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teemo

[BOOK SPOILERS] Nitpick without repercussion?

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The pacing of the Red Wedding felt a little rushed. D&D seemed to go for the "twist" aspect instead of the "dread" aspect. The lousy singers, the terrible food, the feeling that something was just "not right," all of that in the novels helped build up the anticipation without ruining the surprise.

Yeah that's my biggest gripe about it. There wasn't any of that un-easy buildup.

The shock twist was there, the atmosphere was a complete swing and a miss.

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"Oh by the way, I saw Jon.." such a poorly writte/delivered line.

I did laugh at "no more hodoring" though.

About the RW itself:

This should've been an entirely Robb focused episode (kind of like Blackwater focused entirely on King's Landing). Not nearly enough buildup.

The editing of the last couple scenes was weird too. The Rains of Castamere went on for a while and only Cat noticed? then cut to a rather long Arya scene then cut back to RW...

Talisa just sitting there looking dumb and doesn't move until she has a dagger in her belly.

Cut to Arya witnessing a pretty anti-climactic grey wind death scene...?

Then Robb standing there, Roose just swoops in and stabs him, it looked so silly.

Then Cat wails ... and nope, nothing, just stands there as well. Someone swoops in and slits her throat.

Overall, it was lacking in chaos, and characters going mad. It should've been one long uninterrupted 15 min scene of buildup, and then 2-3 minutes of complete chaos, ending with Cat's plea. and THEN cut back to Arya witnessing the chaos and end the episode on her getting hit on the head and "thud" cut to black.

it is so obvious how they could have directed it to make it better. It's so simple. All it takes is following the structure of the books. WHAT A NOVEL IDEA.

The books had the RW structured perfectly. Perfect timing, perfect mood, etc.

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The RW was a disappointment overall, although Talisa's death was so horribly, swiftly brutal and Frey-like it nearly redeemed the rest.

No Greatjohn, no chaos, and Robb and Catelyn just sort of standing around numbly. There was no build-up at all, that sense of rapidly escalating danger and horror that the book covers so well.

I thought the editing and camera shots were really poor - no sense of scale, of epic tragedy. Some portions moved too abruptly, other parts lingered unnecessarily. It also seemed very very stagey, with random characters jumping on and off-screen to do their single deed and disappear.

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oh yeah, I also hated how they choreographed Grey Worm fighting. I liked how Jorah, Daario, and Grey Worm all fought in very distinct ways, but Grey Worm looked like some cheesy asian martial arts movie staff fighting rather than a soldier trained to fight in a hoplite phalanx. See how the Unsullied fought in the episode where Dany freed them. Very organized, working in small groups and pairs, very tight and focused, stabbing with their spears. And then Grey Worm is flailing around like some 5 year old with a bo staff:

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The one thing that bothered me the most was that Cat killed Walder's wife and not one of his sons.

They did stress that Robb was Cat's only son now (or did she say "first"? either way it could have been done) and that Walder had so many children he couldn't even remember all their names. So it would have been even more gut-wrenching to see her try to protect her only son when he was all like "nah whatever I have many more" about one of his own sons.

I would also have liked to see her take on one of the men instead of a girl. It's true that Jinglebells was mentally challenged but to have her kill a son would have been more powerful than just have wife #9 killed. I thought they hired that semi-famous actor to play Walder's son because he would be the one to die (and he doesn't look very tough). Cat already took on an assassin in the first season, I don't see why they couldn't let her do her thing.

And, you know, a lot of people are commenting on the fridging of Talisa and I think it's a valid point. It's lazy storytelling but at the same time they cut all the important Northeners from Robb's circle (the Umbers, the Mormonts, etc), so it would have been hard to make the scene as poignant if it was just Robb and Cat there.

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I also think that the execution of the RW was somewhat off and lazy (D&D were clearly aiming mostly for the shock factor) even though the end result was still gut-wrenching.

