gues we will see later on where it will be heading, untill he reaches KL and Cersie/Joffrey's body. But if they do leave that, I'm entirely entitled to use the word whitewashed!

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As much as I really, really love the "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" line, I agree with their reasoning for changing it. Due to the lack of internal monologue, it would make many people think Jaime and Roose plotted the RW off-screen, and that could ruin Jaime's entire redemption arc. At least Roose will send someone's regards to Robb, and that is enough to please me, but I'll still be in mourn for Jaime's regards :(

Basically this.

BUT just because Jaime said "the Lannisters send their regards" doesn't necessarily mean Roose has to say that same thing. He can still say only "Jaime". I'm sure their goodbye at Harrenhal will be in the recap, so the audience will get it even if the words are changed.

As far as what changing it means for tWoW... I'd argue nothing. I don't think the show has anything to do with the future books (just like if Talisa dies at the RW, I still think Jeyne could be in hiding and be pregnant). I think the show is going to write its own ending anyway.

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I've always thought Catelyn went after Jaime because of Brienne more than anything else.

She found what was basically her friend with a Lannister sword, screaming this particular Lannister's name in her sleep, with a nickname such as "the Kingslayer's whore" and a Lannister squire calling her Ser- My-Lady..

Cat will still have hatred for Jaime due to the reason that he was let go and Sanda and Arya was never given back. That Jaime had no chance of giving them back will be irrelevant and possibly even unknown to Cat. The thing with forcing Brienne to kill Jaime will also be natural since there's a link between them, so it will never be relevant to send Brienne after any other Lannister.

Not to mention the fact that, on the books, the one who swore would give her daughters back was Tyrion instead of Tywin.

If Catelyn really wanted to go after the guilty party, she would have asked Sansa to kill her Lord husband.

Not Brienne to kill the Kingslayer.

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"Whitewashed" has become one of those terms like "character assassination" that get used so frequently and innapropriately on these boards that they're usually a pretty good tipoff that the poster doesn't really have anything to say.

Jaime is a sister-fucking narcissist who pushed a little kid out a window. If they meant to whitewash him, but left those things in, they don't know shit-all about whitewashing.

And you do, don't you? First of all, maybe you should look into the definition of "whitewashing". Once you've done that, we can talk.

With this said, I really don't think Jaime has been whitewashed. Everything he's done so far was in the books too. If anything they made him worse by having him kill his cousin in season 2, but they didn't add any scene in which he appeared nicer than he was in the books. At least not so far.

The only reason why they changed that line is not to confuse viewers, who might believe Jaime was actively responsible for the massacre.

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Yeah I knew I would get slammed for using the term whitewashing, but it's not like there has been a ban on the word. You're all probably right and I'm a bit ahead of things. I'm just concerned that after Tyrion, they will also leave out the bad stuff about Jaime. When they changed the 'send my regards', I was thinking "ugh not again". I gues we will see later on where it will be heading, untill he reaches KL and Cersie/Joffrey's body. But if they do leave that, I'm entirely entitled to use the word whitewashed!

How could Jaime saying Lannisters instead of my have anything to do with whitewashing? It's just so the unsullied don't get insane because they think Jaime was a part of the plot, which he wasn't. That isn't whitewashing, that is just something that was done to make sure people won't misunderstand.

As for Tyrion, I believe he'll start to change in season 4, and the privy-scene will make him dark Tyrion (as in the books).

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Basically this.

BUT just because Jaime said "the Lannisters send their regards" doesn't necessarily mean Roose has to say that same thing. He can still say only "Jaime". I'm sure their goodbye at Harrenhal will be in the recap, so the audience will get it even if the words are changed.

As far as what changing it means for tWoW... I'd argue nothing. I don't think the show has anything to do with the future books (just like if Talisa dies at the RW, I still think Jeyne could be in hiding and be pregnant). I think the show is going to write its own ending anyway.

No regards in the recap:

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It's just so the unsullied don't get insane because they think Jaime was a part of the plot, which he wasn't. That isn't whitewashing, that is just something that was done to make sure people won't misunderstand.

Exactly. They probably don't want the people to get the wrong ideas, that's all. It will annoy some of the more hardcore book purists, but it doesn't change much, so I don't see the problem.

BTW Jamie is actually a darker character than in the books. He killed a cousin.

