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Asha Wrote the Bastard Letter (Theon I, TWOW Spoilers)


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This is what I thought since the night the gift chapter was 'published'. In fact, the Asha-theory was brought up the same evening the chapter had come out, and it was discussed in some of the older Theon I (TWOW) threads. If I remember correctly, the theory did not have much impact on this board because we soon realized that it is far from certain that Theon could have told Asha who Abel 'really' was, apart from the fact that he was a singer. I considered the Asha theory briefly, but because of this problem I did not pursue it any further.

Now I went back to the text again after reading the OP's theory and I would like to add this:

There is indeed no indication in ADWD that Theon has any idea who Mance might be. This is supported by the fact that he never, not once, remarks on Abel's military experience or his abilities as a fighter. Instead he comes to the conclusion that the "singer"'s plan is "madness", and this doesn't come as a surprise to him, because "all singers are mad". He tried to prevent Mance from going through with his "mad" plan by telling him what would happen to them if they were caught. These are instances where we would suspect that the subject of being King-Beyond-the-Wall would have been brought up by either Mance or Theon, at least it would have to leave a trace in Theon's internal monologue when he reflects on "Abel"'s fate and his own. But he always refers to Abel not as a fighter, but as a singer only, and he never thinks about the consequences of either being caught with the King-Beyond-the-Wall or about the consequences this could have with regard to the wildlings who recently attacked the North. If he really knew about Abel's identity, it would be madness on Theon's part not to include this information into his fretting and begging.

On the other hand, this might actually be explained with the help of the bad writing card. It is clearly GRRM's intention to keep Abel's identity a secret for as long as possible, so that the pink letter will have a greater impact on those who didn't spot the clues throughout Theon's last chapters in ADWD. These clues are, in fact, strange. For example: The spearwives suddenly start talking wildling slang, they refer freely to the Wall, they admit that they climbed it in order to raid the lands beyond and they even refer to the men of Bolton and Manderly as "kneelers". This is clearly meant as a clue for readers. Many people on this board said that they didn't realize who Abel was until this moment, because suddenly it was obvious where the six spearwives had gone after they had been mentioned in Melisandre I (ADWD). Now, Theon's reaction is questionable: he doesn't react at all. This, however, can be explained by several factors: He might have been in fear and didn't fully realize what they said. Or he migh have known all along that he was dealing with wildlings, most likely since he and Abel had their little chat. Or GRRM might have ignored the fact that Theon would have had to identify the washerwomen as spearwives in favour of keeping up the suspense. We don't know. In any case, we don't know if the fact that Theon knew that the women were wildlings does actually imply that he knew that Abel was Mance Rayder. The women treat Abel as Mance, and basically the only concession they make to his secret identity is not calling him by his real name. However, all their references to Abel in Theon I (ADWD) seem to support the theory that they would expect Theon to know who he is dealing with, for example reassuring him that Abel's word is as solid as possible. This would be really bad writing, because it is impossible then that Theon would not once remark on this fact in his inner monologue, but it is a possibility.

Therefore I am no longer sure that this argument is actually valid with regard to the Asha theory.

There is also another argument: Many people seem to think that the letter writer's intention would be to draw a wildling army to Winterfell. But as far as we know, there is no way anyone in Winterfell would even know about the wildling army. Maybe I am missing something here, because nearly everyone seems to think this was the main intention. However, Mance left Castle Black way before Jon decided to have Val look for Tormund and his people, he wouldn't know if any of his people were still alive, he wouldn't know that they had been allowed to pass, he wouldn't know their number or the number of fighters among them. As far as Mance and the spearwives (and therefore Ramsay) know, Jon has not an army but a Castle that is almost impossible to defend from the south, manned with a small crew of inept crows, full of tired and wounded wildling prisoners, and almost out of provisions. There is no threat there (in my opinion, the letter's intention was not to provoke Jon to go to war, but to threaten him into giving up Arya, Theon and some hostages).

So I was wondering why people believe the letter writer knew about the wildling army.

