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[book spoilers]What your non-reader friends/family thought and their predictions.

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I'm surprised so many people are being hard on Jon. He's a loyal crow, we all know it, show watcher and book reader alike. Doesn't matter that he loves her, he's been raised by a Stark and a Tully - honor and duty hold more weight with him than love.

Well, then TV!Robb obviosly never understood what being raised by a Stark and Tully means lol

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My friend is convinced that Dany's setting off for Westeros by the Season finale. Sigh.

May I ask why? She clearly refuse to take the ships and gold and decided to stay and free the slaves. There was nothing the last episodes or the preview for ep10 that suggest that?

If you're someone who watches tv because it's an escape, because the plotlines never go outside of your comfort zone, or because you need a main character to support wholeheartedly and be assured they will always win; Game of Thrones is not made for you.

In fact, you should have realized this after good old Ned lost his head, that really sets the tone for the whole series to follow.

However, if you are someone who enjoys a story where the lines between good and evil are not always clear, with characters you may hate at first then slowly begin to love, with unpredictable plots twists despite hints being dropped constantly for the perceptive (this series is made for rewatching/rereading for all the information to be found between the lines); Game of Thrones was made for you.

For me, it's not about the destination, I'm just enjoying the ride.

I couldn't agree more :agree:

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I read the first three books on a friends recomendation in 2001 shortly after book three was released and then did the long wait for book four in 2005 and book five in 2011. During that time I have convinced a few friends to read the books too, which is rewarding since there is so much to discuss. I talked several more friends and co-workers into watching the series and it has been interesting seeing the various reactions from people. Whenever someone I know starts to read or watch Game of Thrones I stress that an unusual characteristic of these stories is that no character is safe from the author. The Red Wedding has really impacted all of the Unsullied I know who have been watching the show and one of them is saying that she is done and won't watch any more episodes because for her all of the characters that GRRM developed and made her care about are dead and all that is left is assholes or characters that don't have enough invested in them for her to care about. I guess we'll see next year how many people claiming that they are done with the show actually stick with that decision. I think I convinced my friend to watch the next episode because it is the only one left to wrap up the season I'll find out next week I guess.

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After watching the scene, and seeing all the gifs on tumblr, my friend told me she thinks Talisa more looks like she's gotten something spilled on her than stabbed, from the way she reacts. (She's never found her to be a very good actress. Which I'm glad since that makes us good friends to be of the same opinion lol.) I hadn't thought about it like that but her saying that I found extremely funny. She was definitely more upset over Catelyn, Robb, and Grey Wind and has never cared for her character.

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I'm surprised so many people are being hard on Jon. He's a loyal crow, we all know it, show watcher and book reader alike. Doesn't matter that he loves her, he's been raised by a Stark and a Tully - honor and duty hold more weight with him than love.

I am very, very surprised too. My friend even suggested that he "took her with him to the Wall, and she could be like a heroin" :eek: I'm guessing he said in the anger of the moment and didn't really think it(now he's rooting for the "flee across the Narrow Sea" plan) because then it would mean he hasn't understood a thing about the Watch, the wildling, Jon or Ygritte.

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My boyfriend was actually more upset about Jon leaving Ygritte than the Red Wedding! I was almost appalled, but kind of expecting it since he had no investment in the storyline (and when it all comes down to it ... Robb does unfortunately put himself in the position to be betrayed so horrifically.) With that said ... my coworkers who watch the show are not in the "I'm never watching again!" camp. They were shocked, but in a good way, as they can appreciate a show that deviates from expectations. They're very excited to find out what happens next week and both talked about reading the books after this season concludes.

Yeah I would say that Jon lost a few fans last episode.

This guy sums up his frustration with Jon, the way he says it is hilarious.

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Well, then TV!Robb obviosly never understood what being raised by a Stark and Tully means lol

He never did, even in the books. Jon is more Ned's son than Robb, he chooses duty over pretty much everything.

Jon Snow was NEVER raised by a Tully. *shakes head*

Nonsense, Catelyn hated him but there's no doubt she was very influencial. No way he grew up around her and her children and took nothing from it.

