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Ran

[Pre-ADwD Spoilers] Jon 1

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No, its Ser G. Farring, I just couldn't remember the name off the top of my head. You'll see he's been pointed out by someone in the first page actually.

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From Kedlav:

Stannis wants the castles along the wall to give to his Lords to repay them for their loyalty, but Jon refuses to relinquish control of them. Stannis tells him if they are not populated by the end of the year he will take them with or without Jon's blessing.

Any idea's as to how Jon will populate them? I'm assuming Jon won't let Stannis take the castles of course.

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As promised, here is the Jon I summary I took from my notes. Good to see that there are no contradictions between kedlav, trey greyjoy, and myself, since we were all sitting together. BTW, sorry about the delay - my wife hid my notebook from me. :)

Jon is having one of his wolf dreams. Ghost can sense his siblings out in the wild. Knows that they are down to 4 now - 2 of them are dead. Ghost is out in the cold and snow and keeps hearing the word "snow" being shouted.

Eventually, Jon is wakened by Mormont's raven, who is shouting "snow."

Dolorous Edd walks into Jon's room and he talks about his dislike for prunes.

Jon's thoughts - Wildings from all over are drifting down to the wall, searching for safety. Stannis keeps them captive in "wilding pens". Stannis picks wildings from the stockades for the Red Woman to question.

Edd tells Jon that Stannis is waiting to see him, so Jon must get ready and go.

Jon is under the common misconception that Bran and Rickon are dead, but knows that their wolves are still alive, due to his wolf dreams. <opinion - could this lead to Jon knowing that Bran and Rickon are alive as well?>

As Jon is walking across the training yard to see Stannis, he notices that the knights stand in separate groups. Notes are sketchy and my memory is fuzzy here, but I think he saw that the Melissandre's men and Stannis' men did not mingle at all. This may be important.

One knight, a Ser Gaudry?, calls Jon "boy" and tells him that his Valaryian steel should be used for more than scratching his arse. He challenges Jon to fight him on the training fields, but Jon only shows him his back and keeps walking.

As Jon walks outside, he notices that the repair work on the wall continues. They are fixing the switchback stairway to the top, which is currently unusable. Right now the only way to the top is by using the winch to lift people and supplies up.

He meets up with Sam and asks him how his archery practice is coming. Sam complains that it causes blisters so it is not going well. But he mentions that he found a good book on archery….

Jon enters the room where Stannis and Melissandre await him. Stannis looks stiff, uncomfortable, with pale, leather-like skin. Stannis is angry about a parchment he received from Liara? Mormont (a 10 year old girl) stating that the Mormonts know and will support no other other than a Stark. Stannis claims that this child "spit on me." He broods that all other Northern lords shun him besides Karhold, who have pledged support for Stannis.

Stannis, obviously in need of money to finance his efforts asks Jon how much he has with the Night's Watch. Jon states that have none save only turnips. He then tells Stannis that if he needs money, then try to gain the support of White Harbor - they are loaded.

Stannis intends to keep Mance's baby as heir to the wildings and kill Mance. He wants to use the baby to win their support. Jon tries to convince him that the wildings will only follow Mance and they recognize no heirs. Stannis argues that by law, Mance's life is forfeit on many levels - he is a deserter from the Wall, for one. He intends to kill Mance as that is what the law and justice demands. He says he will burn him to make an example of him. <Stannis' stubborn adherence to the "law" really shone in this passage>

Stannis then tells Jon he wants to garrison the empty castles along the wall with his men. Argues that Jon is only using 3 of them, so Jon should permit him the rest. He also wants to grant lands to his lords and knights and Rattleshirt and Magnar of Thenn.

Jon tells Stannis that he intends to send Gilly and her boy away. Stannis questions this, since Mance's son uses Gilly as a milk-mother. Jon says there is no need for them here, that her boy is the product of her father, Craster. Stannis then quips "her father is her boy's father as well? Then send them away, for this is not King's Landing."

Jon then denies the Wall's castles to Stannis. He tells him that giving away castles and lands to Southern lords and knights will not win support from any northerners. Stannis is angered, and tells Jon that he made him Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, so he could make another. He then tells Jon he intends to grant Winterfell to Arnolf Karstark, since he has Stark blood and plenty of heirs. It was around this time that Stannis, in his anger, drew Lightbringer, and light rippled up the blade in red, yellow, and orange hues. <this seemed important to me, I'm fuzzy on Lightbringer's characteristics, but could this be an indicator (or one of many indicators) the sword is NOT Lightbringer?>

Stannis then gives Jon 1 year to man the empty castles, or Stannis will take them with or without Jon's permission.