I know some people on this board suspect that Mance might have ways of communicating with his people. I don't think this is likely. If it was possible, why not make better use of it? Furthermore, there is no reason to believe that Mance lied when he told Jon they didn't have trained ravens: Jon never saw any ravens in his camp, and it is likely that most wildlings can't read. Of course they could theoretically communicate via warging, or they could use any kind of magic. This is a possibility, of course, but there is nothing in the text to support it, not even the smallest hint.

We do know since the gift chapter that Bolton had spies at Castle Black, but as far as we know, they all left when Stannis did, and there is no reason to assume that Ramsay or Roose have a way of communicating with someone at Castle Black. If this was the case, they would know that "Arya" and Theon did not arrive as Castle Black, contrary to what is assumed by the letter writer.

It is possible, however, that Stannis knows, because he communicates with Jon via raven mail, and it is therefore possible that Asha knows. Also she knows about Stannis' intention to send Arya to Castle Black (although she also knows that Theon would not be sent there, so this is also an argument against her).

So the Asha theory is interesting and it is a valid possibility. But I do not find it utterly convincing. The motive is a bit of a stretch, which goes for any theory that proposes anyone else than Ramsay as the letter writer: Apart from the fact that it is not likely that any of the suspects even know about Jon's newly aquired military strength, there is no way anyone could have predicted Jon's reaction. And there is so much that could have gone wrong: Jon might have delivered Stannis' family into Ramsay's hands, he might have delivered Val and Mance's son, the letter might have been intercepted and Bolton might have learned who was responsible for "Arya"'s rescue in the first place, or (from the point of view of Asha) Jon might have decided to do nothing and wait for Arya and "Reek" to arrive.

Also, in order to explain how Asha could have known about Mance, we would have to accept a piece of really bad writing in an otherwise almost flawless chapter in ADWD. For now, I still believe that Ramsay wrote the letter, on the basis of some misinformation and with some lies added on his part (the lies concerning Mance, mostly because I do not believe that GRRM would have the heart to actually go through with this, and since Jon III, we actually deserve a break).

Very good analysis. The fascinating thing about the Pink Letter is that everytime you analyse it (again), you discover something new.

I am currently intrigued by two points:

1) We do not know if the Theon sample chapter for TWoW takes place before or after Jon's last chapter in ADwD. So we can't tell which parts of the Pink Letter are true and which are lies.

2) We cannot be sure that the letter came by raven to Winterfell.

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Only three possibilities make sense, given the knowledge and personal feel of the letter:

1. Mance wrote the letter' or

2. Ramsay wrote the letter; or

3. There was a time shift by the time the letter was delivered. Stannis' forces defeated the coalition of Freys, Manderly's, and Ramsay. Ramsay was forced to write the letter to Jon, with intent of getting the rest of the realm to believe Stannis is dead.

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[...]

Therefore I am no longer sure that this argument is actually valid with regard to the Asha theory.

That would make sense if Theon had a significantly greater level of knowledge concerning wildlings than Jon did before he came across Yggrite, but without that knowlege (which the reader has), there is no way for Theon to make the leap from the singer being a wildling to the singer being the former King-Beyond-the-Wall (or for all Theon knows, the current King-Beyond-the-Wall). So, if anyone in Stannis' camp has knowledge of Abel's identity, it would have to be through Stannis (who himself probably doesn't know that Melisandre sent Mance south to look for Arya).

There is also another argument: Many people seem to think that the letter writer's intention would be to draw a wildling army to Winterfell.

It certainly seems designed to draw Jon, though it's hard to tell what kind of knowledge the letter-writer might have of the wall, so I agree that the wildling army angle seems strange, but some of the consensus that comes out of these boards can be rather strange. Just the other day, I found out that on one of the game threads, it was decided that Asha Greyjoy was the most badass character in the books. I agree that she has a hard edge to her and some cunning, but really?

For now, I still believe that Ramsay wrote the letter, on the basis of some misinformation and with some lies added on his part (the lies concerning Mance, mostly because I do not believe that GRRM would have the heart to actually go through with this, and since Jon III, we actually deserve a break).

