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Mr Smith

(Book Spoilers) So does this confirm....

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Nope, Varamyr actually wargs Thistle as well. He fails in taking over control, but he CAN warg a human. And to be honest, he failed cause Thistle resisted, and I doubt Hodor is a really strongminded person to resist this kind of thing. I'm sure Varamyr could have warged Hodor too

Sorry, I guess my use of three superlatives weren't enough to get across the sarcasm in text and the implication that the show is different(see show-Jojen telling Bran that he's the only person anywhere that can warg a human) from the books and doesn't really prove anything.

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I think it was a way of doing away with that theory once and for all, what with the graphic belly-stabbing and all that.

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Probably, I can't see them changing something that drastically. An heir is too important to kill off.

However, I'm curious about the Will that never happened and Jon being named Heir? Does this reveal the will has no importance to the story?

I'm also wondering about this. I was waiting for Robb to speak to his mum about it but given that Talisa revealed that she's pregnant, he never thought about naming another heir in case something happens. It's a problem for me that he didn't name Jon his heir (and that he also didn't legitimize Jon) because you know the ASOIAF app? The one that's apparently approved by GRRM? It says that Jon is Robb's heir. How the hell now are they going to establish that in the TV series when they already killed off only guy who made Jon his heir? There's a big hole and it's staring at me and it really bothers me.

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I still think she is a Lannister spy. :bang:

What about the Blackfish theories? I was sure he'd die with the rest and take the part of both Small/Jon Umber with the table. Now what?

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Actually, when Robb married Talisa in the series, and she got pregnant, I was under the delusion, that Talisa and baby would flee to Volantis (hence the constant name-dropping), and that meant that the real Jeyne (and baby) had also been shipped off to Essos seeing as there's a family connection via the grandmother (?). Glad that's all off the table now. But even though it was an added bit, the stabbing of Talisa's and her unborn child was the single most gruesome detail of the Red Wedding on screen. In terms of shock value, the scene totally delivered for me.

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I still think she is a Lannister spy. :bang:

What about the Blackfish theories? I was sure he'd die with the rest and take the part of both Small/Jon Umber with the table. Now what?

We'll find out the Blackfish escaped. They were never going to cast the actor and have him in a handful of episodes just to kill him off at the RW, especially since he's still alive in the books.

Talisa was not a spy, of course people can feel free to make up more imaginary back theory to support their theory if they want, no one can stop them, but the fact that she was killed and there was no reveal of her being a spy is very, very strong evidence she wasn't a spy. Either they threw in the weird looks as a red herring or she's just a bad actress.

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I doubt Robb's (im)possible son will have any impact on the show.

I'm sure the show will end long before any Stark is is lord of anything. except for maybe Jon.

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Maybe there's going to be a flashback to before the RW where Robb does name Jon heir? Adding it to the previous episode would have announced too much to Unsullied.

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I have given up trying to predict anything about 'the future' in books or tv, but my sense from the book was that there was still a possibility, though extremely remote that Jeyne could be. The books have seemed to pole vault ahead to other major events, but of course that doesn't rule it out completely.

The tv series varies so much from the books, but is the thinking that at least the episode that GRRM writes each season is true to the book? I guess it would have to be.

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I think all that it "confirms" is that if Jeyne had a baby it isn't going to be on the iron throne at the end of the story. It doesn't preclude the baby from existing and being killed, or playing a role that doesn't change the ultimate end story, that D&D decided to cut or alter. Talisa's death doesn't tell us that Jeyne is going to die. Talisa being pregnant doesn't mean that Jeyne actually was pregnant. There too many changes in the story to say that they mean very much to what will happen in the future books.

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I think all that it "confirms" is that if Jeyne had a baby it isn't going to be on the iron throne at the end of the story. It doesn't preclude the baby from existing and being killed, or playing a role that doesn't change the ultimate end story, that D&D decided to cut or alter. Talisa's death doesn't tell us that Jeyne is going to die. Talisa being pregnant doesn't mean that Jeyne actually was pregnant. There too many changes in the story to say that they mean very much to what will happen in the future books.

I really don't think so.

Anything about Robb Stark's heir would be a major plot line in the books and would be a huge divergence no matter what happened.