Jon is then walked out by Melissandre. She tells Jon that Stannis is growing fond of him. Jon says "I can tell, he only threatened to behead me twice." Melissandre then tells Jon to fear his silence, not his words.

Melissandre then goes on to tell Jon that she sees him in her flames a lot now. Jon gives her a wary look. She then tells him that even though the gods are perfect, their prophets are not, so sometimes signs are misinterpreted. <perhaps this is an indication that her belief in Stannis is failing, and that now she thinks Jon may be the one. Another possibility is perhaps the flames indicate Jon is a Targaryen?> She then talks about other things - how she is searching for Tormund, and that she knows Jon has a lot of enemies. Jon makes a comment that he is very aware he has enemies. She then tells him to keep his wolf close, and to fear the enemies that smile at him. The chapter closes with Melissandre saying "You know nothing, Jon Snow."

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Jon's thoughts - Wildings from all over are drifting down to the wall, searching for safety. Stannis keeps them captive in "wilding pens". Stannis picks wildings from the stockades for the Red Woman to question.

As Jon is walking across the training yard to see Stannis, he notices that the knights stand in separate groups. Notes are sketchy and my memory is fuzzy here, but I think he saw that the Melissandre's men and Stannis' men did not mingle at all. This may be important.

Jon enters the room where Stannis and Melissandre await him. Stannis looks stiff, uncomfortable, with pale, leather-like skin. Stannis is angry about a parchment he received from Liara? Mormont (a 10 year old girl) stating that the Mormonts know and will support no other other than a Stark. Stannis claims that this child "spit on me." He broods that all other Northern lords shun him besides Karhold, who have pledged support for Stannis.

Stannis intends to keep Mance's baby as heir to the wildings and kill Mance. He wants to use the baby to win their support. Jon tries to convince him that the wildings will only follow Mance and they recognize no heirs. Stannis argues that by law, Mance's life is forfeit on many levels - he is a deserter from the Wall, for one. He intends to kill Mance as that is what the law and justice demands. He says he will burn him to make an example of him. <Stannis' stubborn adherence to the "law" really shone in this passage>

Stannis then tells Jon he wants to garrison the empty castles along the wall with his men. Argues that Jon is only using 3 of them, so Jon should permit him the rest. He also wants to grant lands to his lords and knights and Rattleshirt and Magnar of Thenn.

Jon then denies the Wall's castles to Stannis. He tells him that giving away castles and lands to Southern lords and knights will not win support from any northerners. Stannis is angered, and tells Jon that he made him Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, so he could make another. He then tells Jon he intends to grant Winterfell to Arnolf Karstark, since he has Stark blood and plenty of heirs. It was around this time that Stannis, in his anger, drew Lightbringer, and light rippled up the blade in red, yellow, and orange hues. <this seemed important to me, I'm fuzzy on Lightbringer's characteristics, but could this be an indicator (or one of many indicators) the sword is NOT Lightbringer?>

Stannis then gives Jon 1 year to man the empty castles, or Stannis will take them with or without Jon's permission.

I wonder what they hope Mel's qustioning will yield? Tormunds location or is she looking for suitable converts?

Do we hear who Stannis men are? Looking at ASoS and AFFC there are mostly Queens men with Stannis at Castle Black.

There is a Lyra Mormont mentioned in the AFFC appendix (along with her sisters Alysanne,Jorelle and Lyanna). Is this the Heir speaking?

Stannis sure seem high on others following the law while he can do pretty much anything. The more I re-read the passages with Stannis the more I dislike him. The treatment of Rattleshirt and the Magnar of Thenn is a good exemple of this.

I think it's certain that it's not Lightbringer that Stannis carries. Aemon is blind and he still recognize that it's fake...

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These are minor additions, since the other guys got most of the details.

When Ghost is out sniffing around and thinking of his siblings, as far as I can remember he knows what they are doing. That is, one of them is feasting on some animal. He thinks about Nymeria, and how she is surrounded by her smaller grey cousins, and has been eating well, even sometimes feeding on humans.

When Jon is walking across the practise grounds to meet with Stannis and the Southron knight confronts him, he calls out to get his attention, "Boy!" Jon hears, doesn't look around but keeps walking. The guy yells a few other things, but Jon doesn't turn until the guy addresses him by his title, saying "Hey, Lord Commander!"

