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espec22

[book spoilers]What your non-reader friends/family thought and their predictions.

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Simple thing is, people want justice. There's enough injustice in reality, there's no need to sit through it every Sunday night.

Exactly. One of my friends who want to stop watching the show said to me "If I want to see how much cruel and evil people can be all I have to do is read a newspaper or something. The difference is that at least on the newspaper I can find good news too."

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An Unsullied friend said she didn't see it coming, but never liked Cat so is happy not to see her again (ehm...ok, yeah)

But another said the best thing: When Catelyn says 'show them what it means to lose what they love' it is actually GRRM talking about us, or rather showing us what it means to lose characters we love.

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Can't imagine GoT returns to HBO next year with the same level of viewership.

Well-balanced people don't watch a drama series and become invested in (reasonably) decent and good characters over three seasons, only to watch them murdered in a ghastly way and without any impending justice being done, and say, "Ah, that was satisfying."

So basically you're saying everyone who can appreciate the guts it took to do that to beloved characters, and the powerful emotions it inspires, is a psycho?

"Well balanced people" often enjoy a twist they didn't see coming. They enjoy the fact that the show makes them feel something, even if those feelings are rage and sorrow. They enjoy that this isn't some carbon copied pg-13 garbage. If they wanted that, they sure as heck wouldn't have subscribed to HBO.

The reason the red wedding is "satisfying" is because it is a perfect way to punch your readers/viewers in the gut. It's brilliant writing, and it's delivering on the theme of the story in a way no one can doubt. When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground.

This series is more grounded in realism than any other fantasy drama, and I like it that way. That does not make me a sick person who "delights" in the death of characters. I just appreciate a good story. If there are no stakes, if there is no danger, if everyone is just go end up all happily ever after in the end then why would I watch it? I'm not interested in watching "Care Bears Defend Rainbow Castle with the power of Friendship". For there to be light, there must be dark. For there to be good, there must be evil. And in GoT that means the Red Wedding needed to happen.

Exactly. One of my friends who want to stop watching the show said to me "If I want to see how much cruel and evil people can be all I have to do is read a newspaper or something. The difference is that at least on the newspaper I can find good news too."

If there wasn't an audience for this sort of gritty realism (even in a fantasy genre) then networks like "Investigation Discovery" wouldn't exist.

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Flatmates were in shock, and angry.

One thing that stood out, of their reactions was "so what's going to happen now? The Starks are dead! Who will fight the Lannisters?" And then lots of speculation about revenge. It seems a lot of people can't comprehend that just because the Starks are mostly all gone, there couldn't possibly be any more plotline left. I guess TV viewers thought this was about a battle between the Starks and the Lannisters. I guess in this way, they've portrayed very well the same naive sentiment of the book characters who pretty much think the same thing, but don't realise a vastly more sinister enemy is lurking.

One of my friends said he didn't want to watch it any more, because he wants battles, not betrayals. Welcome to the Game of Thrones dude.

LOL I read the books and still think it IS a battle between the Starks and the Lannisters. All the rest is much smaller than that

From now on little kids who don't behave will be told this:

"Everytime a child is rude to her Mum and Dad (or dont finish their food), A STARK DIES".

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Can't imagine GoT returns to HBO next year with the same level of viewership.

Well-balanced people don't watch a drama series and become invested in (reasonably) decent and good characters over three seasons, only to watch them murdered in a ghastly way and without any impending justice being done, and say, "Ah, that was satisfying."

Sopranos saw a big spike in ratings coming into season 3 after they killed off a character at the end of season 2. Even if there is a drop I suspect some people will come rushing back once they start hearing about the Lannister implosions that starts to happen, Joffrey, Tywin, Cersei mentally, Jaime basically quitting the family, it is a mess. The Lannisters are in far worse shape than the Starks by the end of book 5.

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My Unsullied friend was not happy. Was really super uncomfortable with Talisa's pregnant stabbing and was furious when I told him it didn't happen in the books. I've told him previously that Dany is still alive by the end of the serious so far (to help him cope with Ned's death.). So today I told him Season 4 would provide vengeance and not nearly so much fave character murdering. I'm not sure how he feels about Ygritte or Shae but other than that it's true.

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Full disclosure:

I am not usually an overly emotional person, but I do have a fair amount of empathy for my fellow man.

My wife (Unsullied) took a couple of days to watch the show, but when she did, I let her watch it in peace.

Later, she told me that she cried when Talisa and here baby died, and that she would no longer be watching the show with me.

I attempted to console her, by telling her that all readers pretty much felt the same way when we read the Red Wedding, but give it a few days/weeks/months, to recover. That was a lie. Noone I know has recovered from reading the Red Wedding.

