How would you rate episode 309?

[andrew_]

Lollll. First post I bothered replying to after flipping through 9 pages.

And thats what you said? shame

[Keepsu]

I gave it a 9.

The scene between Bran and Rickon was wonderful, and I loved the performance by Art Parkinson, who I think was the emotional core of that scene. I think that's the first time he's really gotten to play a major scene in the show, actually. He was brilliant, and the scene was quite moving.

I don't have an opinion of the Yunkai segment because I stepped out for a moment... though it's my understanding that about all I missed was seeing Jorah becoming jealous of Daario.

I thought they did a good job of the Red Wedding. There were a couple of of changes from the book that distracted me and made me a bit less engaged on first viewing (though being emotionally distanced was going to happen anyway since I knew what was coming and tended to focus more how they handled it). So here were a couple of things that distracted me:

1) Grey Wind getting killed in his cage rather than getting to rip some Frey arms off and fight back until the end.

2) Catelyn killing the Frey wife instead of the mentally disabled son. I understand why they had to change it (could you imagine the storm of boycotts and political protests - on TOP of the intense emotional reactions that the sequence inherently creates - if they'd actually done it the way it reads?). Yes I think it would have been more powerful to see Catelyn kill someone who is the mental equivalent of an infant or young child, but I think I'm alone in this, judging by the reviews. Apparently the killing of the young terrified Frey wife was sufficiently shocking for most viewers, and I am becoming reconciled to it. Now that I know about it, I will probably find it sufficiently shocking on a second viewing.

Aside from those distractions, I thought the Red Wedding was brilliantly staged, and Michelle Fairley completely nailed it. I personally loved her catatonic stare, and it brought me right back into the scene after the killing of the "wrong person" - though I know some fans would have preferred to see her tear at herself with her nails.

I thought the fade to black... and to silence... right after the arterial splatter was incredibly powerful.

Well done!

I thought the change from Jinglebell to Frey's wife was a PC move as well. The scene would have worked better for me if they'd have kept Jinglebell.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Keepsu

[SER WILLIAM the GREAT]

This was definitely the best episode of the series. Everything about the Red Wedding was shot perfectly. The episode actually made me feel for the characters of Robb and Catelyn. I want justice for their murders, so I cant wait for the Lannisters and Freys to get whats coming to them in the next seasons.

[Isildur's Mane]

I gave it an 8 (.5)

I'll start with what I loved:

Cat and Robb (start of episode) I actually liked this scene- not that it still made sense to go to Casterly Rock - but because we got to see a bit more of Cat (not much but a bit) and Robb.

Bran (and Rickon) I thought this goodbye was so touching. The actor that plays Rickon is so cute and did a realy great job. I liked how they did Bran warging Hodor and made a deal of it. I also liked how they kept the line 'no hodoring'. Sweet

Arya (and the Hound) I liked their interactions leading up to arriving at the Twins.

I liked most of the 'Queenscrown' scenes, with Jon and Ygritte and Bran warging Summer. I just wish that Jon had got shot... but maybe next episode?

Overall, I did really like this episode. But the scenes of the red wedding didn't cut it for me. Here is why:

What I didn't like:

First, I would like to share with everyone what I feel when I read this chapter.

I feel the tension immediately, my hands start to shake, there are parts where I feel numb with disbelief, parts where I feel rage and anger, I get tear-eyed and heart broken. I feel physically sick. And I get these feelings every. single. time. I read the Red Wedding.

Watching it: I felt shock when Talisa was stabbed - I didn't know what they were going to do with her -, then numb, a kind of disconnected numb though, when all the Stark bannermen were dying, and shock.

I didn't get the rest of the feelings I normally get. I think this is because I was not invested in the Stark bannermen when they died. I know, I know, it's hard to have every character which was in the books in the TV show. There just isn't as much budget or time, I get that. But it also meant, that when it came to killing off all these un-named characters, I just didn't feel anything. I didn't go through the emotional rollercoster I normally go through as I see all these character's, that I have been getting to know, fight for their lives. For me, the fact that we see them fighting back, and then what we think is a rescue by Bolton men, only to be more slaughter, adds to the horror.