Jon also debates about Stannis' letter, and whether or not he should sign it. He thinks that on the one hand the NW is far too weak to do any good, and they need help. But then he wonders if he wants to be known as the Lord Commander who gave away the wall and sold out the NW.

As for Stannis' comments on Mance, I got the impression that Stannis knows that Mance is invaluable, both for his knowledge of the UberNorth and because of his excellant leadership skills. Unfortunately, because of his morals, he has to have Mance executed. He sounds almost resigned to this fact, not especially happy about it. Later, when Jon mentions that Davos is lowborn and a thief at that, Stannis excuses it by mumbling about how he cut off Davos' fingers as punishment.

When Stannis talks about giving Winterfell to the Karstarks and how all of the Northern lords are ignoring his letters (he sent out a crapload of birds, but only two lords have replied, neither of them positively), Jon thinks about how it would be if there were truly a lord of Winnterfell, i.e. Jon Snow. If he had accepted the lordship of Winterfell, would all the Northern lords flock to him? (Yet again he is having that 'what if' issue).

The issue of who the Mormont girl is does confuse them, as Kedlav/Trey Greyjoy said. In particular, as far as I can remember, Jon wonders what happened to the middle(?) daughter, since she should be the heir and she should be the one writing snippy letters to Stannis. He wonders why it is the 10-year old and not the older daughter. Has she died? (I loved this bit...that a 10-year old Mormont girl is telling Stannis to piss off...awesome).

That's all I can remember. I hope the other Marcon attendees will review this and make sure I remembered correctly and didn't make things up :)

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Thanks for the report Red Templar, and Lugalirra! All of the details make this chapter really come alive. I like that Jon is taking an active role in standing up to Stannis. I wonder what Janos Slynt would be up to now if he was Lord Commander? I'm sure Jon wouldn't be around to find out.

There's definitely something brewing with the Mormont girl. Where's the heir? Sick, dead, on a mission? Lady Mormont is one of the few who knows that Robb named Jon his heir. I wonder if this has anything to do with it? Off beseiging Deepwood Motte maybe?

The baby situation will be interesting. I'm sure it will be found out by Stannis and Mel that Jon switched the babies. I wonder what their reaction will be?

I'd like to see a chapter in ADWD where Jon has a meeting with his captains, so that the NW can all be on the same page in the long-term and in face of Stannis's 'occupation.'

This chapter ends similarly to the Jon II chapter. I imagine that chapter's end is now revised.

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As for the situaton with the Mormont girl, I feel that the new heir Alysane (if she's anything like her mother and Dacey) could be beseiging Deepwood Motte, and left Lyra on Bear Island to be castellan and answer all the messages that come in, etc. This seige could be even at the instructions of her mother, who was last seen with Lord Glover of Deepwood Motte and may be at Greywater Watch (where a bird could have been flown to Bear Island). I mean, Bear Island's right next to the Motte, and some of the Ironmen have left with Asha to return to the Kingsmoot, so there is a opening for a seige. You would imagine that at this point, the northern lords would be amassing some sort of attack to take back the North from the Ironmen.

SPOILER: Jon II
This would align with Stannis's (actually Jon's) plan to attack Deepwood Motte in the Jon II chapter and give it back to its rightful lords. Stannis would be assisting the Mormonts and Glovers, and could gain the support of those specific houses (plus more) if he was successful.

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And another report, from Black Beard of the Salt Sea:

Sorry if this is kind of jumbled, but I'm typing from memory the reading from MARCON in Columbus on 5/27/06. This is the first Jon chapter in ADWD, and has been re-written several times since it was last read (according to GRRM). It takes place very soon after the last Jon chapter in ASOS. If it's too much info or something, mods please feel free to edit. I didn't take notes so this is all from memory.

The chapter starts with Jon having wolf dreams about Ghost. Ghost is rememerbing his pack brothers and sisters. He knows that Summer is on the other side of the Wall. He also knows that Grey Wind was killed.

Jon wakes up thinking that the wolf dreams are getting worse. He scolds himself to remember that he is a man and will not be a wolf. Dolorous Edd comes in to ask him what he would like for breakfast as Jon is scolding the Old Bear's raven. The raven answers, "Corn, Corn Corn", and Jon says "Roasted raven". (Many laughs by the audience at this).

