(Book Spoilers) Rickon, the Umbers and the Greatjon

[I'll pay the iron price]

I cant speak for others but I always envisioned the last hearth as Hermitage castle in the Scottish borders

http://www.rampantscotland.com/castles/graphics2/hermitage_castle_borders6175a.jpg

[The hairy bear]

I don't think we'll see Osha and Rickon next season. They are already juggling with too many storylines.

I'm seeing a possibility, though. What if the Umbers substitute the Manderlys in the future Davos storyline? Stannis sends Davos to recruit the Umbers, Whoresbane is ruling Last Heart, he has been told that Robb warged into a wolf and killed his niece Greatjon at the Twins, captures Davos, and eventually, when the Lannisters release the Smalljon, he tells Davos that Rickon is at Skaagos (Osha fled there when it was no longer possible to conceal their presence in Last hearth from the Bolton spies).

What do you think? You save having to introduce the Manderlys and Wex (who wasn't with Theon during S2)

Someone at work (an unsullied, but she does review movies in her blog, so she keeps up with actor 'happenings') told me that the actor who played the Greatjon had one of his ears bitten (?) off but didn't know how and that that was why he left the show.

That actually happened this summer. So it's true, but it's not the cause of him leaving. And as DarkAndFullOfTurnips says, I doubt very much that we'll be seeing him again.

[Istakhr]

Exactly- wasn't it suggested by Luwin that they went to White Harbour in the books? Why Osha didn't go there and ended up going to Skagos is still unclear. I had assumed for 3 books that Rickon was probably with the Manderlys.

Still, it would be nice if they did go to the Last Hearth, for a while at least. It could serve a few purposes. It would keep Rickon in play for a little bit, it would allow them to illustrate the transfer of power from Stark to Bolton in the North, resulting in Rickon having to leave Last Hearth for his (and their) own safety, and it could provide an opportunity to explore the power of fear the Boltons instil relative to "love". It could also provide a few clues regarding if there is any truth behind the Great Northern conspiracy or not- we could even have Ramsey going hunting for the Stark boys, ending up at the Last Hearth, the Umbers denying they have him, Ramsey not believing them and threatening to bring an army up from the Dreadfort and to flay them all (a flayed man has no secrets!) before Osha decides to spare the Umbers and take Rickon on to Skagos.

Ramsey hunting Stark boys all over the North with "Reek" helping him could be thrilling stuff, add a bit of tension to Rickon's journey, and give Ramsey and Theon something to do. They could explore Theon battling his will power, and failing through fear and intimidation. It would be a great way to mirror the hunt Theon and "Reek" had for Stark boys in ACOK.

Plus, ever since "Boy" said the line "do I look like a fucking Umber" to you?!" I have wanted to see some more...

Ramsy also said something about hunting to Theon. It makes sense for him to at least try to hunt Rickon if he somehow hears something about his whereabouts.

A hunt can also serves to introduce some new northern lords (new Umbers) to viewers.

On top of everything else, since Ramsay has nothing to do next season but torture Theon and probably take a castle from Ironborn by using Theon, adding a hunt for Rickon subplot makes sense for all the characters involved in Northern plot.

[protar]

I don't see Rickon and Osha getting a full story arc. Maybe just a few episodes during the early season before they leave for Skaagos. Possibly incorporating Ramsay chasing them.

I'm hoping that Manderly will be introduced next season, and maybe if we see the last hearth we can get Mors and/or Hother Umber as well. It would be good to tie Theon, Rickon and Davos into one larger northern plot line.

[Istakhr]

I'm hoping that Manderly will be introduced next season, and maybe if we see the last hearth we can get Mors and/or Hother Umber as well. It would be good to tie Theon, Rickon and Davos into one larger northern plot line.

If they show Rickon and Ramsay hunting him next season, then there is no reason for showing Manderly next season.

I think it is more likely that Stannis will send Davos to Manderly at the end of S4 and we'll see him and Manderly meet in S5.

The only way I can see Manderly being in next season is if they have a Lady Hornwood subplot with Ramsay and Theon which I think is less likely than a hunting Rickon subplot.

[Lord Falcon]

I don't think we'll see Osha and Rickon next season. They are already juggling with too many storylines.

I'm seeing a possibility, though. What if the Umbers substitute the Manderlys in the future Davos storyline? Stannis sends Davos to recruit the Umbers, Whoresbane is ruling Last Heart, he has been told that Robb warged into a wolf and killed his niece Greatjon at the Twins, captures Davos, and eventually, when the Lannisters release the Smalljon, he tells Davos that Rickon is at Skaagos (Osha fled there when it was no longer possible to conceal their presence in Last hearth from the Bolton spies)

I don't know about the Umbers replacing the Manderlys since D&D made it so obvious that it was a Manderly sitting behind Cat and Robb during the wedding. You clearly saw the merman with the trident. It was an introduction of the Manderly's (albeit a very quick introduction). I hope we see White Harbor next season, something about that city has always made me giddy with excitement (perhaps its the Wolf Den?).

[stanniswillwin]

I think we will see more of rockin and dogs than in the book because GRRM really likes the actress

[Khal-a-bunga]

D&D have made it pretty clear that actors that make themselves unavailable and basically cause them to change and rewrite things for seasons are never invited back, unless they love them. I guess they got pissed at Mantle for not being available S2 (And look how pissed off the fans got that he wasn't in it), and when he became available, I guess they didn't want to pander to the artist so that people can up and leave and just come back when it was convenient for them.