The tension leading up to the slaughter wasn't there. In the books it's real headache inducing stuff, and you just want everyone to get out of there, but you are not sure why (at least on first read). But instead, the writiers chose to do it differently, which is fine normally, I just didn't think it was effective this time.

The show had the wedding being on the happier side, compared to other events which happen in ASoIaF/GoT, and the BAM! everyone's dead!

Which is shocking, yes, but I, personally don't feel is as effective.

My friend, who I knew that Robb was going to die, but not how, said this about the tension: 'They did a good job exploding the tension haha but not rising it'. Which I thought summed up how I felt about it too.

Cat not going mad in the end: I'm in two minds about this. I persoanlly feel it would have been better if she did, but I think it reflects the audience's state of shock after just haing watched the Red Wedding... But I do wish they had managed to put the 'no don't, don't cut my hair, Ned loves my hair,' line somehow. It gets me everytime :crying:

Also, I didn't like how Arya and the Hound seemed to get away pretty easily, and how Arya didn't panic or anything.

And how Grey Wind wasn't let loose or escape and killed that way. I kept thinking, he's a direwolf, surely a wooden cage can't hold him in.

Now, while I had issues with the Red Wedding, I did love both proformances by the actors that played Walder Frey and Roose Bolton. I thought they were briliant! I also liked most of Richard performance, I just thought he needed a bit more fascial expression when looking at his dead, pregnant wife. And love Michelle's performance too, even if they cut her mad parts, that's not Michelle's fault :)

I didn't think the Yunkai parts fit in this episode, though I did sit up in my seat thinking that we would get a story of Rhagaer from Baristan but we didn't, which left me thinking, why we got Yunkai in this episode.

Anyway, that's all from me. I will say again, I did like this episode, just when some of my favourite characters are dying, I thought it would be even better.

[The Knight of Flours]

A 10 for me. Watched it on broadcast night and was so tired I crashed straight after. Tonight I watched it again and my stomach is still feeling stressed out,

[Reposado]

I didn't think the Yunkai parts fit in this episode, though I did sit up in my seat thinking that we would get a story of Rhagaer from Baristan but we didn't, which left me thinking, why we got Yunkai in this episode.

yeah. by far the biggest killer of this episodes rating. yunkaii stuff should have been pushed to next week or last

[SamwellTarlyIsMyHero]

I cried too but the TV show really did not do justice to the intensity of the Red Wedding in the books! The lack of drums and a cacophony of sounds was the biggest issue for me...Also no greywind acting weird/No Catelyn insisting on being fed bread as soon as they come! Nothing..Expected so much more

I felt the same way--it didn't have the same pounding sense of foreboding that I got from the book. I was a bit disappointed.

[Shadow on the Wall]

Upgraded it from a 9 to a 10. I'm treating it as separate from the books. When looked at like that, it was astounding television.

[Rhogantis]

9.... reserving 10 due to not knowing what next episode and seasons may bring.

I refraned from reading the books, have them but not got to this part.

So i was unaware.

I thought Robb would distrust Frey as his insults were a little far, and in the past he has been known to let down the starks and in battle. Surely you would have had men patrolling and guarding the king right?

Either way i knew something was coming, just not this ... so for catching me like that and shocking me it deserves a high rating.

[Senor Drogo]

Id have to give it 9, Michelle Fairly, the dude who plays Walder Frey, and the guy who plays Roose Bolton did an amazing job, the acting was great. The Red Wedding was nicely done for a TV adaptation. I think people need to stop comparing it with the book.

Jon snow finally killing orell was epic, i was waiting for that annoying fool to get served. I didnt like the taking of yunkai, it felt rushed, understandably so.

Comparing it to previous seasons episode 9 heavy hitters, Blackwater remains the best in my opinion.

[Kaiser Stormslayer]

I gave it an 8 (.5)

I'll start with what I loved:

Cat and Robb (start of episode) I actually liked this scene- not that it still made sense to go to Casterly Rock - but because we got to see a bit more of Cat (not much but a bit) and Robb.