Sadly there was no foreboding with Arya's fate - when I read the books, I wasn't sure whether the Hound had killed her or not, and for a moment it made the RW feel even more devastating.

Dany's scenes seemed detached. D&D should have skipped her from this episode, like they fortunately did with the Lannisters.

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Talisa's death added to the impact of the event but I think it overshadowed Robb and Catelyn dying- all I seem to care about is Talisa and baby Ned being killed which is ironic as I never liked her before (probably because I thought she was a spy).

Also, Grey Wind deserved a better death than that and Robb's involvement in the event was weak- I wanted him to say 'Grey Wind' warging into him, taking some Frey down with him.

They give the dragons all the screen time and not the wolves.

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The dumbest part of the episode was when Oren said he heard voices in the tower and Torlund told him it was the storm. What kind of leader dismisses this with a laugh and a belly tickle? Grade A stooopid.

I liked the speed of the RW. If the deaths and overall scene was overly dramatic most of you would have complained about that. "A real massacre would be quick and to the point! Why was it so slooow?" Would have been all the posts above.

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yeah they definitely needed to kill talisa off without any other major northerners at the festivities.

my biggest nitpick(and forcing in the dany stuff that could have been saved for next week is a major issue) is blackfish leaving to use the bathroom.

he'd achieved nothing by being there. they could have easily have remained to hold riverrun. why include him in the background for a few episodes, forcing you to have hime scape by luck of the bladder

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yeah they definitely needed to kill talisa off without any other major northerners at the festivities.

my biggest nitpick(and forcing in the dany stuff that could have been saved for next week is a major issue) is blackfish leaving to use the bathroom.

he'd achieved nothing by being there. they could have easily have remained to hold riverrun. why include him in the background for a few episodes, forcing you to have hime scape by luck of the bladder

I agree, it makes very little sense. Did they just leave Riverrun without a single Tully in there? Did they learn nothing from the Winterfell incident? And now what. Will Blackfish be a prisioner or will they make it so that he ran from the fighting and survived?

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I hope this post goes through, the site has been very difficult today....but anyway...I've read a couple interviews w/the cast and it sounds like Michelle Fairley is NOT coming back...so that would mean no Lady Stoneheart.

I know GOT likes to play games, but she sounded pretty honest, said she finally cut her hair, that would be a shame...no more Michelle who is a great actress and it would also probably mean that nothing is going to happen in the future with Lady Stoneheart except that either Jamie or Brienne will probably kill her for good, and that will suck.

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Talisa's death added to the impact of the event but I think it overshadowed Robb and Catelyn dying- all I seem to care about is Talisa and baby Ned being killed which is ironic as I never liked her before (probably because I thought she was a spy).

Also, Grey Wind deserved a better death than that and Robb's involvement in the event was weak- I wanted him to say 'Grey Wind' warging into him, taking some Frey down with him.

They give the dragons all the screen time and not the wolves.

This is going to sound horrible, especially after the brutal way she was killed.. well first let me explain that I was on the "Talisa is a spy" boat, and that I could not stand her character. So maybe I am grasping onto straws here when I say I kind of am hoping that she is a spy, and that they just killed her because she was pregnant with Robb's heir and they had no m ore use of her? *hides*

I hope this post goes through, the site has been very difficult today....but anyway...I've read a couple interviews w/the cast and it sounds like Michelle Fairley is NOT coming back...so that would mean no Lady Stoneheart.

I know GOT likes to play games, but she sounded pretty honest, said she finally cut her hair, that would be a shame...no more Michelle who is a great actress and it would also probably mean that nothing is going to happen in the future with Lady Stoneheart except that either Jamie or Brienne will probably kill her for good, and that will suck.

I sincerely hope that is not true. Then again, of course Michelle couldn't be all "Oh, yeah, you'll be seeing me make a brief appearance pretty soon!".. no one is supposed to know that she will return, at this point in the story. Reading that epilogue was the tasty icing on the cupcake.