It would be interesting to see which parts of the letter are misinformation and which are genuine truth. The interesting thing about the prime suspects being Ramsay and Mance is that both characters are known for their misdirection, so regardless of who wrote it, some part of the letter is likely misleading.

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This... The entire argument is really constrained to three theories. Some of the other ones, like ramsey being deceived and boisterous, and the mance and the north theories are much better, and stannis and mance have much more to gain from the letter than asha.

Your pic is offensive.

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For those who don’t know it, GRRM confirmed that Theon I happens "before some of the events at the end of Dance."

http://grrm.livejournal.com/257002.html

This is why I suggest that – using Theon’s and Asha’s POVs as a “timestamp” – the Letter hasn’t been written yet, and I suspect it is through one of their POVs that we will learn the truth of its authorship.

Also, TLO and fassreiter, Thanks for the input!

While it seems you (and others) closed the door on Asha as a potential author a while ago, I still wonder what else "then he had to say who Abel was" could possibly imply... particularly when followed by "the washerwomen who weren't truly washerwomen." To me, it seems GRRM is using subtle language to keep the mystery of what Theon may or may not know intact (until TWOW is published), such that it falls to reader interpretation (for now) to either conclude that Abel was simply a singer with a plan, or that Mance may have actually told Theon who he is in full. I for one take away from the "washerwomen" statement that Theon knows more than he's letting on at present, but that we won't completely confirm what that is until we get the "big reveal" about the Letter’s authorship and truthfulness. For me, this sentiment stems from believing that the Theon/Abel conversation we don't get to witness is likely more important than simply conveying the escape plan, which you can choose not to believe if you prefer.

Alternatively, the first idea I explored when I read Theon I is that – in that same Theon/Abel conversation we are not privy to – Theon may have helped Mance pen the Letter behind closed doors while Mance and company were plotting his and ”Arya’s” escape. If this angle appeals to you, consider that Theon likely has a unique ability to assist any potential author other than Ramsay with tone, word selection, etc., which I feel is hinted at in the “inseparability” of Reek and Ramsay, and makes for several interesting potential plays.

Either way, with or without Theon’s help, Theon’s awareness of the already crafted Letter in the above-proposed scenario stacks up neatly to me, in that Theon’s “echoing” of the Letter’s contents could later confirm his awareness of it. Furthermore, if he informed Stannis “off screen” about the Letter’s contents, this would also explain Stannis’ “it may even be true” remark.

BUT, as indicated in other posts, if Mance wrote the Letter, in Winterfell, either “alone,” with Theon, or as an “temporary ally” to Ramsay, I have the following collection of hang-ups:

  1. If Mance truly wanted Jon to come to WF, wouldn’t he also then not free “Arya”, and compose the Letter while Jon still believed the real Arya was held captive in WF for maximal impact and insurance that he march?
  2. Does Mance know about the baby swap yet? If he believes Jon has his son, wouldn’t he simply go through with the mission and return home (if possible) instead of risk his son’s life? Meanwhile, if he believes Jon does not have his son, wouldn’t he (as indicated directly above) retain “Arya” as a captive / bargaining tool, and “inspire” Jon to march without orchestrating an escape at all?
  3. Why bother with a “code letter” which might not have the desired result? Why not simply spell out his desires clearly, since Jon already trusts him with Arya’s life and will likely accede?
  4. Why not seal the Letter properly?
  5. Why would the term “wildling princess” appear in the Letter at all, when both Jon and Mance know she’s not a true princess?

On the flipside, if Ramsay wrote the Letter, Theon would not know the contents, so the notion of Theon “echoing” the Letter’s contents to Stannis – with Ramsay as the author – doesn’t work for me either. In short, since Ramsay wouldn’t author the Letter until after the escape, this would mean Theon wouldn’t know of its existence, and any “parroting” of the Letter’s contents or tone would be purely coincidental.