Bran (and Rickon) I thought this goodbye was so touching. The actor that plays Rickon is so cute and did a realy great job. I liked how they did Bran warging Hodor and made a deal of it. I also liked how they kept the line 'no hodoring'. Sweet

Arya (and the Hound) I liked their interactions leading up to arriving at the Twins.

I liked most of the 'Queenscrown' scenes, with Jon and Ygritte and Bran warging Summer. I just wish that Jon had got shot... but maybe next episode?

Overall, I did really like this episode. But the scenes of the red wedding didn't cut it for me. Here is why:

What I didn't like:

First, I would like to share with everyone what I feel when I read this chapter.

I feel the tension immediately, my hands start to shake, there are parts where I feel numb with disbelief, parts where I feel rage and anger, I get tear-eyed and heart broken. I feel physically sick. And I get these feelings every. single. time. I read the Red Wedding.

Watching it: I felt shock when Talisa was stabbed - I didn't know what they were going to do with her -, then numb, a kind of disconnected numb though, when all the Stark bannermen were dying, and shock.

I didn't get the rest of the feelings I normally get. I think this is because I was not invested in the Stark bannermen when they died. I know, I know, it's hard to have every character which was in the books in the TV show. There just isn't as much budget or time, I get that. But it also meant, that when it came to killing off all these un-named characters, I just didn't feel anything. I didn't go through the emotional rollercoster I normally go through as I see all these character's, that I have been getting to know, fight for their lives. For me, the fact that we see them fighting back, and then what we think is a rescue by Bolton men, only to be more slaughter, adds to the horror.

The tension leading up to the slaughter wasn't there. In the books it's real headache inducing stuff, and you just want everyone to get out of there, but you are not sure why (at least on first read). But instead, the writiers chose to do it differently, which is fine normally, I just didn't think it was effective this time.

The show had the wedding being on the happier side, compared to other events which happen in ASoIaF/GoT, and the BAM! everyone's dead!

Which is shocking, yes, but I, personally don't feel is as effective.

My friend, who I knew that Robb was going to die, but not how, said this about the tension: 'They did a good job exploding the tension haha but not rising it'. Which I thought summed up how I felt about it too.

Cat not going mad in the end: I'm in two minds about this. I persoanlly feel it would have been better if she did, but I think it reflects the audience's state of shock after just haing watched the Red Wedding... But I do wish they had managed to put the 'no don't, don't cut my hair, Ned loves my hair,' line somehow. It gets me everytime :crying:

Also, I didn't like how Arya and the Hound seemed to get away pretty easily, and how Arya didn't panic or anything.

And how Grey Wind wasn't let loose or escape and killed that way. I kept thinking, he's a direwolf, surely a wooden cage can't hold him in.

Now, while I had issues with the Red Wedding, I did love both proformances by the actors that played Walder Frey and Roose Bolton. I thought they were briliant! I also liked most of Richard performance, I just thought he needed a bit more fascial expression when looking at his dead, pregnant wife. And love Michelle's performance too, even if they cut her mad parts, that's not Michelle's fault :)

I didn't think the Yunkai parts fit in this episode, though I did sit up in my seat thinking that we would get a story of Rhagaer from Baristan but we didn't, which left me thinking, why we got Yunkai in this episode.

Anyway, that's all from me. I will say again, I did like this episode, just when some of my favourite characters are dying, I thought it would be even better.

unrealistic expectations of a television series. not sure how you could've thought your feelings would be more than remotely close given the medium.

[Isildur's Mane]

unrealistic expectations of a television series. not sure how you could've thought your feelings would be more than remotely close given the medium.

I think this is a bit unfair, and a bit rude. This is my opinion, if you disagree then argue your side, don't just dismiss it.

Why do you think I should feel feelings when watching a TV show? Why do you think that, because it is a different medium, I can't expect to feel the same feelings, when the same - even more - characters are dying?

Yes, I said I was shocked, and I wasn't saying to do exactly what was in the book - I was just comparing the two - sorry if it came across that way and you thought I wanted exactly the same things.

All I was saying is I wanted to get that rollercoaster of emotions that I got in the book.

Please, next time don't be so dismissive, you may not have meant it, but it came across as rude.

[Tyria Targaryen]

I've seen it a second time now, and I'll have to raise my original vote to a 10.

