Zman1863 Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Did anyone notice how grey wind looked smaller than he did in season 2...Yeah I do think he came off as a bit diminished and not just because he had little screen time. Another good thing about this episode is that it made me realise that I dislike Daario not for superficial reasons, but because he's a douche.I guess it means they've done a pretty good job with the adaptation. On Catelyn, I don't really think the RW was portrayed in a way that took away from her character or diminished her or focused unduly on Robb and Talissa.The Robb story line has always been a weak spot for the show but to an extent it was inevitable. First, the aging up of the character builds in distortion of his story, and led to the need to change the circumstances of his marriage. Second, the use of secondhand accounts of Robb's activities as occurs in the books is not enough to get a television audience invested in the character. So Robb got more screen time and this inevitably had costs to the portrayal of Catelyn. But I don't really see those problems as being much in evidence in the RW scene. They close Robb's augmented show story with the additions of a few quick moments. But the scene is still Catelyn's as it was in the books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) Well exactly does she have that's more than a 'pretty' body? She has shown multiple times that she's very dim witted so its not intelligence lol.But back on point this is Walder Frey. He could have easily insulted them both, but it was still good for what it was.The moral convictions of a liberal university student?Of course he could have insulted them both but personally ,it was more interesting to me to see him attacking Robb's so-called honor there. Talisa only matters in the sense that she's occupying space that belongs (or should belong, as Frey sees it) to him. Making her squirm is probably of lesser importance to him. Edited June 7, 2013 by Castel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter In My Heart Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) The moral convictions of a liberal university student?Your joking right?There's no colleges in that time and just because she is good at medicine doesn't make her smart. We've seen a few occasions where she isn't very bright. Edited June 7, 2013 by Winter In My Heart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Your joking right?There's no colleges in that time and just because she is good at medicine doesn't make her smart. We've seen a few occasions where she isn't very bright.Have you watched Community? You don't have to be smart to have moral convictions. I wasn't talking about intelligence as much as certain ideas that are common to that group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter In My Heart Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Have you watched Community? You don't have to be smart to have moral convictions. I wasn't talking about intelligence as much as certain ideas that are common to that group.So because she doesn't like slavery like Dany she's immediately some virtuous character that's oh so great and we have to love? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Lord of Winterfell Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 So because she doesn't like slavery like Dany she's immediately some virtuous character that's oh so great and we have to love?No, you don't have to love her -- only Robb had to. In their first meeting, she spouted off against slavery, and about leaving a life of luxury to do good. She was an idealist in the same way that Robb was, and it was very clear to me that was the core of her appeal to him. To him, she seemed to have a "Stark-like" code, which got him right in his weak spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilJonUmber Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 However, she should have realized that freeing Jaime would make Robb not trust her anymore.Yes, her decision lacked rationale; as those motivated by love so often do. Losing Robb's trust was likely a consideration, but a price she felt she'd be willing to pay in exchange for her family's safety.A mother's fear for her young will always supercede logic, reasoning and consideration of future consequence. She viewed the opportunity to free Jamie as her last chance to save Sansa and Arya ... a decision that would've haunted her had she passed on it, and they were ultimately killed by her failure to act. Her captors were the same people that pushed Bran from a tower window, and chopped off her husband's neck. So, understandably, she feared the worst. Cat's always been one of the more realistic, identifiable characters. That's why her death was so tragic, to me personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter In My Heart Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 No, you don't have to love her -- only Robb had to. In their first meeting, she spouted off against slavery, and about leaving a life of luxury to do good. She was an idealist in the same way that Robb was, and it was very clear to me that was the core of her appeal to him. To him, she seemed to have a "Stark-like" code, which got him right in his weak spot.Well there are decent moral beings in the series. I think just because she's not horrible like most other characters go doesn't mean she's much more than a 'pretty' face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal Porno Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) What would you guys prefer? Completely vapid and codependent, with absolutely no character development and three lines in the entire series?Oh yeah, I guess you would.Talisa had enough going on that she was unique, and far more interesting than Jeyne Plot Device. Who I don't dislike, by the way (I am completely indifferent to her), I just don't get why people act like she is a superior character when she has the thinnest of the thin character. Edited June 7, 2013 by Khal Porno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter In My Heart Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) What would you guys prefer? Completely vapid and codependent, with absolutely no character development and three lines in the entire series?Oh yeah, I guess you would.Talisa had enough going on that she was unique, and far more interesting than Jeyne Plot Device. Who I don't dislike, by the way (I am completely indifferent to her), I just don't get why people act like she is a superior character when she has the thinnest of the thin character.So far more interesting means having a character with a modern outlook.I would pass on that type of character since it makes no sense in the world.I honestly don't find her interesting. She's just a knock off of Dany and Arya. I don't think Jeyne was all that interesting either but at least she wasn't a modern outlooking woman that was rather cliche. If the change was actually good I would have preferred it over the books but it wasn't. And oona