[BOOK SPOILERS] Nitpick without repercussion?

[Hangover of the Morning]

I wondered why the King In The North, his queen, and his mother all show up for the wedding of Lord Tully (said King's uncle) wearing their most drab outfits. I realize that they can't run off to Rodeo Drive and buy some nice formal wear; but didn't they have tailors and materials at Riverrun? Why wasn't Robb wearing a grey and white direwolf-emblazoned cloak instead of the usual furs? Why wasn't he wearing a crown? Why did his wife and mother look as fashion-challenged as the Frey women? I vaguely remember Edmure looking like he was wearing something appropriate for a high lord of Westeros getting married, but he was the only one who looked like he'd washed his hair and put on something nice. .

I actually thought that they dressed up quite nicely, just not in flashy colours. I don't remember the Starks wearing anything nicer during the feast in the honour of the King and Queen visiting Winterfell and that was the most grandiose occasion they have attended so far.

Talisa was definitely underdressed but as pointed out by Walder Frey I think it was on purpose: i) not to offend Freys by flaunting her beauty and ii) to hide her growing belly.

[Winter In My Heart]

Talisa was definitely underdressed but as pointed out by Walder Frey I think it was on purpose: i) not to offend Freys by flaunting her beauty and ii) to hide her growing belly.

Wait there was a time she actually wore something nice? LOL. And I don't see the hype. I'm not saying she's ugly or anything to that affect, but I definitely think there's a lot prettier girls in that show compared to her. (Though I admit she certainly is better looking compared to Frey girls, but that's a given. Well except Roslin.)

As far as I'm concerned she wore exactly the some sort of thing she always did.

[aFeastForDragons]

I just couldn't enjoy this episode. I have a scene in my head how the red wedding plays out with The Rains of Castamere coming on, everything goes silent, Manderly and Cat look at each other with a sudden terror, crossbow bolts fly into Rob, tables flipping, Rob's bannerman jumping in front of him to defend him, Northerner's busting in with the look that they are going to save the day and instead they cut a path through Rob's bodyguards etc

Amazing episode but its one of those things where you have an image of how something plays out. Seeing someone elses take on it just doesn't feel right.

I did however love the Yunkai LOTR style fight. We haven't seen much fighting this series so it was a welcome addition.

[Hangover of the Morning]

Wait there was a time she actually wore something nice? LOL. And I don't see the hype. I'm not saying she's ugly or anything to that affect, but I definitely think there's a lot prettier girls in that show compared to her. (Though I admit she certainly is better looking compared to Frey girls, but that's a given. Well except Roslin.)

As far as I'm concerned she wore exactly the some sort of thing she always did.

Wearing the same things as always kinda qualifies to being underdressed for a wedding, right? :cool4:

Totally agree about her looks. I don't find her attractive but I think she is supposed to be beautiful, thus my comment about Robb not wanting to insult Walder Frey buy ostentatiously displaying what a hot piece of exotic ass he got instead of settling for one of his plain daughters. I think that Talisa's unattractiveness in my eyes has more to do with the completely bland and charmless personality due to poor acting rather than the actual looks of the actress.

[Nami]

I thought it was extremelly rude for Talisa to attend the wedding. I mean, really?

book!Cat would say something to Robb about it.

[Winter In My Heart]

Wearing the same things as always kinda qualifies to being underdressed for a wedding, right? :cool4:

Totally agree about her looks. I don't find her attractive but I think she is supposed to be beautiful, thus my comment about Robb not wanting to insult Walder Frey buy ostentatiously displaying what a hot piece of exotic ass he got instead of settling for one of his plain daughters. I think that Talisa's unattractiveness in my eyes has more to do with the completely bland and charmless personality due to poor acting rather than the actual looks of the actress.

Well true. But it sounded like it was being said there was a time she actually wore something rather nice looking. Which IMO she never did.