For me, if I follow the logic that it is most likely that Theon does not know the contents of the Letter, it comes back to (A) Ramsay wrote it and it’s partially true or (B) there’s an alternate author that’s not likely Mance.

So, by Theon showing up in “camp Stannis” and offering up details about “Abel”, “the washerwomen,” “his bride” and “Reek” – in a world where the Letter doesn’t exist yet – he could be (willingly or not) providing much of the info required to pen the Letter to its author.

However, considering the “players” in camp Stannis, the fact that Stannis is so completely unafraid of Ramsay as indicated in this quote continues to haunt me:

Stannis bristled at that. "I defeated your uncle Victarion and his Iron Fleet off Fair Isle, the first time your father crowned himself. I held Storm's End against the power of the Reach for a year, and took Dragonstone from the Targaryens. I smashed Mance Rayder at the Wall, though he had twenty times my numbers. Tell me, turncloak, what battles has the Bastard of Bolton ever won that I should fear him?"

Furthermore, I’m inclined to believe that Stannis does not know the contents of the Letter, or else he wouldn’t send “Arya” to the soon-to-be-undefended Wall.

Since Asha has some interesting potential motives and the potential for access to information – as well as being a POV – all I’m suggesting is to maybe not “write her off” in the event that her authorship is what GRRM’s been planning all along.

Meanwhile, considering the “popular alternative” – that Ramsay wrote the Letter with some amount of misinformation – I still have issues there as well:

Mainly, why shroud not only the Letter’s contents, but its authorship in mystery? Why not simply make it clear(er) that the Letter was written by Ramsay by way of it being sealed properly at the very least? Why “play up” the possibility of alternate authorship by having select characters paraphrase segments of a Letter they’ve never read?

It just seems to me like there are clues in place for GRRM to slam dunk an alternate author angle, while – in the meantime – he’s left us in the land of zero resolution or there wouldn’t be so many differing opinions and conclusions on the matter.

Note that these are the same books in which GRRM killed off several “main characters” at least somewhat unexpectedly, and also exposed – three books later – that Lysa killed Jon Arryn, for example, who was likely not most people’s primary suspect leading up to the reveal.

Anyway, I don’t think anyone is “seriously misreading” anything, but rather I feel like many of us are trying to come up with all the possible “solutions” so we’re not as blindsided when TWOW hits. At least that’s my personal angle. :)

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Is it possible that bran wrote the letter and is also the hooded man in the ghost in Winterfell chapter. By no means am I saying bran physically is in Winterfell and what I'm suggesting might be a stretch but bran through the weir wood trees and warging ravens could easily know what is happening in Winterfell. In the ghost in Winterfell chapter Theon comes across a person who knows who he is,

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Wrong button...

From what I have read in the forums a lot of people think it is Theon seeing a manifestation of his internal struggle reek vs Theon. I some what agree but also think the possibility of him being warged by bran is not to far of a stretch because Theon has mentally been broken. If bran can slip inside hodor what's to say he can't do the same with reek. When the hooded man asks what he is still doing there I think it could represent bran in the mind of reek, only while inside his mind bran or Theon rediscovers his the real Theon hiding beneath the surface. Theon spends a lot of time walking by himself in these chapters where people are being murdered so could it be possible that bran through Theon is responsible for this and could this be his way of trying to get Jon to Winterfell to go down into the crypts to discover some hidden truth about his parentage. Theon/bran would easily be able to get a letter sealed with the Hilton's sigil and the word bastard and all the information inside. Could this also have anything to do with Theon and the whispering weir wood that remembers his name and also why the raven wants him to go to the island with the trees in the gift chapter.

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I'm inclined to believe that Asha wrote the letter not necessarily for all the reasons bandied about but addition...

Asha probably has the best mind for strategy as well as tactics...she learned tactics over the shoulder of her father....she learned strategy from her mentor reading at the desk of Roderik Harlaw...she understands the implications of what is in the letter and how it is written and the reaction to it..

Asha is no longer a captive of Stannis but is a confidant...note Stannis calls for the Kraken not bring her...note she is accompanied by her men (Qarl and Tris) not Stannis's men...note when Stannis sends Jeyne away he sends Alysanewith her and specifically denies Massey taking Asha...