was very bland to me with little emotional range which didn't help my dislike of the character.Eta; She was just a slightly more fleshed out boring plot device. Edited June 7, 2013 by Winter In My Heart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Jeyne wasn't an important character, but that doesn't mean she was a "thin" character. She was a far stronger character in terms of characterisation than Talisa, who is ALSO merely a plot-device for Robb. Actually, Talisa is even more of a plot-device: she was completely "fridged" for Robb's character development, whereas Jeyne out-lived Robb and has a storyline that extends beyond him.She also has a personality; she's simply shy - which is, you know, a very valid and realistic characteristic. In contrast, Talisa is a Strong Female Character who cheapens the narratives of other female characters; for example, she can walk around a battlefield unprotected and go unmolested, but Brienne - a physically much stronger woman who wears armour - can't even fight alongside her fellow soldiers without constantly fearing rape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal Porno Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) I really don't care about this Talisa vs. Jeyne silliness anymore and I'm done talking about it. I hope everyone will just move on and get over it now that she's dead. Edited June 7, 2013 by Khal Porno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter In My Heart Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 I really don't care about this Talisa vs. Jeyne silliness anymore and I'm done talking about it. I hope everyone will just move on and get over it now that she's dead.You were the one who brought up Jeyne. I was merely talking about Talisa on her own not a comparison. It's you and others confusing people's nitpick of Talisa by automatically assuming they love Jeyne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal Porno Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 You were the one who brought up Jeyne. I was merely talking about Talisa on her own not a comparison. It's you and others confusing people's nitpick of Talisa by automatically assuming they love Jeyne.Except that that is what the issue really is. People can swear up and down to the contrary all they want, but the truth is that they just don't like it because it's different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter In My Heart Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Jeyne wasn't an important character, but that doesn't mean she was a "thin" character. She was a far stronger character in terms of characterisation than Talisa, who is ALSO merely a plot-device for Robb. Actually, Talisa is even more of a plot-device: she was completely "fridged" for Robb's character development, whereas Jeyne out-lived Robb and has a storyline that extends beyond him.She also has a personality; she's simply shy - which is, you know, a very valid and realistic characteristic. In contrast, Talisa is a Strong Female Character who cheapens the narratives of other female characters; for example, she can walk around a battlefield unprotected and go unmolested, but Brienne - a physically much stronger woman who wears armour - can't even fight alongside her fellow soldiers without constantly fearing rape.:agree:I find it stupid Jeyne is bland because she's shy. There's many nice timid girls in the world and its unrealistic there's little to none in the show but yet people say that's okay because we need like every female character to be bad ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter In My Heart Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Except that that is what the issue really is. People can swear up and down to the contrary all they want, but the truth is that they just don't like it because it's different.No your throwing around accusations just to act like you superior. I don't like the change because its bad and horribly written. NOT because its simply a change. What the hell don't people understand about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal Porno Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 :agree:I find it stupid Jeyne is bland because she's shy. There's many nice timid girls in the world and its unrealistic there's little to none in the show but yet people say that's okay because we need like every female character to be bad ass.Nah. She's just not fleshed out and is basically a nonexistant character (which is fine because she is not important). If Martin wanted to flesh her out, I'm sure he could have made her compelling with her shyness. But just being shy doesn't equal good characterization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal Porno Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) No your throwing around accusations just to act like you superior. I don't like the change because its bad and horribly written. NOT because its simply a change. What the hell don't people understand about that.Except that it's NOT bad and horribly written. You just didn't like it (which I have no issue with). I watched the same show you did, and I'm not a stupid person. And others share my perspective, so I'm not crazy.I don't feel "superior" and have no wish to be. I don't care. I'm just calling a spade a spade. Edited June 7, 2013 by Khal Porno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter In My Heart Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) Except that it's NOT bad and horribly written. I watched the same show you did, and I'm not a stupid person. And others share my perspective, so I'm not crazy.I don't feel "superior" and have no wish to be. I don't care. I'm just calling a spade a spade.And there's just as many that I've talked to and unsullied I read on here that didn't like the arc. I've met very few people that like Talisa so just from what my prospective is the lovers seem to be in the minority.So there's just as many if not more that think its a bad and horribly written cliche. Just because you don't think it is doesn't mean it isn't the popular opinion to most people. Edited June 7, 2013 by Winter In My Heart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal Porno Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 And there's just as many that I've talked to and unsullied I read on here that didn't like the arc. I've me very few people that like Talisa so just from what my prospective is the lovers seem to be in the minority.So there's just as many if not more that think its a bad and horribly written cliche. Just because you don't think it is doesn't mean it isn't the popular opinion to most people.Well hey like I said if you don't like it, that's cool. I really don't care.It's the "it's objectively bad and horrible and the worst thing ever and if you don't think so you are dumb and don't appreciate the finer things in life" I have a problem with. As I've said again and again here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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