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How would you rate episode 309?


How would you rate episode 308?  

1,332 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

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I gave it a 10, and this is the first 10. Best episode of the season by far.

I was intermittently in tears since Jon left Ygritte behind, and then Rickon/Bran, poor wee Arya and Catelyn... It was so good. The RW was different than in the books, it had a very different feel to it as it was awkward but somewhat joyful, whereas in the books there was a feel of impending doom, but I think it worked fantastically anyway. I'm also so happy that Jon's storyline is finally shaping up nicely, and I now recognise the Jon I love in the books. Please, keep going in this direction and don't muck Jon up again!

One thing I couldn't tell, did Blackfish die too?

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This is an 8 for me, after a long of consideration. They failed at capturing the atmosphere, which is the thing that really sets this scene apart. That Catelyn chapter is full of dread from start to finish, but they actively went against it and took what, to me, seemed like the easy way out: hide what you're going to do until the last minute, to heighten the shock value. Shock is easy, as any number of shlock horror films will reveal. Controlling the atmosphere, unsettling people in subtle ways, that's hard.

Totally agree there with you. So many details they forgot which could have set the atmosphere to a great point. (Edmure's wife crying during the whole wedding is the first that comes to my mind)

Also, whatever happened to Greatjon Umber? I miss his him. It seems the writers thought it's the same character as BlackFish and saved some coin, but it seems pretty annoying to me to leave out such a great character (and so important in the RW IMO)

On the other hand, Daenerys' scenes where well made, as always. Even having changed the conquest of Yunkai (I miss Belwas too), i like the way they're depicting the growing attraction between the mother of dragons and Daario, and Jorah's implication, though i think they could make it a little more subtle. They risk to transform this into a Sitcom love story (like Robb with Talysa... i'm glad she finally died), where it should be all about hidden and repressed attractions.

And everything seems to be going fine in the north. I like it how they ended the Bran-Osha group, though Bran's telechinesis abilities seem to have appeared all of a sudden (mainly fault of the previous episodes)

Jon's desertion seems a bit hastily made for what i had expected from the previous episodes. I never really liked how his relationship was depicted in the series, but in the last 2 episodes there was a build up growing in intensity between him and the wildling girl and when i saw the quick fighting and escaping it just felt somewhat anticlimatic.

8/10 IMO, i liked it in general, leaving appart some flaws.

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Absolutely great. My only problems:

1) Robb holding his wife after being pierced with arrows, not a tear in his eye.

He was probably in shock. The actor played the scene as if Robb were kind of "out of it" which was the right move. His body is in shock, his mind is in disbelief, he doesn't know how to react. He just stares like a zombie.

Edited by Khal Pono
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Seeing RW unfold was less intense than I expected. The scene in the book hurt a lot more, even though I had been spoiled for it by spending too much time on this board and knew what was coming. That said, the North remembers. I'd like to hear of Rain over the Twins or the Rains of the Dreadfort sometime soon. Make it happen GRRM.

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9/10 mainly because I pretty much don't give perfect scores. Oh, and also because of the giant "Huh?!" moment when Jorah explained how Yunkai had been taken.

Glad they didn't show Catelyn going into hysterics. I don't think that would have translated well to the screen. All the actors involved were fantastic.

Wasn't a big fan of the blocking, or whatever it's called, during the massacre: both Robb and Catelyn had almost fly-by killers. That makes sense because they wanted to focus on the dying stars, but still didn't quite work.

EDIT: Just want to say that I mostly thought it was fantastic! What I've written above looks a bit too negative - those were nitpicks.

Edited by lostinasia
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- More connection with Talisa than plain ol' non-entity whatsherface Westerling. So the gut-wrenching death of Talisa made up for the lack of northern bannermen for me

- The RW was depicted as grubby, clinical, and completely lacking in any sort of poetic finale for characters. Which is how it should be. This isnt a glorious death. Its a shitty, unjust, unwarranted death, that should provoke rage.

- Catelyn. Her changes were understandable for TV, and Michelle Fairley made them incredible. When she screams into a catatonic state, you pretty much see her soul leave her body. Amazing. Fucking amazing actually.

- I could go on and on, but yeah, ten.

ETA: Definitely did not mean "the gut-wrenching death of Talisa" as a play on words. Fetus stabbing is never ok.

Edited by Young Fish
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While a good, solid, and emotionally charged episode, it didn't deliver on all that I expected this event to be, especially considering that this was the key event that made the Producers want to make this adaptation in the first place. I gave it an 8.

What worked for me:

  • David Bradley's portrayal of Walder Frey was mind-blowing in its awesomeness. In every scene where he's needling Rob (and his own daughters and granddaughters in the bargain), my unsullied husband was laughing out loud, and I just sat there thinking, Dude, don't even start liking this character, he truly is one of the most despicable POS characters in the whole series... Yet even knowing how things would turn out, I was smiling along, too. Now that is some great acting, and the dialogue sure didn't suck either.
  • Rob's asking his mother's advice (finally) - Yes, as Ran stated in his analysis, it was a bit too little, too late, but still, I was glad that this scene was in there, as it at least evoked a smidgen of the love and respect that these two characters shared. Well acted by Michelle Fairley and Richard Madden.
  • Arya vs. The Hound tete a tete - Maisie Williams and Rory McCann nailed this scene; it was both funny and heart-wrenching at the same time. Funny, because boy, these two sure know how to push each others' buttons! Heart-wrenching because it really did sum up how very close Arya was to her one and only desire, a reunion with her family, yet how she seems destined to never achieve it.
  • Death of Grey Wind - at first I was pissed that the direwolf was never freed and allowed to go out like a heroic legend, but instead, was dispatched with no more effort than shooting fish in a barrel. On second thought, though, the emotions evoked by not having the viewer see the actual killing shots, but rather just hear the mournful cries of Grey Wind as he dies was actually more powerful IMHO.