Asha has ulterior motives not only the Queensmoot, her mother, her brother, but I think she harbours a fond wish to create her own "realm" on the Stoney Shore and Sea Dragon Point if she is unable to recreate a Queensmoot...

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Stannis on the other hand, has everything he needs to write the letter, including motivation. I don't buy that he's too honourable to forge a letter, not after Renly. A lot of people disagree with that, but let's just imagine for a minute that in the desperate situation he finds himself in he is willing to forge a letter and lie to save his chances of getting the throne that is rightfully his. Consider this:

I keep remembering when Stannis was dictating that incest letter to maester Pylos and Stannis made him take the part out about "my beloved brother Robert" because it was a lie. Because of this I have a hard time imagining that he wrote the bastard letter.

Stannis doesn't believe that he had anything to do with Renly's death. There is a passage in ASoS (I think) where he is talking to Davos about Renly and says he is innocent.

If the pink letter was not written by Ramsay, I seriously doubt it was written by Stannis.

Asha or Mance seem good candidates & I think Asha has more motivation bases on the OP and this thread in general.

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For those who don’t know it, GRRM confirmed that Theon I happens "before some of the events at the end of Dance."

http://grrm.livejour...com/257002.html

This is why I suggest that – using Theon’s and Asha’s POVs as a “timestamp” – the Letter hasn’t been written yet, and I suspect it is through one of their POVs that we will learn the truth of its authorship.

I agree that the letter was likely written after the events in Theon's chapter in The Winds of Winter. Arguably, it makes the most sense that Ramsay would write it after indeed routing Stannis' forces (even if perhaps Stannis himself were not there). This explanation integrates Abel's absence from the actual escape and the falling of the spearwives as they helped Theon and Jeyne in their escape. The only major flaw with the face-value explanation of the letter is as you point out, that it was sealed with a smear of pink wax instead of a neat seal.

However, if the sloppy seal is indeed a sign of forgery, Mance by far is the most textually supported candidate as he would be privy to all the details of the letter, including Jon's sensitivity to his own bastardy, and a wildling would be the most likely candidate to use "crows" as a slur against brothers of the Night's Watch. Asha, on the other hand, would be completely out of left field. She has never met Jon, knows little of him and much of the knowledge displayed in the letter would necessitate a level of sloppiness with information that seems out of character for Stannis or Mance.

Anyway, I don’t think anyone is “seriously misreading” anything, but rather I feel like many of us are trying to come up with all the possible “solutions” so we’re not as blindsided when TWOW hits. At least that’s my personal angle. :)

Fair enough. Most of my posts on this forum have been devoted to defending uncertainty in the face of textual clues, so I sympathize with that position. I just saw an interpretation that strained credulity because of the nature of knowledge in Westeros. I concede that Asha writing the letter is not impossible, just highly unlikely.

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To me the most important thing about the letter isn't who wrote it, but what it led to. Why would it be relevant that Asha wrote the pink letter if its only consequence was the unintended result of getting Jon assassinated?

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While it seems you (and others) closed the door on Asha as a potential author a while ago, I still wonder what else "then he had to say who Abel was" could possibly imply... particularly when followed by "the washerwomen who weren't truly washerwomen." To me, it seems GRRM is using subtle language to keep the mystery of what Theon may or may not know intact (until TWOW is published), such that it falls to reader interpretation (for now) to either conclude that Abel was simply a singer with a plan, or that Mance may have actually told Theon who he is in full. I for one take away from the "washerwomen" statement that Theon knows more than he's letting on at present, but that we won't completely confirm what that is until we get the "big reveal" about the Letter’s authorship and truthfulness.

