[book spoilers] fat Merman

[scurvy]

I'm glad they at least put a Merman into the Red Wedding. Obviously Robb's whole host of bannermen have been eliminated from the story. I thought he might be the Smalljon at first, which would have been cool if they got him drunk and he snapped a neck or two before he was killed. But, when that Merman pin was gleaming so obviously, it made him Wendel. No lines, no name, but a big fat Merman pin and a reasonably fat, although not to fat to sit a horse Manderly.

[Jazzman]

I also thought about that. I really think it was a mistake to not show all or most of Robbs bannermen in some way. Now it feels like the unsullied dont undestand that many northern houses are very mad at Boltons & Freys

[Mulled Wino]

Agreed. How legit is the outrage going to feel? I mean House Manderly is just going to show up out of the blue as a major force??? So major that they did zilch in Robbs war.

its also going to be odd when we find out the Robett Glover is the HM and they hadn't properly introduced him. Although I suppose we still have time for that with Davos lol.

[Master Forel's Fro]

I also thought about that. I really think it was a mistake to not show all or most of Robbs bannermen in some way. Now it feels like the unsullied dont undestand that many northern houses are very mad at Boltons & Freys

It's like they didnt think it though when they decided not to cast ppl, all of a sudden you're suppose to have these families outraged about ppl we never met.

[Weeping Sore]

It's like they didnt think it though when they decided not to cast ppl, all of a sudden you're suppose to have these families outraged about ppl we never met.

It's more like they didn't want to pay real actors to be glorified extras this season only to have real parts in seasons 4 & 5. Remember Roose Bolton in Season 1? Yeah, me neither. It's like going on and on about the Reeds not showing up at Winterfell in season 2- they're saving money. Also, if you start someone with a tiny part they're less likely to stick around for when you really need them.

[GallowKnight]

He also had a really nifty mustache.

[MarieAntoinette]

They would have just needed one scene in which Robb is together with other Northmen holding a council. The probably did not want to cast the actors for some small part, but I think this would have made the RW episode even better.

[Gendels Children]

They would have just needed one scene in which Robb is together with other Northmen holding a council. The probably did not want to cast the actors for some small part, but I think this would have made the RW episode even better.

hmm maybe the council could have been about Robbs will.........

[Fightbringer]

i personally think that stark bannermen have been covered fairly well in all seasons (no greatjon was disappointing, but it was the actor who chose to go do something else) the featuring of wendel manderley, though probably not obvious at all to unsullied, was a nice nod to the books and to the future when unsullied can watch this episode again (if they ever want to, and go "ah, see there's that guy who they were talking about") they don't really need to show that the northern lords are outraged by this, that will probably be revealed next episode and even more in seasons to come, unsullied fans can wait until then

[protar]

I noticed him in the background but it's a shame he didn't actually get any speaking parts. He doesn't necessarily need one though. Do you think we'll get Davos' treating with Manderly next season so that they can move Theon's plot along as well and have Manderly at Jeyne/Ramsay's wedding in S4?

[The Fourth Head]

Yeah I was delighted to see that Manderly in the background- a little clue for the future.

However I must say in the books, it isn't obvious how much the Northerners hate the Boltons and Freys- at least, it wasn't to me anyway. Honestly, from the RW, to Davos arriving in White Harbour, there are no POV's in the north other than Reek n' Ramsey. There is nothing to indicate that the Starks still command loyalty, or that the rest knew exactly what happened at the RW and resent the Boltons and Freys. The Karstarks had already turned cloak on Robb and were probably happy that the Starks would no longer be in a position to threaten them/punish them.

Call me dumb, but until Lord Manderly does his big reveal to Davos, I totally bought into the idea that the North/Manderly had either been duped, repressed, cowed, or simply lacked any honour. We are meant to suspect for a short while that Manderly was a self-serving, cold hearted, craven, or stupid man, and that Davos was the only man clever enough, brave enough, or noble enough to call the Freys out on their lie, making the reveal of Manderly's motives when it comes all the sweeter.

The Freys serving up a dead son to Lord Manderly and lying about who killed him, and Lord Manderly apparently believing him is fine by me. We can get the expose' about the Manderly's history with the Starks and how "bravely" his son fought when talking to Davos. It doesn't need some Manderly talking 2 seasons earlier for people to buy into it. We know Robb had "bannermen" had "lords" and that we probably haven't met all of them. I'm fine with that.

A major criticism of the show is the size of the cast and the ability of non-book readers to keep track of all of them, and to care about them when there is a finite amount of air time to service them all. I would have liked to see a few lords and ser's introduced in a council discussing the Ruby Ford battle with Roose Bolton and Robb, but honestly, I don't think it really matters that much.

[Weeping Sore]

I noticed him in the background but it's a shame he didn't actually get any speaking parts. He doesn't necessarily need one though. Do you think we'll get Davos' treating with Manderly next season so that they can move Theon's plot along as well and have Manderly at Jeyne/Ramsay's wedding in S4?

The Ramsay wedding in S4? Seems a little soon. Definitely think they'll keep Davos/Manderly next season but I think Ramsay's wedding would be early S5 at the soonest.

[The Fourth Head]

The Ramsay wedding in S4? Seems a little soon. Definitely think they'll keep Davos/Manderly next season but I think Ramsay's wedding would be early S5 at the soonest.

Really? Davos/Manderly as soon as S4?