What didn't work for me:

  • They should have saved the scenes in Yunkai, Jon and the Wildlings, and Bran and company in the tower room for another episode. Each of these events are very important in their own right (Dany's major victory over the slaver city, Jon's abandonment of the Wildlings and his escape, Bran's first purposeful warging of both Hodor and Summer) and should have had more time and space to breath. Here they were wasted in the wake of the Red Wedding.
  • At least one or two scenes establishing Robb's relationships to his key bannermen/women would have gone far setting up the emotional devastation of their deaths. As things played out, seeing random Northmen getting butchered really didn't have any where near the emotional impact it should have had and only contributed to the overall savagery of the event.
  • Robb and Talisa's baby naming scene - I know why the scene was included, but it came off as being really cliched and unnecessary to me.
  • Cat's catatonia - Since Jinglebell was never introduced, I guess it made sense to substitute Lord Walder's young wife, but it still seemed to hit a false note to me. But more importantly, where was the face rending, or her protestations not to cut her hair, as Ned always loved it? Having her stand mute and catatonic as her throat was cut was yet another choice that significantly dampened the emotional impact of the final scene.

I think that this episode falls short of Blackwater in the capturing one of the most major events in the ASoIaF series. It didn't succeed as well in setting up the atmosphere of dread and the overall level of tension, nor was its delivery of the actual climax realized as well.

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That Bran scene was about time! I've been waiting all season for my favorite subplot of the series to get going! I'm also still waiting for Coldhands, but I hope I'll see him next time.

The Daenerys scenes were kind of meh to disapointing. Was hoping to see Barristan kick some ass, but got Grey Worm instead. It still made sense though and was ok to watch so meh.

Anyways, now towards the wedding. It did not live up to what I imagined while reading, especially the part where Catlyn claws at her own face. Also Talisas death makes some events in ADWD impossible to adapt to the series and it also means tha Robb has no heir. But despite those small complaints I liked the Red Wedding, especially the Sandor and Arya part.

Best scene: Bran's warging and his farewell to Osha and Rickon

Worst scene: impatient Daenerys

All in all: 9 out of 10 and my personal favorite episode this season

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I'm somewhat surprised at all the tens in all honesty.

I tend to agree with much of the "official" review (especially regarding the "Oh Shit! It's a trap! Moment). In all honesty, I found the RW somewhat underwhelming. There were a few nice twists (stabbing Talisa in the womb multiple times was pretty shocking, as was Catelyn slitting his wife's throat), but overall, I really didn't feel that much sadness. Obviously I've read it several times before, so the impact might have dulled a bit, and perhaps the burning of the tents next week will bring a degree of gravitas to the occasion, yet for the most part, it really wasn't that effective.

Why is this? I think a lot of it simply stems from the fact that I give far less of a shit about show Robb, show Catelyn etc than I do their book counterparts. That's a result of two seasons' worth of poor characterisation, which cannot be saved by piling on the sympathy at the RW. The seeds for the RW should have been sowed months prior. They weren't, and that lessened the occasion for me. There were other things too. Grey Wind dying like a bitch, Arya acting so damned calm about the whole thing. Obviously, the scene did its job; Twitter went apeshit, people will probably be shocked. I can't help thinking though that it could have been so much better.

The Bran/Rickon scene did far much more for me emotionally than the RW. I think the separation was done nicely, I liked the way that Jojen and Meera took a back seat to allow the Osha/Rickon/Bran relationship to flourish. All in all I thought that bit was fantastic (maybe seeing the attack through Summer's eyes would have made it even better, but meh). All the other scenes were fine (there is only so much you can do with choreographed sword-fights).

I gave it an 8. I should've given it a 7. It was by no means a 10. Breaking Bad 3X12/13, 4X13 are tens. The Wire 2X11, 4x12/13 is a ten. This was not a ten.

Edited by The Third Reed
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This is an 8 for me, after a long of consideration. They failed at capturing the atmosphere, which is the thing that really sets this scene apart. That Catelyn chapter is full of dread from start to finish, but they actively went against it and took what, to me, seemed like the easy way out: hide what you're going to do until the last minute, to heighten the shock value. Shock is easy, as any number of shlock horror films will reveal. Controlling the atmosphere, unsettling people in subtle ways, that's hard.

Looking forward to reading your full review and your weekly video. I'm sort of wondering why you gave it as high as an 8, because your comments sound like you didn't care for the episode very much.

Or maybe you just didn't like that particular aspect (lack of dread, unpleasantness before the sudden betrayal)...

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9/10. By FAR the best episode of the season so far (and up there with Blackwater for the best overall), but I was still irked by some of the more pointless omissions. None of Roose giving Robb Theon's skin, no Sandor kicking ass... but eh.

Still an amazing episode. I knew it was coming as well as anyone, but the incredible acting ensured it still hurt.

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