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My Unsullied friend was not happy. Was really super uncomfortable with Talisa's pregnant stabbing and was furious when I told him it didn't happen in the books. I've told him previously that Dany is still alive by the end of the serious so far (to help him cope with Ned's death.). So today I told him Season 4 would provide vengeance and not nearly so much fave character murdering. I'm not sure how he feels about Ygritte or Shae but other than that it's true.

I told my wife the same thing about Talisa.

Funny how we as readers of the book are consoling the Unsullied, when we, by and large, just had to deal with all this grief in muted silence.

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Funny how we as readers of the book are consoling the Unsullied, when we, by and large, just had to deal with all this grief in muted silence.

I think that [much delayed] sharing of the pain is why we are interested in others' reactions and having it finally be something we can share with people close to us.

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Exactly. One of my friends who want to stop watching the show said to me "If I want to see how much cruel and evil people can be all I have to do is read a newspaper or something. The difference is that at least on the newspaper I can find good news too."

That's interesting. Many use TV and movies as a means of escaping their harsh, unforgiving realities. Good luck finding such an escape in ASOIAF.

I've been wondering all along whether this scene would be too divisive. I guess we won't have to wait very long to find out.

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That's interesting. Many use TV and movies as a means of escaping their harsh, unforgiving realities. Good luck finding such an escape in ASOIAF.

It's Utopian vs. Dystopian theory.

We either watch happy stuff to escape our lives, or we watch sad stuff to make our lives seem better.

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I think it's fair to say how Episode 10 handles things will give us an insight: give a hint of future justice and these non-reader viewers who are sympathetic to the Starks likely will come back. Rub their nose in it (e.g., show Joffrey cackling over the Grey Wind/Robb mutilation) and I suspect some of them are gone for good.

Well, assuming that the showrunners anticipated the reaction to the episode -- and I believe they probably did -- I suspect we'll get the former rather than the latter. I'd hope that would include Stoneheart, but at least, a speech (looks like from Tyrion) about how the North will get it's revenge, violation of guest right, etc. etc. etc.. Some acknowledgment that the RW was a very, very bad thing even in Westeros, which is something readers always knew.

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People seem to really look forward to the Arya/Hound travels. Seems like the Hound has finally gained a lot of fans this season after Lord Twatbeard took all his good lines in the first two seasons.

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I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but here it goes. My brother's wife is currently pregnant and she's having their baby in a couple of months. They are both fans of the show, but they haven't been able to see the last episode yet. They haven't read the books and are totally unprepared for what is about to happen. My question is this: should i warn her against seeing this episode? It has some extremely brutal and shocking scenes, including a pregnant woman getting stabbed in the stomach. What do you guys think? Thanks in advance!

My brother was in this situation as he (a book reader) did decide to warn his prenant wife (non book reader) about the red wedding and let her choose whether to watch it or wait for a description from him. He said she chose not to watch it and he was glad she didn't as the Talisa stabbing is quite brutal.

As another poster said, it's really about how emotional of a soul is she?

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Exactly. One of my friends who want to stop watching the show said to me "If I want to see how much cruel and evil people can be all I have to do is read a newspaper or something. The difference is that at least on the newspaper I can find good news too."

That's the thing. When you read the newspaper you don't see those people. Besides, you never knew them, much less have invested time or even projected emotions on them. Some people are just too uncomfortable witnessing suffering first hand, even if it's fiction and what they are witnessing is a TV show. I personally don't share that, but I can see where some come from.

I just talked to my mother. She was quite less shocked than I imagined, although she had the feeling that something bad was going to happen during the wedding and the events of course surpased her expectations. But shocked as not wanting to watch it again, not at all! In fact, she was going to watch it again tonight (and was eager to do so) because she 'wanted to pay more attention to the details'. She was baffled by Roose, though. She didn't see that coming. What she did expect was Jon abandoning Ygritte. Now she thinks all hopes for the Starks rely on Arya. And has waaay too high hopes for Daenerys... and would love to have a dragon herself :lol:

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My brother was in this situation as he (a book reader) did decide to warn his prenant wife (non book reader) about the red wedding and let her choose whether to watch it or wait for a description from him. He said she chose not to watch it and he was glad she didn't as the Talisa stabbing is quite brutal.

As another poster said, it's really about how emotional of a soul is she?

She is certainly more emotional now that she's pregnant. :P

I'm probably going to warn her.

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i just warned my unsullied friend that this episode is epic and that we shouldn't watch it with another friend who did not see anything before for MAJOR SPOILERS content. After a bit of resistance I won...

Now I just received a loosely parapharsed "You were right, it was f***ing epic"

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Anyway I guess the Ep 10 will contain some stuff to sweeten the pot for Stark fans - Hound + Arya; Maybe Sansa showing finally some wit (if applicable) when being taunted by Joffrey, and most of all Jon Snow Doin' the Right Thing.

Plus ample female nudity to fulfill the quota ;)

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