Jon needs to get back to CB, sweet talk a blacksmith before being trusted to help with the defence, then they need to do the battle for CB, then they need to do the battle at the wall, then they need Stannis to come up and fight the wildlings, win, deal with Mance, establish a foothold on the wall, in cooperation with the LC- (therefore, we need the whole election thing too which deserves a fair bit of coverage) plus interactions with Jon, Stannis and Melisandre before Stannis can think about sending Davos down to WH. That is a hell of a lot of story to get through. I think S5 at the earliest for Davos/Manderly

[The Fourth Head]

oops

[GallowKnight]

Really? Davos/Manderly as soon as S4?

Jon needs to get back to CB, sweet talk a blacksmith before being trusted to help with the defence, then they need to do the battle for CB, then they need to do the battle at the wall, then they need Stannis to come up and fight the wildlings, win, deal with Mance, establish a foothold on the wall, in cooperation with the LC- (therefore, we need the whole election thing too which deserves a fair bit of coverage) plus interactions with Jon, Stannis and Melisandre before Stannis can think about sending Davos down to WH. That is a hell of a lot of story to get through. I think S5 at the earliest for Davos/Manderly

Well the Davos / Manderly meeting falls into the time-frame of AFFC, so it is not impossible depending on whether or not bits of AFFC is incoprporated into S4 and when Stannis arrives at the wall.

[juanml82]

It's more like they didn't want to pay real actors to be glorified extras this season only to have real parts in seasons 4 & 5. Remember Roose Bolton in Season 1? Yeah, me neither. It's like going on and on about the Reeds not showing up at Winterfell in season 2- they're saving money. Also, if you start someone with a tiny part they're less likely to stick around for when you really need them.

They would have just needed one scene in which Robb is together with other Northmen holding a council. The probably did not want to cast the actors for some small part, but I think this would have made the RW episode even better.

They could just have the glorified extras during seasons 2 and 3 and kill them all in the RW and, for hostages, non recognizable men with blazons being captured. Maybe at the camp in the follow up during episode 10, have some Frey order his men to capture the bannermen. One or two seasons afterwards, they put a name to those captured lords.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Yeah I was delighted to see that Manderly in the background- a little clue for the future.

It's not just a clue -- it's a sign that D&D get the whole issue of what it means to have had those bannermen slaughtered and/or captured. They put him there for a reason.

However I must say in the books, it isn't obvious how much the Northerners hate the Boltons and Freys- at least, it wasn't to me anyway. Honestly, from the RW, to Davos arriving in White Harbour, there are no POV's in the north other than Reek n' Ramsey. There is nothing to indicate that the Starks still command loyalty, or that the rest knew exactly what happened at the RW and resent the Boltons and Freys. The Karstarks had already turned cloak on Robb and were probably happy that the Starks would no longer be in a position to threaten them/punish them.

Call me dumb, but until Lord Manderly does his big reveal to Davos, I totally bought into the idea that the North/Manderly had either been duped, repressed, cowed, or simply lacked any honour. We are meant to suspect for a short while that Manderly was a self-serving, cold hearted, craven, or stupid man, and that Davos was the only man clever enough, brave enough, or noble enough to call the Freys out on their lie, making the reveal of Manderly's motives when it comes all the sweeter.

My thoughts exactly. The truth about the RW was not common knowledge -- there was a Frey disinformation campaign that appeared, for a time, to be successful.

The writers clearly decided that the emotional impact of the RW was key, so they focused on a few personalities to emphasize that. I'd have liked to have seen at least a couple of the bannermen introduced, but that's nothing that can't be resolved in a conversation between Tyrion and Tywin, or between the Blackfish and someone else. Simply point out that it was not just Robb, but all his bannermen as well, and it will be the entire North pissed about this if word leaks out about what really happened.

The Freys serving up a dead son to Lord Manderly and lying about who killed him, and Lord Manderly apparently believing him is fine by me. We can get the expose' about the Manderly's history with the Starks and how "bravely" his son fought when talking to Davos. It doesn't need some Manderly talking 2 seasons earlier for people to buy into it. We know Robb had "bannermen" had "lords" and that we probably haven't met all of them. I'm fine with that.

Again, agree completely.

[Dove]

That Manderly dude was adorable, I loved his moustache. I wish they'd given him some lines or something, he looked pretty interesting. Then again, the episode was pretty crowded for time already.

[lostinwesteros]

I completely missed this!!! Will have to go back and rewatch it, but my question is how will he get away and 'live to tell the tale'? I thought that the only survivor was Blackfish and in the book it was because he stayed behind with Jeyne. I guess in tv version it will be because he went out to 'find a tree and take a piss', at least I assume they'll let him live since he plays a big part in things at Riverrun when Jaime goes there with his Lannister army, per daddy's orders. How would there have been any survivors at all? Though now that I think about it, Darcy Mormont showed up after Asha was taken prisoner by Stannis, and I thought she'd been at the RW, so now :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:

:dunno:

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

I completely missed this!!! Will have to go back and rewatch it, but my question is how will he get away and 'live to tell the tale'? I thought that the only survivor was Blackfish and in the book it was because he stayed behind with Jeyne. :dunno:

Not everyone was killed. Some of the bannermen were taken hostage. I'm not inclined to watch the whole thing again right now, but I don't think all the bannermen were clearly dead when Walder Frey held up his hand. Looks to me like some were still alive, if not standing.