The most obvious answer is that Jeyne Westerling is not going to do anything significant in the future and may not even appear again, which is why they were able to completely change her character and get away with it, because it ends up the same place: Robb's wife plays no future role in the series on any level.

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Well, I never thought that Jeyne's possible pregnancy would be that important to the books (justregarding the Black Fish). She won't play a major role at the books, and since imo we won't see the future, it doesn't really matters if Robb's son turns to be Winterfell's heir or not.

But, as I said, she can still be pregnant.

So, summarizing my opinion: It does not prove she's not pregnant, but it gives 99,9999% of chance that she won't play a major role at TWoW and/or ADoS.

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I really don't think so.

Anything about Robb Stark's heir would be a major plot line in the books and would be a huge divergence no matter what happened.

The most obvious answer is that Jeyne Westerling is not going to do anything significant in the future and may not even appear again, which is why they were able to completely change her character and get away with it, because it ends up the same place: Robb's wife plays no future role in the series on any level.

All of Dany's season 2 story line was a huge plot divergence, and it's likely they will do alot more in the future. Especially if they go thru with their plan to make books 4 and 5 into one season, which would require cutting huge chunks of content.

http://io9.com/game-of-thrones-will-end-with-season-7-according-to-pr-508275905

If Jeyne had a baby, it just means that the plot didn't ultimately matter to the end of the whole story. Which makes sense considering 2 more books should cover 2-4 more years of time for the characters, making Robb's heir as a 2-4 year old kid would be a pretty uncompelling choice to "win" the game of thrones, even if GRRM decided to make some compelling sub plots around the heir's existence.

It's just kind of contradictory to me, to say that pregnant Talisa's death means no chance there was a baby, when by that logic, Talisa being pregnant should mean that Jeyne was pregnant. Not that I really am a proponent of Jeyne being pregnant in the first place, but so many character's and story lines have been significantly altered that I don't really think it matters much as "proof" of anything.

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It doesn't prove Jeyne wasn't pregnant, but it proves that if the was, the child will not play an irreplaceable role in the books.

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All of Dany's season 2 story line was a huge plot divergence, and it's likely they will do alot more in the future. Especially if they go thru with their plan to make books 4 and 5 into one season, which would require cutting huge chunks of content.

http://io9.com/game-...to-pr-508275905

If Jeyne had a baby, it just means that the plot didn't ultimately matter to the end of the whole story. Which makes sense considering 2 more books should cover 2-4 more years of time for the characters, making Robb's heir as a 2-4 year old kid would be a pretty uncompelling choice to "win" the game of thrones, even if GRRM decided to make some compelling sub plots around the heir's existence.

It's just kind of contradictory to me, to say that pregnant Talisa's death means no chance there was a baby, when by that logic, Talisa being pregnant should mean that Jeyne was pregnant. Not that I really am a proponent of Jeyne being pregnant in the first place, but so many character's and story lines have been significantly altered that I don't really think it matters much as "proof" of anything.

Tailsa is dead so there is no heir=Jeyne is not pregnant so there is no heir. It ends up in the same place. But, I always knew once they changed her to "Talisa" that whatever happened to her character would never be enough to quell the Jeyne Westerling is pregnant theory.

I assume the people who clung to the idea that Rob Stark wasn't really dead in the books have been convinced, but maybe not.

As for Dany, nothing happened to her in Qarth of any significance except the House of the Undying, so there is no fundamental change, although I would say they should not have killed people in the show who are still alive in the books.

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It doesn't prove Jeyne wasn't pregnant, but it proves that if the was, the child will not play an irreplaceable role in the books.

Given the massive emotional fallout that is still ravaging my Facebook feed, I can only guess that had GRRM realised he could've added yet more emotional weight to the Red Wedding by stabbing a pregnant Jeyne, perhaps he may have written that in from the beginning.

Jeyne's character isn't needed beyond the Red Wedding and the TV show gives her a much more significant exit from the series.

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As for Dany, nothing happened to her in Qarth of any significance except the House of the Undying, so there is no fundamental change, although I would say they should not have killed people in the show who are still alive in the books.

Yeah, I don't get the Dany S2 thing. So they took an already boring storyline and made it even worse, but the end result was the same -- which is that basically nothing interesting happens and Dany gets a ship and decides to go somewhere other than Westeros to let her dragons grow.

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