[Book Spoilers] Catelyn @ the end

[Daena the Defiant]

Indeed. Pathetic. How dare we all have our own opinions?

(Wow, really? :bs: )

I managed to watch the scene a second time, and I agree with everyone that the face-clawing may not have translated well on-screen, because of the way it's described, from Cat's POV, in the book. Her thinking it was ravens and worms crawling on her arms is really what made the scene work, and there's no real way for that to come across in a visual medium. Also agree that her already-dead expression as she gazed at Robb will make for a PERFECT Stoneheart face.

I wonder if they'll do some aftermath stuff next week, and still show us GW's head on Robb's body. (Please, no! :bawl: )

I am more concerned that they will have Catelyn's naked body thrown into the river.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Robb was completely lost, and the King became a boy again when he called for his mother.

Exactly this. Even as a father, it was heartbreaking. I also think they set it up will with Robb admitting his mistakes earlier and asking her advice. It was a nice reminder of the their true relationship as mother and son.

I'm still shocked that I'm shaken still the morning after.

As for the "my hair" comment...it only works if you see her mind slipping first internally. Absent that, her being concerned about her hair would look almost obscenely trite on-screen. And, you couldn't even shoot it properly because thoughts are so much faster than words. In the book, her hair is grabbed, that thought flashes through her mind, and then her throat is slit. If you tried to show that onscreen, someone would have to grab her hair, then pause long enough for her to say that line, then slit her throat. It would look stilted and staged.

As for the general criticism of a lack of foreboding...that's not the way I saw it. I saw that sense in Fairley's face the whole time. She may have a second or two of trying to convince herself that things were okay, but I thought her face never looked truly relaxed. But that's clearly subjective.

[Boi]

Actually, Cat's rage culminated in cutting Walder's wife's throat, while her hopelessness was further fueled by Frey stating he would simply 'get another'.

Catatonia is the opposite of accepting. It is complete withdrawal and a sympton of a deeper mental condition such as PTSD, which is non-gender specific, albeit someone would need to be catatonic for more than a mere 30 seconds of screen time for it to be 'official'. But it was enough to convey the intent that Cat was breaking down.

Catatonic often what a drunk gets when they have had a few, or when somebody has overdosed

Yes there is medical condition related as catatonic schizophrenia sometimes leading to being mute or deaf in similarity to this.

In a world of impaling, beheading, crucifiction, and in generality almost every other type of barbarism. I would have been expecting the other type of women who goes to the oppisite extreme of hysteria. You know the type that kicks the nuts, stabs you with a pair of scissors, or castrates for far less.

With those memories burning through her head of all that she has lost, to become what is to follow. Simply shutting down doesn't set that sceen, unless a zombie is the theme one is to expect of late?

You have researched catatonia tell me did you do the same for self harm or self multilation, the guilt of pain and loss inflicted as scars upon the body through also those memories of the mind when under extreme anxiety?

[Kasrith]

Perfection. The blank catatonia was perfect. The calm before she got herself slit, her entire world was gone with Robb, and after she was killed we were left just as catatonic. She acted the hell out of that scene

[bionic]

Such a great ending.

The silence as she had her throat slit got me.

[Brother Without Banners]

I do wish they would have had Roose come up from behind Robb while Robb stared at Cat, and had the sword go through him instead of the semi-rushed way they did it in the show, but top to bottom I thought it was a fantastic episode.

Arya and the Hound have been excellent the last few weeks in particular, and I really liked the Jon Snow escape scene and the pained look Ygritte had when Jon rode off.

[voodooqueen126]

I think they could've have Catelyn tell Roose that "Ned loved my hair" instead of that line about her bedding.

[freetickles]

I'm in the camp that this was done perfectly. Her reaction was much more realistic than clawing her face apart, and the final shot of her throat being slit was perfect (as was the silent credits, though I was expecting more Rains of Castamere).

This is just another example of book readers thinking different from the book means inferior to the book, and that's just not always (or even usually) the case.

[Harnisfechten]

This is just another example of book readers thinking different from the book means inferior to the book, and that's just not always (or even usually) the case.

but sometimes, different from the book IS inferior to the book.

It was an ok scene (the RW) but in almost every little part, the timing was off, or the actors were in weird positions on the set. I mean, it was just one badly-timed hit-and-run throat slitting after another. It didn't have good pacing. There were things that were drawn out and took too long (Cat's death after her scream), and things that were rushed (Robb getting stabbed by Roose).

Go back and re-watch "Baelor" S01E09. It was much better than this episode.

[Blaer Dayle]

I wanted just one hand to claw down either cheek, I think that would have worked and everything else could have worked out the same. This is HBO they arent afraid of doing a little makeup (see Tyrion, and Jon's new scars) and they still have to do her slit throat. People do all sorts of crazy things when in grief like ripping out hair and whatnot, and I would have liked it if they kept that in, so that when Stoneheart appears she is a character completely removed from Catelyn, having gone mad with grief and becoming something else entirely, rather than Catelyn with a slit throat.