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I think it was implied by whoever posted that. (wasn't me anyway) I don't think juxtaposing mediocre battle sequences against "excellent" betrayal sequences is a proper comparison as to which type of sequence holds more or less intrinsic value.

I question HBO viewer loyalty as well. It's a pretty nasty kick in the balls to be fair to them. I can understand their outrage, though I didn't expect so much of it. Twitter is raging with people allegedly canceling their HBO subscriptions, cursing GRRM's name, and saying they are "DONE" with Game of Thrones.

Simple thing is, people want justice. There's enough injustice in reality, there's no need to sit through it every Sunday night. As far as we know, nothing on the scale of the Red Wedding will happen again, but I wouldn't be surprised if Martin (attempting to be shocking and edgy) did the same shit again just to get a reaction. I don't blame people at all for not wanting to be part of that.

Tyrion, Arya, and Dany are still alive and well. I kind of hate to see what will happen to them in the last book of the series.

Exactly. One of my friends who want to stop watching the show said to me "If I want to see how much cruel and evil people can be all I have to do is read a newspaper or something. The difference is that at least on the newspaper I can find good news too."

Quite so. This story is excessively cruel and hopeless.

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It's Utopian vs. Dystopian theory.

We either watch happy stuff to escape our lives, or we watch sad stuff to make our lives seem better.

Watched with my unsullied bf.

I had told him I was very excited to watch this episode. I'd told him it was a scene that made the show people originally want to adapt the books to tv. So he started guessing, "Is it the dragons? It's the dragons, isn't it? I bet there's a big battle scene with the dragons!"

With about 20 minutes left to go, he said, "Is anything going to happen in this episode? I thought you said this episode was a big deal."

Then the big door closed and Catelyn looked up to the musicians on the balcony.

Bf says "Uh oh. Why are they playing the Lannister song?"

Then, "It's a hit! It's a mob hit!!!"

Then, "Who is that dog?" (Meaning Grey Wind, not Sandor)

And when Catelyn held the knife to Mrs Frey's throat, "Oh, he doesn't care about his wife!"

And he actually leaned in towards the TV during the entire scene. I think at the very end he said, "Oh. Brutal." Which is a huge reaction for him, because he rarely gets emotional about television shows. I think he also said, "So that's it? The Starks are pretty much wiped out?" He also wanted to know if Edmure was killed. And he wanted to know if there are going to be more scenes with Arya and Sandor because, "those two are really funny together."

Of course after credits rolled, it was hard for him to get a word in, because I was too busy shrieking, "Do you have ANY IDEA how hard it was for me not to give any spoilers for THREE YEARS?!!!!"

LOL. Tell me about it.

I don't think it's the same actually. Those kind of shows are like CSI with the 'only' difference that those are stories about real people. You can feel for the victim, get moved by those stories but you already know that it won't end well. You know what you are watching. GOT, instead, catches a lot of people off guard and some doesn't like it.

This 'gritty realism' is just not eveyone's cup of tea and I really can't blame who want to stop watching.

It is gritty, but it's not realistic. You have people commiting terrible betrayals for story purposes. Betrayals that make no sense.

Yeah. He was really, REALLY invested in Robb's arc. I almost feel guility maybe I should have warned him. :ohwell:

Anyway I talked today with the other one in my group of viewers who want to quit and for him it's not a matter of being unable to accept a story that is realistic ( «it is realistic only when it suits him» ) for him what GRRM did it's more a matter of « trying to be unpredictable at any cost and lacking ideas for doing it so let's kill Tom, Dick and Harry».

He never expected , after Ned's death, a typical journey for Robb and saw potential in his character and his plot « the author really could have done something different with him.. alive » but what really made him decide to stop watching is what happen next ( after the episode he read the summeries of the last two books) « It's like a very long and repetitive essay on "how to ruining your own life, the art of backstabbing, 100 reasons why being honorable sucks" What's the point? I'm not going to sit there watching people I really don't care about hurting themselves and wandering around waiting for winter to finally come».

