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[Pre-ADwD Spoilers] Jon 1


Ran

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I don't think that any of the the men who betrayed Mormont and deserted at Craster's Keep have tried to rejoin the Watch.

There is Sweet Donnel Hill however. He was part of Chett's conspiracy and has rejoined the Watch, and he seems to have very loosely associated himself with Jon. He was among the group of men who congratulated or bend the knee to Jon after he was chosen Lord Commander.

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There is Sweet Donnel Hill however. He was part of Chett's conspiracy and has rejoined the Watch, and he seems to have very loosely associated himself with Jon. He was among the group of men who congratulated or bend the knee to Jon after he was chosen Lord Commander.

I hope not! Lannister bastard = traitor would be perilously close to cardboard. Wouldn't surprise me if he turns out to be a red herring, though. Pyp could pull it off, though. After all, just because they used to be friendly in training doesn't mean that they are now friends for life. He and Grenn seem rather resentful of Jon's sudden abandonment of them, but Grenn couldn't carry out a subtrefuge. Pyp seems a bit more clever, though.

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Guest Other-in-law

Sweet Donnel Hill doesn't have to be a Lannister bastard though; he could be a Westerling or Crakehall or Yarwyk or Plumm or Farman or...any westerman bastard.

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I hope not! Lannister bastard = traitor would be perilously close to cardboard.

But he did already plan treason with Chett. He is already "cardboard" per your definition when his claim that he is a Lannister bastard were true.

Though in his defense it can also be said that he didn't join the traitors at Craster's.

Pyp could pull it off, though. After all, just because they used to be friendly in training doesn't mean that they are now friends for life. He and Grenn seem rather resentful of Jon's sudden abandonment of them, but Grenn couldn't carry out a subtrefuge. Pyp seems a bit more clever, though.

Just because Pyp feels neglected doesn't mean he would betray Jon though. He never struck me as the treasonous, corrupt type or as notably ambitious.

I think the story will rather move into the direction that one of Jon's newer "friends" will turn out to be a traitor and that his old friends will prove true and will come to his help.

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I think the story will rather move into the direction that one of Jon's newer "friends" will turn out to be a traitor and that his old friends will prove true and will come to his help.

I think I posted earlier in this thread there will be an assassination attempt on Jon, perhaps by disaffected members of the Nightwatch- Melisandre's words certainly sound like it, and the absence of Ghost and Jon's dislike of bodyguards are both definite hints.

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I think I posted earlier in this thread there will be an assassination attempt on Jon, perhaps by disaffected members of the Nightwatch- Melisandre's words certainly sound like it, and the absence of Ghost and Jon's dislike of bodyguards are both definite hints.

After reading sample chapter of Jon, I notice Edd, the guy who brought breakfast to Jon said few things that were bit suspicious. He told Jon never to trust a cook and said "they will prune you[jon] when you least expected. I maybe reading too deep on this but he also said that he wouldn't eat prunes himself and there was one time the cook[Hobb] chop the prunes and hide with a hen. I think breakfast Edd brought was poisoned and Jon may have saved his life by not eating the breakfast.

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After reading sample chapter of Jon, I notice Edd, the guy who brought breakfast to Jon said few things that were bit suspicious. He told Jon never to trust a cook and said "they will prune you[jon] when you least expected. I maybe reading too deep on this but he also said that he wouldn't eat prunes himself and there was one time the cook[Hobb] chop the prunes and hide with a hen. I think breakfast Edd brought was poisoned and Jon may have saved his life by not eating the breakfast.

Alternatively, he may have been joking, seeing how he's the comic relief character and everything. But poison prunes is plausible too...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Made a post somewhere on this forums about him before, but ah I think he's interesting so here I go:

I think Stannis is a pretty pitiful man - he has not learned how to deal with the world he lives in, the only thing he is focuses on is the unjustice done to him and how to set that to rights. Even though he apparently does not want his kingdom, what he DOES want is justice to be done to him. His whole life he's been living in some kind of jealousy, since he never really learned to express positive emotions. The positive things about him would be that he's just and dutiful (and, arguably, straight to the point). However he takes this longing for justice ( not only to himself but for the whole world) to the extreme, to a point of total rigidity, where nothing can make up for a deed but punishment or reward. He is harsh so nobody really loves him, which probably only worsened his bluntness and harshness - he knows he does not have to flatter because nobody likes him anyway, and flattering is in his eyes dishonest as well.