[Gendels Children]

I really wanted the face clawing, they could easily have placed that in neatly between slitting the Frey wives throat (which was a nice touch by the way) and her going Catatonic.... IMO

[Gendels Children]

I wanted just one hand to claw down either cheek, I think that would have worked and everything else could have worked out the same. This is HBO they arent afraid of doing a little makeup (see Tyrion, and Jon's new scars) and they still have to do her slit throat. People do all sorts of crazy things when in grief like ripping out hair and whatnot, and I would have liked it if they kept that in, so that when Stoneheart appears she is a character completely removed from Catelyn, having gone mad with grief and becoming something else entirely, rather than Catelyn with a slit throat.

:agree: I totally agree with you there

[Daena the Defiant]

I wanted just one hand to claw down either cheek, I think that would have worked and everything else could have worked out the same. This is HBO they arent afraid of doing a little makeup (see Tyrion, and Jon's new scars) and they still have to do her slit throat. People do all sorts of crazy things when in grief like ripping out hair and whatnot, and I would have liked it if they kept that in, so that when Stoneheart appears she is a character completely removed from Catelyn, having gone mad with grief and becoming something else entirely, rather than Catelyn with a slit throat.

Don't forget that UnCat isn't merely Catelyn Stark with her face clawed off, she's also 'pudding soft' after being soaked in the river and her hair has fallen out, so we won't just have the slit throat as a visual signifier that it's basically a different character.

I really wanted the face clawing, they could easily have placed that in neatly between slitting the Frey wives throat (which was a nice touch by the way) and her going Catatonic.... IMO

Kissed~by~Fire, I see what you did there!

[Marillon]

A physical assault on herself wouldn't transfer to screen correctly without her inner monologue. It would just look like hysteria. The silence and desolation of her face screams transformation. That is: there was Catelyn before and now there is Catlyn after and the two cannot be reconciled.

when she is brought back as Uncat, it is her in this state

Thinking on the last part I agree, I think part of what really made the face clawing part was the act itself+her laughing+her blabbering about her hair and how much Ned loves it, it might have just looked a bit gratuitous if she just clawed her. Still a bit disappointed it didn't happen though.

[coco lionne]

At first, I too was a little disappointed that we didn't see the face-raking and crazy laughter, but after watching it again (and reading many great comments), I think it was done perfectly. Watching her face, I felt like I could hear her thinking the line, "it hurts so much, Ned....all our children....". And that intense pain just paralyzed her. Bravo, Michelle Fairley.

[Mammothsbane]

I was hoping to hear "someone make an end to it" or whatever that line is before the Frey guy drops in like a Faceless Man and slits her throat.

[RememberTheNorth]

I'm sorry but I have to say this version of RW was completely underwhelming. Was I the only person that thought that? Ever since Talisa was stabbed half a million times the scene seemed almost comical from then on compared to the detail of the book.

I'm totally not one of those people who stick completely to the book's interpretation 100% of the time but SoS version was just BETTER...

I was not a big fan of Fairley's acting at the end either. It just did not seem genuine enough and didn't at all dwell into madness as I wanted her to do. Overall I just think the emotional level was not at its height.

[Greywolf2375]

I actually loved it. She was dead inside before her blood was spilled.

How Michelle Fairley transformed her face (without shredding it) from jovial and beautiful, to madly desperate, to utter despair, to completely dead on the inside...that will haunt me. As a mother, I felt her death long before her throat was slashed.

In other words, I found it to be perfect.

I think I am ok without her clawing her face apart since we don't get the inner monologue/thought process of seeing her mind effectively come apart. Can she have done it and done it well? I absolutely think so. Do we lose anything without her doing that? I don't think so.

the damage to her face and neck can be done by crows or other beasties eating her face. IF they have her thrown in the water and IF we have her pulled out by a wolf there is plenty of plausible reason as to why her face can be ravaged.

The part of this that I don't like is who she chose to sacrifice - the wife instead of JInglebells. While Walder is quite free with however many seeds he plants, he is particular to his kids whereas his wife is just a broodmare. The fact that in the book he was willing to watch one of his own get sacrificed, to me, showed even more how much revenge meant to him.

[Faint]

Of course she's staying on, but they are going to talk as though she's gone because otherwise it would spoil Stoneheart.

I thought they might simply recast the part. After all, Catelyn after death looks so radically different than Catelyn in life.

[freetickles]

I thought they might simply recast the part. After all, Catelyn after death looks so radically different than Catelyn in life.

But then people wouldn't recognize that it was undead Catelyn. I think it has to be her, hopefully with a good deal of makeup on her throat, and on her skin to show even if she didn't claw her own face apart she did, you know, die.