[Book Spoilers] EP309 Discussion

[Willem Blackfyre]

hahahahthey crashed the server here

[Leif]

Wow, people are going crazy on twitter. Talking about boycotting the show, and never watching it again. I suspected this sort of reaction would happen though. Here's one tweet:

BOYCOTT GAME OF THRONES THERE WAS A STABBING OF A PREGNANT WOMAN, THROATS BEING SLIT, ANIMALS BEING SLAUGHTERED. just sick

Damn. I understand watching a pregnant lady being stabbed in the stomach was just flat out disturbing, but people are really taking this far. It's a show.

The thing is, though, people are stupid.

[Commodore]

Wedding Crashers photoshop, gold!

[Ghost Grass]

Question on Talisa: Did anyone know she was pregnant before the dinner? She was conspicuously bundled up before, and it looks like Robb didn't even know. Maybe the plan wasn't to kill her but they had to add that when they saw.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Ghost Grass

[Robin Of House Hill]

Oh, if only all episodes were this good.

[Queen Daenerys]

Am I the only one who's disappointed with the RW? It didn't hit me like it did in the books, mostly because they put arya's scenes in between. The death of Talisa was really hard to watch though, as was Grey Wind's. I loved the silent credits, and loved the Houd's and Arya's interactions. Still a very good episode, I can't wait to hear the reactions of my Unsullied friends!

[Nudu]

Umber not salapping some Frey men with a leg of lamb? Lame!

[SerDuck]

RW was no where near as good (and I mean good in a gut wrenching, wtf is going on, why?!?!?! way...) as it was in the book.

The entire Grey Wind scene was wrong and just disrespectful. He was supposed to be tearing shit up while getting shot at with crossbows.

I was overall very disappointed with this episode. I think all the Bran scenes have gradually been going downhill. I don't think the kid is a good actor and now that his character is getting more screen time as the story progresses it is very hard for me to watch him.

They fucked the Jon Snow defecting from the wildlings up also.

The only good part about this episode was Arya and the Hound.

[mafalda]

Question on Talisa: Did anyone know she was pregnant before the dinner? She was conspicuously bundled up before, and it looks like Robb didn't even know. Maybe the plan wasn't to kill her but they had to add that when they saw.

Question on Talisa: Did anyone know she was pregnant before the dinner? She was conspicuously bundled up before, and it looks like Robb didn't even know. Maybe the plan wasn't to kill her but they had to add that when they saw.

Well, Robb knew beforehand, in the ep where they slept together and she strangely starts writing a letter. She told him then she is pregnant. I imagine word probably got around or so. Or maybe Walder figured it out when he disgustingly undressed her with his eyes and told her he can always tell what's beneath a dress.

Umber not salapping some Frey men with a leg of lamb? Lame!

Damn it I wanted that in there so bad! I knew it wouldn't be, because of no umbers this season (lame!) and because I doubt they would have added something so comical in an otherwise very tragic scene.

[SerDuck]

Wow I can't believe these twitter comments about boycotting the show. When I read this part in the book it made me want to read more. But that's probably because Robb was not a main character and Cat's POVs were always kind of annoying and boring. Some of these tweets are just crazy though haha

[Zman1863]

I'm not really with Ran's criticism of the tone of the scenes in the episode guide. I think a lot of the change in tone is book to screen stuff- it's never quite as it is in the books, but it makes a close fit. If there is too much foreboding throughout the scenes leading up, the shock would have been dampened or been spoiled. Catelyn's foreboding in her last chapter lets the reader know that something is wrong, but not the degree of danger until things start to move. An unspoiled reader doesn't read the first line with the drums thinking that Robb and Catelyn are about to be assassinated. I don't see many clear ways where they could have conveyed more of an ominous tone without tipping their hand. My unsullied viewer had the appropriate reactions, and I was glued to the seat.

[Master Forel's Fro]

Wow, people are going crazy on twitter. Talking about boycotting the show, and never watching it again. I suspected this sort of reaction would happen though. Here's one tweet:

BOYCOTT GAME OF THRONES THERE WAS A STABBING OF A PREGNANT WOMAN, THROATS BEING SLIT, ANIMALS BEING SLAUGHTERED. just sick

Damn. I understand watching a pregnant lady being stabbed in the stomach was just flat out disturbing, but people are really taking this far. It's a show.

must be the same people that spit on actors cause they cant tell the role from the actor.