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The only reason why they changed that line is not to confuse viewers, who might believe Jaime was actively responsible for the massacre.

I don't buy this - how could anyone believe Jaime had been plotting the Red Wedding? He spends an entire season in captivity without any influence whatsoever and then when he per chance comes across Roose Bolton and spends, what, like a day in his company, both of them spontaneously come up with the idea that they could actually ask the Freys if they maybe would want to betray Robb, too, and kill him at their own wedding?

Additionaly, after Episode 9 we will probably see a scene or two in which Tyrion says to Tywin something like "Well done, Father; you ended the war with your plot involving the Freys and Boltons blabla", which would clarify that it was indeed Tywin who planned the whole thing (who else? Joffrey again?).

And as for "not confusing viewers" - Davin and Dan have already done enough to involuntarily confuse quite some people with their writing (the whole Robb campaign for example)

Oh and the sword is awesome btw

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I don't buy this - how could anyone believe Jaime had been plotting the Red Wedding? He spends an entire season in captivity without any influence whatsoever and then when he per chance comes across Roose Bolton and spends, what, like a day in his company, both of them spontaneously come up with the idea that they could actually ask the Freys if they maybe would want to betray Robb, too, and kill him at their own wedding?

Additionaly, after Episode 9 we will probably see a scene or two in which Tyrion says to Tywin something like "Well done, Father; you ended the war with your plot involving the Freys and Boltons blabla", which would clarify that it was indeed Tywin who planned the whole thing (who else? Joffrey again?).

And as for "not confusing viewers" - Davin and Dan have already done enough to involuntarily confuse quite some people with their writing (the whole Robb campaign for example)

Oh and the sword is awesome btw

Unsullied are unsullied.

Remember the Asha name change? Yeah.

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The Lannisters send their regards is a better line for TV. You want it clear who set this all in motion, and it wasn't Jaime. Even in the books I thought it was cute by Roose to do that

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Exactly. They probably don't want the people to get the wrong ideas, that's all. It will annoy some of the more hardcore book purists, but it doesn't change much, so I don't see the problem.

BTW Jamie is actually a darker character than in the books. He killed a cousin.

I agree. They must think the line will play differently on screen for people who only watch the show. The reader has ample evidence that Bolton is not to be trusted prior to the RW. They also have it clearly spelled out through Jaime's POV that he has no inkling of what is about to befall Robb. Without this context its possible that an unsullied viewer will infer something that isn't there.

Personally, I think they are being a bit too cautious in changing the line, even if I understand the reason. The scenes between Jaime and Bolton seemed to convey much of the same dynamics that the book did, if a little less explicitly. Additionally, having a line implicating the Lannisters in general would seem to be pointless since it will already be obvious to the viewers, and Catelyn, that the Lannisters were involved, given the title of the episode and the presence of the title song.

As for the whitewashing discussion, the "regards" line is one example of many where Jaime's peers blackwash him. If the change whitewashes anyone, its Bolton. That its a lie is pretty much the whole point of its inclusion. It would have more of an impact, as in the book, if it wasn't altered. But the altered version can still lead to the same events we know of and have no impact on the as yet unrevealed ones.

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I don't buy this - how could anyone believe Jaime had been plotting the Red Wedding?

Because not everybody pays as much attention as they should. There are book readers who thought Jaime was responsible for the RW. That should tell you enough. And don't forget the bunch of people who after 3 seasons still think Dany's first name is Khaleesi. If they left that line we would have the forum inundated by posts saying "OMG JAIME LANNISTER KILLED ROBB, SO HORRIBLE INNIT!"

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Because not everybody pays as much attention as they should. There are book readers who thought Jaime was responsible for the RW. That should tell you enough. And don't forget the bunch of people who after 3 seasons still think Dany's first name is Khaleesi. If they left that line we would have the forum inundated by posts saying "OMG JAIME LANNISTER KILLED ROBB, SO HORRIBLE INNIT!"

Absolutely spot on. I read SoS many years ago and while I remember virtually every bit of the RW, I have never in all these years understood the 'Jaime Lannister sends his regards.' (Until I finally asked someone here about it only a few weeks ago). In my mind, I was always asking...'what? shouldn't it be Tywin Lannister sends his regards?' Obviously, I had totally forgotten that little bit of conversation between Roose and Jaime, exchanging regards. So, absolutely, non-book readers would be confused, and its better than the show changed the words.

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