This is pure conjecture on your part; which is another way of saying that you're making this up. Not trying to be a jerk, but scheduling conflicts happen all the time, and there's been absolutely no indication that there were any hard feelings in any case where an actor has had to leave. Conan Stevens (The Mountain) decided between the show and The Hobbit, and has previously stated that he'd be interested in returning for season three; Elyes Gabel (Rakharo) had been cast in the film World War Z, and ran into a scheduling conflict between the two projects due to the re-shoots the film went through; Clive Mantle (Greatjon Umber) ran into a similar issue, as he had scheduled himself into a theatrical production under the assumption that he would be working on Game of Thrones' second season during the same time period as the first season, apparently, which wasn't the case. I'd assume that he wasn't asked back for the third season as they'd already cast Clive Russel, who essentially ended up assimilating a lot of the elements of the Greatjon as a character.

So not only have they not "made it clear" that they get pissed when actors become unavailable for whatever reason, but they haven't given any indication of that at all. With everything else they've got to worry about, I highly doubt it bothers them when very small parts have to be written out. Again, not trying to be rude, but this happens a lot around here - people, using no evidence, make claims that they pass off as true.

[jarl the climber]

I think we will see more of rockin and dogs than in the book because GRRM really likes the actress

Yeah, I forget the actresses name but the Osha character has had some popularity on the TV show. We have no idea what her and Rickon were up to after the second book so it could be interesting to see their adventures. Hopefully they do not botch it like they did to a certian extent with Robbs story. It would be a good way to introduce some of the Northern families as they shelter Rickon from Boltons hunters.

[Jon Black]

The season 2 Blu Ray/DVDs have a play by play of the War of the Five Kings as show canon which mentions Great Jon:

His season 3 whereabouts are unknown but the show did make it seem like the majority of the northern force was at The Twins.

This leads me to believe they are gonna include the Great Jon/Umbers back in the story. If not why mention them in 'Rains...' and the DVD extra.

Although, as Xanderpanda says, they also made it seem like the entire Northern Army was at the Twins. I trust they'll resolve this. They kinda have to.

[Alistair's Pantaloons]

I do dread seeing Ian Whyte show up as the Mountain again , face plate closed or not!

Oh God yes. He sucks. Stevens was so much more threatening and cool-looking. They may as well cut the Mountain out if they're making him into a joke by casting Ian Whyte FFS.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

This is pure conjecture on your part; which is another way of saying that you're making this up. Not trying to be a jerk, but scheduling conflicts happen all the time, and there's been absolutely no indication that there were any hard feelings in any case where an actor has had to leave. Conan Stevens (The Mountain) decided between the show and The Hobbit, and has previously stated that he'd be interested in returning for season three; Elyes Gabel (Rakharo) had been cast in the film World War Z, and ran into a scheduling conflict between the two projects due to the re-shoots the film went through; Clive Mantle (Greatjon Umber) ran into a similar issue, as he had scheduled himself into a theatrical production under the assumption that he would be working on Game of Thrones' second season during the same time period as the first season, apparently, which wasn't the case. I'd assume that he wasn't asked back for the third season as they'd already cast Clive Russel, who essentially ended up assimilating a lot of the elements of the Greatjon as a character.

So not only have they not "made it clear" that they get pissed when actors become unavailable for whatever reason, but they haven't given any indication of that at all. With everything else they've got to worry about, I highly doubt it bothers them when very small parts have to be written out. Again, not trying to be rude, but this happens a lot around here - people, using no evidence, make claims that they pass off as true.

It's not pure conjecture. Watch the Emmy Panel. They quite clearly state it, so I'm sorry that you spent that time writing your post.

[briantw]

By the way, I don't think that, if we continue to follow Osha and Rickon, that we will actually see them make it to Last Hearth. My guess is that they hear about the Red Wedding (perhaps adapting that scene from the books where Bran and company meet the Northern man in the cave), decide that none of the Northern lords can be trusted, and she decides to head to Skaagos instead.

Again, that's assuming we continue to follow Osha and Rickon at all, which I tend to think we will just because why not? Following Osha next year would be a great way to inform the TV audience of what is going on in the North.

[Longspear Ryk]

theres no one way they would let natalia tena not be in it for a year

[ugashep]

I thought it was funny how fast Osha got the hell out of dodge when Bran suggested that she take Rickon. It was like she wanted to go ahead and get out of there before he changed his mind and insisted that she come north of the wall.

[StarkBlack21]

I still think they can have Greatjon back. this would be the perfect time to re-intro him. The audience is already familiar with him being a loyal Stark Bannerman. And one fo Robb's biggest supporters. What I'm worried about is that they are getting rid of Alister Thorne. Thorne was perfectly cast. I hope they bring him back.

[teemo]

Recognizing no bannermen in that room besides Wymen for half a second had a negative effect on me. The Greatjon imo was way too important to cut. They should have just recast. God.

I definitely think we'll continue to see a little of Osha and Rickon every now and then.

[Cas Stark]

Recognizing no bannermen in that room besides Wymen for half a second had a negative effect on me. The Greatjon imo was way too important to cut. They should have just recast. God.

I definitely think we'll continue to see a little of Osha and Rickon every now and then.

They should have sucked it up, whatever it was, and found way to get him back on the show.

[teemo]

They should have sucked it up, whatever it was, and found way to get him back on the show.

Yeah, anything but what they did, basically.

[Lord Elrosir]

I thought it was funny how fast Osha got the hell out of dodge when Bran suggested that she take Rickon. It was like she wanted to go ahead and get out of there before he changed his mind and insisted that she come north of the wall.

Lol, thats kinda funny. I think it was more because she knew wildlings were in the area and it would be safer to travel by night.