Yes I know she is supposed to be 'beautiful' but I really don't think she is. And that's not even counting her boring personality. Heck my mom who doesn't even watch the show saw tumblr posts of the wedding and agreed Talisa isn't all that pretty. I guess it's just with all these girls around, like Dany, Margaery, Sansa, some of the whores, etc, who are very beautiful, Talisa just doesn't compare to their standard in my opinion. Plus it doesn't help she never wore anything nice looking. (One interview I saw Oona in she freaking looked stoned.) But yeah, I wouldn't say the actress is ugly or anything extreme like that, but there's much more beautiful actresses in that show in comparison, at least as far as I'm concerned.

[jeffklm]

I have such a love/hate relationship with Lady Stoneheart. I really liked Cat so having her come back and start taking revenge on Freys and Lannisters seemed like a blessing at first. It didn't take long however to realize that Robb was the lucky one and she got the short end of the stick. It is heartbreaking to watch such a compassionate character to be reduced to someone who just seeks vengeance at all costs and does not care about justice or mercy anymore. So I hate LS and hate GRRM for what he did to Cat but I also love how he shows us through her that death is not always the worst faith. Such a tragic story.

This is the way I feel too.

[Masamune]

So Talisa wasn't a spy after all?

In which case her entire character made no sense whatsoever and was shoehorned in for some faux drama, since everyone else worth caring about at the RW was written out of the show.

And yeah, Roose's stabby stab was pretty weak.

[Xydonus]

Well true. But it sounded like it was being said there was a time she actually wore something rather nice looking. Which IMO she never did.

Yes I know she is supposed to be 'beautiful' but I really don't think she is. And that's not even counting her boring personality. Heck my mom who doesn't even watch the show saw tumblr posts of the wedding and agreed Talisa isn't all that pretty. I guess it's just with all these girls around, like Dany, Margaery, Sansa, some of the whores, etc, who are very beautiful, Talisa just doesn't compare to their standard in my opinion. Plus it doesn't help she never wore anything nice looking. (One interview I saw Oona in she freaking looked stoned.) But yeah, I wouldn't say the actress is ugly or anything extreme like that, but there's much more beautiful actresses in that show in comparison, at least as far as I'm concerned.

Everyone has a different view on beauty so debating it is rather pointless. However, just to say, in the books Jeyne Westerling was considered average and nothing special. Even Jaime said so himself, while I can't remember the exact quote it was quite demeaning of her looks.

In regards to my nitpicking: I felt there wasn't enough explanation done for the serving of the dish at the start, to secure guest right and the protection of the host. While I knew what this was and what it meant, when the dish got spread around, it felt as if for non-readers (friends of mine) wouldn't understand this and it was the case when I explained to them that the Freys just broke the most sacred and most ancient law there is in Westeros.

While I did enjoy the episode, and I consider it a top episode, I do feel certain things were missing. Greatjon Umber for one, and his immense drunken rage at the wedding as the tragedy unfolds, however I can understand why this was left out, as it would be difficult to explain to the viewers (non-readers anyhow) on why Umber is getting subdued rather than killed outright while blatant murder is going all around them.

Not having Greywind do his thing and taking out a few Freys as it was in the book, is perhaps my biggest issue with the episode.

[Winter In My Heart]

Everyone has a different view on beauty so debating it is rather pointless. However, just to say, in the books Jeyne Westerling was considered average and nothing special. Even Jaime said so himself, while I can't remember the exact quote it was quite demeaning of her looks.

Um all Jaime said was she wasn't pretty enough to loose a kingdom over. He said she was pretty, just not worth loosing everything over. So no she wasn't average by any means if we have Jaime and Cat to go off of for pov's. Jeyne actually is described as quite pretty.