Well, thank you for your theory, you actually made me think about the possibility of the Asha theory again and I will definitely keep it in mind as a possibility. My problem with this theory is the way GRRM wrote Theon I (in ADWD). If Theon did actually know that the singer was Mance Rayder, Theon's behaviour and thoughts do not make any sense to me. He doesn't seem to know anything about him, for example he reflects that the singer seemed intend on taking Eddard Stark's daughter with him. He even says to himself that they would all die for nothing (because Arya was "the wrong girl"). To him, Abel seems to be someone with a very specific agenda, but not a specific person. If Theon did indeed know any of the information passed on in the letter, about the fake execution and Jon's involvement in the "lie", why would he, in his own thoughts, refer to nothing but the rescue mission even when he tries to figure out Abel's motive? If he was able to tell Asha "who" Abel was, why didn't this knowledge enter into his thoughts before?

This is not meant to infer that your theory is wrong, but I would have trouble accepting this explanation. I would feel cheated if GRRM planted a hint in TWOW which goes against the scene that was depicted in ADWD. This would leave me as a reader no chance to figure it out and it would put a surprise effect before consistency.

Furthermore, I’m inclined to believe that Stannis does not know the contents of the Letter, or else he wouldn’t send “Arya” to the soon-to-be-undefended Wall.

This is a very good point!

Mainly, why shroud not only the Letter’s contents, but its authorship in mystery? Why not simply make it clear(er) that the Letter was written by Ramsay by way of it being sealed properly at the very least? Why “play up” the possibility of alternate authorship by having select characters paraphrase segments of a Letter they’ve never read?

I don't really know an answer to that. It could be a hint, that is right. I am a bit lost here, because I (and many people on this board) simply don't want the contents of the letter to be true. Maybe it is just cruelty on GRRM's part to give us such hints and make the letter be true after all. Over the course of the last two years, I have supported alternately almost any letter theory there is, including the Great Northern Conspiracy, the Coded-Letter-Theory, the Alliser-Thorne-Conspiracy and some more, because there are sufficient hints for all of them, but they also lack explanations, or consistency, in order to make them work from every possible angle. Whereas the only argument against the Ramsay explanation is the fact that the missing seal COULD be read as a hint. But it could also be read as a sign of his anger, agitation, of his current position or location. It would be easy to explain it, whereas it would be difficult (but not impossible) to explain all the elements of the more complex explanations sufficiently without making character appear as complete idiots in retrospective.

However, I think GRRM (as well as the tv show) presented Ramsay as much less of an idiot than he is generally perceived of on this board, and that some characters tend to be slightly overestimated. Even though Mance Rayder is my favourite character (and will probably always be), I can't help but agree with Theon that the rescue mission was "madness", also the spearwives were obviously not chosen for their intelligence (talking about killing Bolton men in the common hall - forgetting the rope that was essential to the escape plan...?), and maybe Melisandre was just trying to be polite when she attributed Mance's behaviour at Castle Black to a death wish he might have. So even though in my opinion Mance would have to be an idiot for revealing his identity to Theon in the first place, whereas Theon would have to be suffering from partial amnesia during his last chapter in ADWD, considering their recent actions, this is not impossible at all. The Arya theory might very well be the one with the least amount of inconsistency on this board.

The argument concerning the letter's paraphrasis, however, seems to point to Ramsay again. There is the "my-bride-and-my-Reek"-part, but there is also the reference to Mance's execution/Mance's cage "for all the world to see", which echoes something Mance said to Jon in ADWD. I agree with your arguments against the theory that Mance and Theon wrote the letter together, and I agree that it is not very likely that Mance as well as Theon would come up with the bride-and-Reek-phrase independently.

So if Mance wrote the letter and he did include the bride-Reek-phrase in order to evoke authenticity, why did he also include a phrase that would allow Jon to question the author's authenticity? And if he wanted to write a coded letter and the cage-phrase is meant as a clue to his identity, why include a phrase (bride-and-Reek) that cannot be deciphered at all and would only serve to confuse the recipient?

And if Theon and/or Asha wrote the letter, how is it possible that the cage-phrase is still in there? Even if Mance told Theon about the fake execution, and even if he used the exact same phrase, why would Theon/Asha include this phrase in a letter that is supposed to be written by Ramsay?