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oh yeah, I also hated how they choreographed Grey Worm fighting. I liked how Jorah, Daario, and Grey Worm all fought in very distinct ways, but Grey Worm looked like some cheesy asian martial arts movie staff fighting rather than a soldier trained to fight in a hoplite phalanx. See how the Unsullied fought in the episode where Dany freed them. Very organized, working in small groups and pairs, very tight and focused, stabbing with their spears. And then Grey Worm is flailing around like some 5 year old with a bo staff:

It just shows that you know very little of fighting.

Fighting in formation is very different than fighting alone.

Most of the people forget that a spear is also a staff.

Additionally he should have taken much shorter spear (like Yari if we are using japanese terms)

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(copied from the general discussion thread, hope it fits here also)

From where I stand, the public reaction to Red Wedding doesn’t seem to be near the reaction to Ned’s death. Now, I don’t have “twitter” nor “facebook” account, so I might be wrong and those two may be going crazy at this very moment. Suffice to say, my overview of the rest of the internet is also very limited. But, the reaction in general does seem pretty quiet, like nothing extraordinary happened. On boards I checked, some posters do claim they're done with the show, but that looks like the only real clue that RW just happened on screens. And some of the first reviews of the episode (Allan Sepinwal’s, for example), only strengthened the impression that HBO’s RW is not the ground-shaking event many expected, certainly not on the level of Ned’s beheading.

Did anybody get a different, or maybe opposite impression?

You've not seen @TheRedWedding on Twitter then I take it :)

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(copied from the general discussion thread, hope it fits here also)

From where I stand, the public reaction to Red Wedding doesn’t seem to be near the reaction to Ned’s death. Now, I don’t have “twitter” nor “facebook” account, so I might be wrong and those two may be going crazy at this very moment. Suffice to say, my overview of the rest of the internet is also very limited. But, the reaction in general does seem pretty quiet, like nothing extraordinary happened. On boards I checked, some posters do claim they're done with the show, but that looks like the only real clue that RW just happened on screens. And some of the first reviews of the episode (Allan Sepinwal’s, for example), only strengthened the impression that HBO’s RW is not the ground-shaking event many expected, certainly not on the level of Ned’s beheading.

Did anybody get a different, or maybe opposite impression?

You've not seen @RedWeddingTears on Twitter then I take it :)

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I thought the RW was good but it did lack proper build up, the feeling of foreboding.

Also the end was weird. Cat slitting the girls throat while letting out a strange wail. Then standing there for 10 seconds waiting for some random actor (who must have missed his cue as she just stood there waiting) to slit her throat followed by an instant black screen. It was almost comical.

It was well done, but could have been better with some simple edits and more time spend on the build up. (Dany and Sam should have been cut)

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It just shows that you know very little of fighting.

Fighting in formation is very different than fighting alone.

Most of the people forget that a spear is also a staff.

Additionally he should have taken much shorter spear (like Yari if we are using japanese terms)

Your video is a good example of how Greyworm should've fought. I agree with what you said about a spear also being used as a staff, but the way Greyworm used it was just plain impractical. I mean, is there any real defensive or offensive reason to twirl it around like he did? Seems like a good way to open up your defenses and get killed, not to mention tire yourself out.

It just came off as overly-theatrical for someone like an Unsullied who's trained to kill efficiently and maintain uniformity.

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Your video is a good example of how Greyworm should've fought. I agree with what you said about a spear also being used as a staff, but the way Greyworm used it was just plain impractical. I mean, is there any real defensive or offensive reason to twirl it around like he did? Seems like a good way to open up your defenses and get killed, not to mention tire yourself out.

It just came off as overly-theatrical for someone like an Unsullied who's trained to kill efficiently and maintain uniformity.

With this I agree, but in the TV they like to show off. Still it was not so bad (for TV).

Whereas, wildings charge on one man was funny. They could simply sneak in or whatever, or at least charge from different directions.

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