[alwayswinter]

Grey Wind looking over to Arya as he died was the most heartbreaking thing i've ever seen.

[Tyrion_the_Oneironaut]

Ah Flasheart, me old mucker, fellow... sonny jim.

Been racking my brain to remember what that quote is from.

Back on topic: did anyone else get a Charles Manson family vibe from the fetus stabs in rapid succession? Christ. That needed some music to go out on. So hardcore.

[Master Forel's Fro]

was it just my imagining or when cat stopped screaming you can hear her heart turn to stone or it could be crackling from the fire behind her.

[Joey Beers]

Great episode. Thanks the old gods and the new that this season has done well. Last season suuucckked. Anyway, I didn't love the way the first 20 minutes was spent by showing a bit then cutting to a different story line, then showing a bit and cutting to a different story line. That being said, eventually those things did come together and present what needed to be resolved at this point in the story. God I love the fact that people I know who haven't read the books are freaking out about the Red Wedding. They also seem to think Dany is about to destroy people with her dragons. Huzzah for literacy!

[TheAwesomeVargoHoat]

The worst part of the episode was the way they killed Grey Wind, I was hoping for Arya to open up that cage and let him kill some Freys, but nope they just decided to kill him without him getting any kills. I'm just glad Summer and Shaggy got some action earlier in the episode.

I liked the Bran scenes though, loved how he warged Hodor and shut him up. Also I loved the look Orell gave to the window when the warging was going on, kind of like how he knew something more was happening then. But I really thought Orell would be the one to tell Jon Snow he's a warg, I guess it's up to Sam to tell him now.

Speaking of Sam, where is Coldhands? He's pretty much at the wall, and he knows about the Black Gate from a book already. I guess he's going to show Bran the door and sometime next season Coldhands will save Bran/Meera/Jojen and Sam will never meet him.

[Homer Lannister]

While I'll admit that it was a good episode overall, I still feel that show RW was not even half of the quality of the book RW. As a wise man (from Looper I might add) once said, "It's the little ones that get you"

This to me was the case with this episode and pretty much this entire season. Many people (myself included) have been babbling on and on about a few little things that we knew would soften the impact of the Red wedding and thus weaken this season overall. E.g. Robb's apparent battle retardedness in wanting to take CASTERLY FUCKING ROCK instead of his retaking his seat of power at Winterfell, the lack of ANY northern bannermen (this one annoys me the most), Catlyn's screen time being reduced, the karstarks having HALF of Robbs fucking army, lack of Greywind, Thugfish & most of all the poorly adapted robb-talisa love story.

About the lack of northern bannermen, IMHO it completely ruined the fact that the Freys killed practically the entire north, that was a huge minus for me in the sympathy department. Instead we get 20 random and nameless mu'fuckers being butchered at the wedding. Who were these people? and why were they allowed to attend the wedding? I guess they were bannermen of some sorts, but they seemed of about as much importance as sock puppets. Plus the Talisa stabbing had no impact on me whatsoever, D & D think only brute violence or gruesomeness can make you sympathize with a dying character, but the power of the original material was in establishing the characters properly and MAKING you love them before tearing them down. I had no strong feelings for either Talisa or Robb due to D & D's ponderous writing.

There were quite a few other little niggles, e.g. the exceptional sellsword musicians, the lack of the 'mentally challenged' frey, no drums, no grey wind going apeshit, the shooting of catelyn, etc. I suspect most of this would not matter to non-book readers and it'll be a shock to them nonetheless, but from a book readers perspective I think ultimately that D & D failed to live up to the hype of the original RW and also failed to deliver on their 'series defining' moment. The original RW was and still is the most shocking and tragic thing to happen in ASOIAF, but in the show (for me at least) it didn't generate as much sympathy as the ned stark death.

I have enjoyed this season thus far but the more they make strange and often unnecessary departures from the book (particularly a storm of swords which is the best in the franchise) the more it weakens the show overall. IMHO they can start making crazy changes when they hit books 4 & 5 which are in dire need of some form of change as they are pretty week compared to the first 3 books. Like I said before, "It's the little things that get you". Also I'd like to compare these little changes to butterfly wings flapping, slowly and discreetly at first but then building up to a disaster later on.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Homer Lannister

[Madfunkymonkey]

So Ned Stark was killed in the 1st sean's episode 9 and another Ned Stark was killed in the 3rd season's episode 9.

And both died from pointy objects.

[Kraken's Kiss]

Why did Roose hint to Cat that he was wearing armor?