In "The Rains of Castamere," I knew the Red Wedding was coming, but I found the visual medium much more successful for me at building the tension and really revealing the horror of the scene. I found the sense of foreboding almost overwhelming... largely because of the way that they broke the scene up and intercut with other scenes but then kept coming back over and over to the same event, in the same place. And then, of course, there was David Bradley's terrific and perverse performance as Walder Frey. He creeped me out much more on screen than he did in the book... and he creeped me out in the book. The Twins felt depraved and claustrophobic... and we kept coming back, over and over and over again. So yeah, I thought the structure of the episode did a great job of building tension. It just did it in a completely different way than the book did it.

Okay, now I'm going to say something not for the purpose of starting a Catelyn argument but just simply for the purpose of stating how successful I think this episode was... I do not like Catelyn Stark (and no, it's not about Jon). Basically, we just have a really serious personality conflict. ;)

When I first read the Red Wedding, I really didn't feel a thing for Catelyn. I felt for Robb, I felt for Grey Wind, I felt for the Northern Army... and I was angry at the Frey/Bolton betrayal, angry later when I learned of the treatment of the bodies, angry at the atrocity itself and the violation of hospitality laws. But I did not feel anything for Catelyn.

Michelle Fairley's performance, though, did make me feel for Catelyn. It was a performance powerful enough that it put me right there and made me experience the horror that Catelyn was experiencing. I know that's supposed to be my experience when I read the chapter in the book, but it didn't happen for me. On second viewing, btw, I felt more for Catelyn than I felt the first time.

I'd call that a powerful performance... and a powerful episode.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Tyria Targaryen

[teemo]

I'm giving it a 9. Although I have been pretty pissed at D&D since season two, I still expected this episode to be pretty good, and I am kind of a book purist with high standards. I don't think they have the capabilities to produce something totally and utterly brilliant, but they did very well when adjusting my expectations.

The Bad

-The pathetic, transparent attempt to emotionally manipulate the audience by having Robb and Talisa pick out baby names literally minutes before she was stabbed in what looked like a prison shanking from Oz

-The fact that there was no real sense of foreboding until the doors closed. Missed an opportunity by not having some clever foreshadowing at all, but I don't think D&D can do that.

-Grey Worm being ridiculous with his spear

-The way Roose killed Robb felt weird. I always imagined Roose slowly walking up to Robb and quietly saying the words to Robb (in the low voice he always uses) and then quickly and deftly stabbing him and twisting the knife. This was like a more quick and furious stab that felt like a couple more seconds should have been dedicated to.

-The throat-slitting CGI was terribly bad and some of the editing during the final moments was inexcusably sloppy.

-Only seeing Wendel Manderly for half a second.

-Richard Madden and Oona Chaplin's acting

-The Hound seems more like a watered down babysitter. I miss "wolf-bitch."

-Don't really like the dynamics between Jon and Ygritte at this point. Feels too forcefully romanticized and I'm still pissed that they made viewers think she was cool with knowing Jon is still a crow. I thought they did that so he would have more of an outlet, someone to talk to about his true feelings, but then that never happened.

-Dany's storyline didn't fit in this Stark-centric episode and felt more like an afterthought.

-GW dying without getting to do absolutely anything

-The lack of bannermen. It really did kind of suck, and I wasn't expecting to. Not knowing anyone in that room except for Wendel for half a second definitely made it have much less of an impact on me than it did in the books.

-Walder took it a little too far with his comments to Talisa, with the "inside her" remarks in particular

-Tormund blowing off Orell's comment about hearing noises in the tower.

Neither or Indifferent

-I wish they built up the importance of guest right more in previous episodes and it was kind of mentioned in this one, but I think it will definitely be addressed in this weekend's episode (how terrible breaking guest right truly is).

-The Blackfish department was weird. It's gotten a lot of people now too to think that Edmure and the BF were involved in the wedding. Not sure if that was intentional or what, but makes me wonder why BF had to even be there in the first place considering he barely said more than a sentence or two.

-I kind of wanted to see Cat go mad and although I think the Freys had no issue with killing her, in the books I always assumed she would have been taken hostage if she didn't lose her mind. At the same time, however, the catatonic state worked alright.