But who's debating? Me and the other person were pretty much in agreement. All I added on top of that was the reasoning I don't think she's beautiful is because there's much prettier characters/actresses in the show compared to her. (And they said it was primarily her personality for them). So there was no argument, and I wasn't even looking to start one. It's just a shame they didn't find a very pretty girl to play the part, because I could at least understand why Robb was so smitten with her, but IMO she's not very pretty in comparison to other girls in the show and she has a dull personality. If they hadn't done the idiotic foreign angle (and instead kept it a girl from Westeros but not an enemy daughter) the actress of Roslin was very beautiful and I could have seen Robb falling for her way more than I can with Talisa despite the fact they tried to build up this love story between them. But oh well the story is done with thankfully so they can't butcher Cat and Robb anymore, thank god. At this point I'm not sure if I'll be happy or upset if they cut out LS. Might be for the best since they just screw Cat over. At least she had very good moments this episode and deserves an Emmy.

[Hangover of the Morning]

In regards to my nitpicking: I felt there wasn't enough explanation done for the serving of the dish at the start, to secure guest right and the protection of the host. While I knew what this was and what it meant, when the dish got spread around, it felt as if for non-readers (friends of mine) wouldn't understand this and it was the case when I explained to them that the Freys just broke the most sacred and most ancient law there is in Westeros.

I know that this is a niptick without repercussion post so I apologize if this is going to sound like a criticism because it is not.

IMO, It really does not take an expert in Westerosi etiquette to understand that inviting groom's family for a wedding feast, promising them shelter and protection, getting them drunk and then slaughtering them like animals is something wrong and unusual even in that fucked up fantasy world.

I just fail to see how people that did not fully grasp the concept of guest rights even though it is explained by Walder Frey (combined with the powerful visual image of the two parties breaking bread together) and when it is quite similar to most contemporary culture's guest rights, would consider the RW to be somehow less horrific and just think of it as a "fun wedding by Dothraki standards".

Besides, we will still be dealing with the aftermaths in the episodes to come so it's likely it will be stressed out again.

[Xydonus]

"Pretty" is a very broad definition, to say shes not average would be to say average means ugly.

But as you said you can't understand why Robb fell for her, and that her role should have went to someone who was more attractive. My point is: beauty is all perception. I actually think she's quite attractive. I've read comments from others that suggest Brienne is rather attractive while I simply do not see the attraction.

So in my opinion the issue on whether or not she's attractive is moot because that relies on individual perception.

[Xydonus]

IMO, It really does not take an expert in Westerosi etiquette to understand that inviting groom's family for a wedding feast, promising them shelter and protection, getting them drunk and then slaughtering them like animals is something wrong and unusual even in that fucked up fantasy world.

I just fail to see how people that did not fully grasp the concept of guest rights even though it is explained by Walder Frey (combined with the powerful visual image of the two parties breaking bread together) and when it is quite similar to most contemporary culture's guest rights, would consider the RW to be somehow less horrific and just think of it as a "fun wedding by Dothraki standards".

Most of my friends are not book readers, and when I explained to them to the extent of what happened and the meaning of the guest rights, they didn't know... While I'm not generalizing non-readers there is quite a few that wouldn't have caught that. Sure, it might be explained in the next episode, which I think it will from Tyrion, but leaving out the part where Cat specifically asks for the dish I felt was a flaw.

[Hangover of the Morning]

Most of my friends are not book readers, and when I explained to them to the extent of what happened and the meaning of the guest rights, they didn't know... While I'm not generalizing non-readers there is quite a few that wouldn't have caught that. Sure, it might be explained in the next episode, which I think it will from Tyrion, but leaving out the part where Cat specifically asks for the dish I felt was a flaw.

I understand that people might not get the bread ritual but I feel quite confident that they understand that shooting your wedding guests is pretty evil and not a standard practice.

[Winter In My Heart]

"Pretty" is a very broad definition, to say shes not average would be to say average means ugly.

But as you said you can't understand why Robb fell for her, and that her role should have went to someone who was more attractive. My point is: beauty is all perception. I actually think she's quite attractive. I've read comments from others that suggest Brienne is rather attractive while I simply do not see the attraction.