A likely explanation (apart from idiocy on Mance's part, sloppy writing on GRRM's part, or the power of coincidence) would be that Ramsay is the author, because he could have had enough "access" to both Theon and Mance. However, I don't like this possibility and I don't know what the point of the cage-phrase could be anyway, therefore, sloppy writing or coincidence might be the best explanation. And in this case, anything would be possible.

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I keep remembering when Stannis was dictating that incest letter to maester Pylos and Stannis made him take the part out about "my beloved brother Robert" because it was a lie. Because of this I have a hard time imagining that he wrote the bastard letter.

True, but Stannis was not so desperate then as now. And in Dance Stannis says to Jon, "Your father was a stubborn man as well. Honour, he called it. Well honour has its cost, as Lord Eddard learned to his sorrow."

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Meanwhile, considering the “popular alternative” – that Ramsay wrote the Letter with some amount of misinformation – I still have issues there as well:

Mainly, why shroud not only the Letter’s contents, but its authorship in mystery? Why not simply make it clear(er) that the Letter was written by Ramsay by way of it being sealed properly at the very least? Why “play up” the possibility of alternate authorship by having select characters paraphrase segments of a Letter they’ve never read?

I still don't entirely accept this line of reasoning from the "not Ramsay" camps. If the letter was not authored properly, Jon would have been suspicious anyway, since he'd already received at least one letter from Ramsay, and perhaps witnessed many, many more from Boltons over the years at Winterfell. Yet he thought nothing was up, even when Tormund says his bit.

How do we know the letter was sealed "properly" before anyway? What does "proper" mean here? Is there a Dreadfort stamp? We haven't been told there is, which I find curious. In fact, all that we know for sure is that ONLY the Boltons use PINK wax (pink is their colour, ooo err). So it might be that the Boltons use this identifying wax and don't stamp the letters with a flayed man at all (i.e. unlike the Starks do with a dire wolf).

Also we know Ramsay no longer has his father's Dreadfort ring. How easy is it to remake on? Not likely. But maybe one ca just use a wooden stamp, if so he'd still need a carpenter. Recall that Winterfell was utterly torched! Would there even be any stamps left once it was burned and looted by squatters?

Thoughts?

It just seems to me like there are clues in place for GRRM to slam dunk an alternate author angle, while – in the meantime – he’s left us in the land of zero resolution or there wouldn’t be so many differing opinions and conclusions on the matter.

Anyway, I don’t think anyone is “seriously misreading” anything, but rather I feel like many of us are trying to come up with all the possible “solutions” so we’re not as blindsided when TWOW hits. At least that’s my personal angle. :)

Agreed and well put. I'm also simply interested in exploring possibilities. I'm open to it being Asha, Mance, Stannis... or even one of the Freys. But I'm still erring on the side of Ramsay for now. It just plugs more holes to me.

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Further, Ramsay has strong motive, and there are many reasons to explain why the letter was rushed or brash.

  • Ramsay's dubious education/literacy and skill with letters
  • Sealing via wax becoming horribly difficult due to appallingly cold temperatures (Stannis' inkpots already frozen up) and ink flakes if it doesn't dry right (need warmth to dry!)
  • Just how he writes, really
  • It's how he talks too! No brainer
  • Wants to goad Jon, bully him, make the Watch panic to sew chaos, make Jon make mistakes (he did!)
  • Roose might not be around, so he's in mental mode
  • Previous letter being done in the presence of lords (signatures etc), more "official"/political, whereas pink letter not so
  • Wants to smash Jon out in the freezing snow while he's safe behind Winterfell's walls
  • Ramsay being generally very hasty and always angry
  • Ramsay despising Jon/bastards
  • Needing to kill the last possible Stark heir asap
  • Panic because of infiltrators at Winterfell
  • Panic because of info from Mance
  • Panic because of misinfo from Stannis/Manderley
  • General war-time panic, maybe disputes with his father or sudden time pressure on him (e.g over being heir to Dreadfort vs Roose's new potential heir via fat Walda)
  • And so on and so on...

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