-I love the famous "Jaime Lannister sends his regards line," but I understood why it was changed for television.

-Talisa being stabbed. It was definitely shocking but I'm in the middle between good idea and over-the-top. I know it definitely gave more of a "shock factor," but with how much I hated that romance story, it felt a little heavy-handed.

The Good

-Michelle Fairley's amazing acting

-David Bradley's acting

-Maisie Williams acting

-Loved how it ended with no music in the credits.

-Appreciated that the final scene felt like it was in the eyes of cat like it should be and not all about the lame twu wuv story between Talisa and Robb. FINALLY, it was about Cat. Damn right.

-The scene where Cat finds Roose's chainmail gave me book chills.

-I'm glad Cat didn't talk about her hair. It was a THOUGHT. So it wouldn't have made sense or translated well at all.

-Lots of book dialogue, especially toward the very end and I thought the apology scene with Robb was one of the most true to the novels.

-Tobias Menzies is such a perfect Brutus.

-I like Jorah's jealousy.

-I actually found the brief Sam/Gilly scene sweet. The length of it was perfect for the show.

-The Hound and Arya have great chemistry. Love the fierceness they both share.

-"Stop hodoring!" And everything Hodor did.

-The attack of the direwolves. Awesome.

-I'm glad Bran and Rickon finally broke up and liked the conversation between them all and the chemistry.

-Art Parkinson in a fabulous young actor.

-Jon finally got attacked by Orell the eagle.

First time I've given a 9 since Blackwater.

[Valar Morghulis Not Today]

Could nitpick (mainly about lack of bannermen and Cat just going catatonic and the amount of time it then took for her to die) and also think it would have been even better if the last shot was Arya getting hit by the axe and not knowing where it came from. I'm also a believe that Rob warged into Grey Wind after his own death, but overall it was absolutely incredible. It totally worked on screen (more than staying completely 100% true to the books would have done).

As an episode as a whole, I can only give it 10. I've loved every single episode of the whole series, but this for me was executed so well, (and had such an effect on my unsullied friends, wish I'd been able to record it) that it is my favourite episode. Pure and simple I loved it.

The North Remembers.

[GBNova]

First post here. I am pretty green when it comes to the whole GOT story. Most of the time I don’t know what’s coming as I am not a reader of the books and have read few spoilers. I knew Talisa died in this one, and that Cat and Robb died in the same episode, but not necessarily in this one. I wasn’t really expecting all 3 were to die in the same scene. I know, “Red Wedding” should have sounded some alarm bells.

Anyway, pretty shocking and desperately sad for the Stark family. I guess this is the way it goes for them. That said, I feel like I could stand to have a few months off after watching this one.

Edited June 7, 2013 by GBNova

[Tywin's bastard]

I thought the change from Jinglebell to Frey's wife was a PC move as well. The scene would have worked better for me if they'd have kept Jinglebell.

PC? That made me laugh. Because he's a halfwit and that killing women and finding them disposable is PC? Because a show that's killing children worries about PC?

[Hiram McDrogon]

On Jinglebell: so far the show has almost completely cut out fools; the only exception that comes to mind is Dontos juggling in the background in the Blackwater episode. It'd be too weird to suddenly throw the fools in this episode, without them already existing in the world.

Mind you, I think the fools are partly gone from the show for (valid!) PC reasons. It would just look awful.

[ExBruinsFan]

Mind you, I think the fools are partly gone from the show for (valid!) PC reasons. It would just look awful.

See, this attitude baffles me. With all the horrors in this show, showing a retarded person is 'the line' you don't want the show to cross?

[Hiram McDrogon]

See, this attitude baffles me. With all the horrors in this show, showing a retarded person is 'the line' you don't want the show to cross?

I mean having a bunch of people with Down's Syndrome or cerebral palsy or whatever, dressed in motley, wandering around the courts and falling over and having our heroes laugh at their pitfalls would simply not look good. "And now, a hilarious interlude as the local disabled kid gets kicked by the nobles of the realm!" Along with Daario's beards and Catelyn's face-gouging, it's something that works fine on the page but wouldn't look good on screen.