I was going to ask if you guys have read the books, but since you're posting in this thread, I assume you know most of the spoilers anyway. Do things like Lady Stoneheart, or what happens in the rest of A Storm of Swords, not really matter to you?

I mean, I could understand quitting after next season -- I really could. But there is definitely some justice meted out next season.

Revenge is not justice. Nothing can undo what has been done.

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LOL. Tell me about it.

It is gritty, but it's not realistic. You have people commiting terrible betrayals for story purposes. Betrayals that make no sense.

Revenge is not justice. Nothing can undo what has been done.

Hello everyone, I have been a lurker for a while and this is my first post. I have been very intrigued with the reactions to the RW episode, and in particular to the comments like the ones above, that GRRM has been killing off his main characters too frequently, for simple shock value, and that it is not realistic. Well, GRRM is supposed to have used the War of the Roses for his inspiration and if you look at the history of this period, you will see that the monarchs and their heirs, and their various powerful allies and spouses lead an incredibly precarious existence and are all too frequently betrayed, usurped, imprisoned, disinherited, and murdered. The real battle for the throne was never a war between the 'good' guys and the 'bad' guys, but an internecine power struggle between interrelated factions who all believed they had the legitimate right to the throne, and would do whatever it took to acquire it.

GRRM has stated in interviews that he wanted his books to eschew conventional fantasy storytelling and reflect a historical realism, which is what makes his books so exceptional in their subversion of the genre. But I guess many people who have been watching GofT haven't quite realised until now (the hard way!) that they are not watching a conventional drama with recognisable plotlines and stereotypical one dimensional characters, but an epic saga with myriad characters of varying complexities and competing agendas, who exist in a world where there can be only two outcomes: victory, or death.

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It is gritty, but it's not realistic. You have people commiting terrible betrayals for story purposes. Betrayals that make no sense.

Which betrayals don't make sense to you?

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I think what confuses me and bothers me is the idea that the destination is hopeless. We don't know what the actual destination of the narrative is. We're still several books away from that. Book readers and show watchers alike might be able to speculate on that point but we don't actually know. The Red Wedding is in the middle of the narrative, the point at which in even a traditional tale the lives of the protagonists would be getting more complicated. Yes it comes at the end of the season in the show but no one thinks this is the end of the series. So why are we treating this as if it tells us how the story is going to end?

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I'm disappointed over my unsullied friends reactions. They hardly reacted at all, it was more like ""Hey - what a twist!" and they find it to be good tv and entertainment.

Then they said that they now root for Khaleesi since all the Starks are dead (apparently they can't count) and expect her to set sail and cross the sea in the next episode, since everything is going soooooo smooth for the dragon queen.

I smiled and said nothing.

Sweet summer children.

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I would not say the destination is hopeless. It's easy to feel that way given our last episode ended on such a hopeless note. But let's examine season 1 for a moment: Ned Stark, the titular character of the first season, dies because of the whim of a vindictive child-King. What happens the next episode? Dany births dragons back into the world. We have some great moments to look forward to in season 4, and potentially in the next episode as well. There are good moments and bad moments. There are really, really bad moments but there are still plenty of really, really good moments to look forward to as well. With all the tragedy in the series, it makes those few sprinkled moments of happiness all the better because we know how precious and rare they can be.

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My best non reading friend was pissed that Talysa wasn't a spy.

He got more emotive about the show makers using stupid red herrings like her letters in valyrian than the whole RW strangely.

Another, the main Robb fan I know, announced he now root for Tyrion, now the only hero of the serie for him (he has somehow convinced himself that Tyrion will be converted to wolfism by Sansa and avenge Robb with the help of Jaime and Brienne).

My sister was disgusted by the brutality of the murders and now forbid her 13 years old son to continue to watch the serie.

Only one in 5 or 6 was really surprised by Robb's death, but most were still shocked with how it happened.

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My mum knew it was coming the moment Walder Frey said "let the wine flow!" Shes a sharp one, she is.

Lucky Dad, lucky you.

Gotta respect a person with instincts like that

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