That teeth-clenching he does all the time (It's my first association with stannis) is also a prime example of his feeling of unjustice. Instead of enjoying the things he had he chose to only think of what he didn't have (even though he should have had that by rights). Stannis does not seem to enjoy living. And after all what is justice for but to create a better world for people to be happier in? Stannis takes it so far that justice becomes an empty and meaningless thing - justice should serve humankind, and not the other way round.

Of course, I'm not taking Melisandre in account there - part of the reason he wants his kingdom is because of the war for the dawn et cetera et cetera. Stannis does not seem like a man who would easily buy the message of the red faith, and especially not the fact that he's Azor Ahai reborn. It looks like he does have an ego after all - he feels he SHOULD be azor ahai reborn, cause he thinks he's the best man. Like Renly did. I don't think he would have believed Melisandre otherwise, even with all the funny little tricks she does.

He's a grey character- like all characters are in aSoIaF, which is part of what makes the books so awesome. I think his intentions are good, but I pity him for being born as he is. I pity him for being raised as he was, and treated by his brothers as he was. I pity him for choosing to live his life like this.

Edit: You might notice somewhat that structurizing my ideas isn't my strong point:P

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Skagos is as good a place as any for Osha and rickon to hide out I suppose. I recall a ship being washed up on the beaches of skagos while sam was sailing by on his way to braavos, might that be how they got there?

I really glad to see other supporters of Skagos theory for Rickon. :)

Yes Skagos if Osha and Rickon managed to get there would be probably a perfect place for them to hide. No or little rumors would get out of the island and no enemies would be able to reach them there. Skagosi are warlike people so Rickon could get allies there and emerge back in force. They also could raise a fierce warrior out of him.

And of course description fits for Skagos and “enormous goat†could be “unicorn†from tales. Shaggy was hunting some unusual beast for sure and we don’t know other place in the North where strange beasts could dwell other then Skagos.

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I really glad to see other supporters of Skagos theory for Rickon. :)

Yes Skagos if Osha and Rickon managed to get there would be probably a perfect place for them to hide. No or little rumors would get out of the island and no enemies would be able to reach them there. Skagosi are warlike people so Rickon could get allies there and emerge back in force. They also could raise a fierce warrior out of him.

And of course description fits for Skagos and “enormous goat†could be “unicorn†from tales. Shaggy was hunting some unusual beast for sure and we don’t know other place in the North where strange beasts could dwell other then Skagos.

Mezeh, I came to the Skagos theory independently of you, and I still think it's a strong possibility, but I think an alliance with Rickon is unlikely for the Skagosi who don't seem to have any great liking for other Northmen. On the other hand I can totally see GRRM overturning the sterotypes Northmen have of the Skagosi and making them a fierce, tribal people with complicated customs but welcoming nonetheless. If we do see Rickon anytime in the near future, it will be through the eyes of Davos Seaworth. I shudder to think what the Skagosi will do to him.

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Grinachu, I’m aware that you’ve come to the theory independently and value that.

You are right Skagosi are little liked by other northmen like others little too but Starks are slightly other matter and the “winter is comingâ€. Skagos is not far from the Wall and it was mentioned that Skagosi visit Eastwatch by Sea. So they will be aware of what happens on the Wall. Others are common foe and while I don’t thisnl that Skagosi would join Starks in their fight with other lords war with Others would be a very different matter.

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Do you think Jon and Melisandre will become real allies? I'm starting to like her a bit more.

What about Ser Godry? Seems like it would be a helluva fight.

i've always believed that mel is sincere in what she says & does. if she thinks she was wrong obout stannin being pwwp then she will side with jon (assuming she thinks he is). i can see mel & the new high septon being simlar char in the future. both doing really bad things in the name of what they believe is the "correct" bigger picture. they kind of fill the tywin void.

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