So in my opinion the issue on whether or not she's attractive is moot because that relies on individual perception.

Well no I wasn't saying I couldn't understand just because I don't think she's pretty. There's many, many, reasons why I don't understand Robb falling for her. Beauty is one of the last things on my mind for reasoning why he 'loved' her. Horrible story, lack of chemistry, etc are at the very top.

I can understand if some people do think the actress is pretty, but I don't see how my saying she is average automatically means ugly. If we were going to call anyone ugly, then we might as well throw it on the Freys doorstep, aside from Roslin, where it belongs lol. But no my thought on average is just that, average. Just because I think there's much prettier actresses in the show doesn't mean I'm going so far to call her dog ugly or anything of that nature. I just think she's very plain looking. There's nothing wrong with that. My thing is she just doesn't have a good personality to make her 'better' despite the fact I think she's just average looking. Her personality sucks to be quite honest. The only time I've found her half way okay in terms of acting and character is this episode where I didn't want to rip my eyes out having to watch scenes between her and Madden.

But yeah there's no point in 'arguing' about it because as you said beauty is more of a perception. And I agree I don't find the actress of Brienne to be all that pretty. I wasn't even thinking of her when I said there was more beautiful actresses in the show lol. I'm just let down by the fact they didn't have someone indescribably beautiful because if Robb is going to loose a kingdom it should at least be to someone with a very good personality (which I definitely think she doesn't have) and looks that's worth dying for. But again it's only my opinion that she isn't those things. Others might think so, all I can go off of is that me, my friends, and even my mother (who doesn't watch the show) doesn't find her to be 'gorgeous'/pretty or well above average (or whatever other word can be used.)

But just to get off of that note I was very disappointed Grey Wind didn't get to kill anyone before dying. I was really let down and wanted to see him go out fighting.

[Nami]

I understand that people might not get the bread ritual but I feel quite confident that they understand that shooting your wedding guests is pretty evil and not a standard practice.

They will, but the westerosi concept it's more deep than that

There are rules of hospitality that comes from eating salt and bread. It's a tradition we don't have in our real world.

It would explain why later on all Lords are shocked at the lack of honour from the Freys and how the rules of hospitality to them means nothing

[Nami]

She's pretty, not gorgeous like Cersei is supposed to be

And that's how it is in the books with Jeyne Westerling

[Harnisfechten]

k, here's a major nitpick of mine that's been bugging me the whole series.

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SO MANY CHARACTERS HOLD THEIR SWORDS AS IF THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING

what the heck is that? That's supposed to be a most skilled swordsman in the seven kingdoms, and he's holding his sword like a 5 year old girl holds a kitchen knife that she's scared to drop on her own toes.

And he's not the only character guilty of this.

edit: Roslin Frey was smoking..........wow......Marcus Junius Brutus really got lucky.....

[Winter In My Heart]

She's pretty, not gorgeous like Cersei is supposed to be

And that's how it is in the books with Jeyne Westerling

Like the other poster mentioned its about perception. I don't think she's pretty but I will agree Cersei is much prettier. (That's why I tried to end it in my last post. Since obviously perception isn't something that can be argued lol.) but yeah she'd just average to me. Nothing worth looking at when you compare Dany, Cersei, Roslin, Sansa, Margery etc.

[Tadco26]

I understand that people might not get the bread ritual but I feel quite confident that they understand that shooting your wedding guests is pretty evil and not a standard practice.

I thought they did a decent job with it in particular since Walder emphasized that they were under his shelter and protection. Still I would have preferred that Cat had mentioned it to Robb prior to that. That is a nitpick for me though.

I was really most disappointed with Jon not getting shot by Ygritte and the implication that Bran was worging both Shaggy Dog and Summer at the same time. Also the apparent cutting of Cold Hands at least for this season. But the adaptation of the story north of the wall has been mostly a disappointment for most of the series for me.