Jon tells Dolorous Edd that he won't have time for breakfast because he needs to talk to Stannis. Jon toys with a piece of parchment that would make him Lord Stark of Winterfell. Jon goes through the training yard on his way to see Stannis. A knight called Gadre (sp?) asks Jon to go a round with him. We learn that Gadre slayed a giant in the battle under the Wall. Jon tells him he fears he has other matters to attend to and the knight taunts him by saying "Yes, you fear". Jon ignores him and continues on to Stannis.

Jon passes Sam on his way to see Stannis. Sam is relaying a message for Stannis. Sam tells Jon he's not supposed to tell anyone what it says. Jon says he shouldn't tell then and continues on.

Jon and Stannis have a long conversation: Stannis mentions that Jon has refused his offer to become Lord Stark, and warns him that Winterfell will go to the Lannisters through Sansa (of course we know Jon has refused, but he still has the paper that would make it happen). Stannis then talks about the northern lords that have refused to acknowledge him as their rightful king. Only the Karstarks have agreed to join Stannis. Jon thinks this is because they have nowhere else to turn since Robb killed Lord Rickard and they slew Lannisters. Jon warns Stannis not to push the northern lords since they are just trying to protect their smallfolk from more bloodshed.

Stannis then tries to get Jon to give him the unmanned castles along the Wall for his own lords and knights as rewards for fighting Mance. Jon refuses and says that he has given them clothes, food and shelter. Stannis counters that the entire force at Castle Black would have been slain if he hadn't arrived. Jon tells Stannis he knew that he was going to ask for the castles. Stannis asks him how, and Jon thinks because Stannis's knights were boasting about it. Jon tells him he heard it from Gilly. Stannis says that maybe he should get rid of Gilly's tongue since he only needs her teats, not her talk. Jon says that he is planning on sending her away anyway, and Stannis questions this since Mance's son still needs the milk. Jon explains that Gilly's son is too greedy and Mance's son isn't getting much anyway because of this. He also mentions that Gilly's son is Craster's son and that Craster was greedy. Stannis gets confused about Gilly's son being Craster'

s. Jon explains that Craster married his daughters and got children on them. Stannis tells him to go ahead and send Gilly away since he doesn't need those kinds of abominations around. He remarks, "This isn't King's Landing after all" (More laughter from the audience at this.)

Jon still resists giving Stannis the castles. He tells Stannis that he will man the castles again. He requests that Stannis give him men to do so. Stannis says that his men won't take the black. Jon says they can just take commands from his appointed officers and help. Stannis says that they won't take orders from murderers, poachers, and thieves. Stannis threatens to take Jon's head and see if the new Lord Commander will be more willing to give him what he wants. Jon said that he thought Stannis wanted the truth and mentions the Onion Knight. Stannis says that he took Davis's fingers for being a smuggler. He says he would rather Jon tell him goods news than the truth (but we can tell that that's not what Stannis really wants).

They start talking about Mance's son and Dalla. Stannis is convinced that by holding them, the wildlings will do what he wants. Jon explains that wildlings do not consider the sons of kings as kings, only men strong enough to get them to follow. Stannis tells Jon he doesn't know what he's talking about. Jon thinks of Ygritte saying "You know nothing, Jon Snow." He thinks "Not then, but I learned". He doesn't respond to this comment by Stannis out loud. Stannis was hoping to give Rattleshirt and the Magnar a couple of the Wall's castles. Eventually Stannis gets mad enough to tell Jon to get out. Melisandre asks him if she can escort Jon back to his quarters. Stannis says that Jon knows the way, but she can do what she likes.

Mel tells Jon that she thinks Stannis is starting to like him, and he replies, "Yes. He only threatened to have my head twice". Mel tells him that he shouldn't worry about Stannis talking to him about that. It's a silent Stannis he should worry about. She asks him not to be harsh with her since she is trying to be his friend. She tells him he has other enemies she's seen in the flames. He tells her he knows his enemies. She says that it's not the ones he knows. It's the ones he counts as friends that he should worry about. Jon doesn't want to know who she is talking about. He starts asking her why she can't see more useful things in the flames. She tells him that she has seen him cold and surrounded by enemies on all sides in the snow. He says he knows what it's like to be cold, and she says "You know nothing Jon Snow".

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Jon passes Sam on his way to see Stannis. Sam is relaying a message for Stannis. Sam tells Jon he's not supposed to tell anyone what it says. Jon says he shouldn't tell then and continues on.

I wonder if this is important. It's kinda strange that Sam is relaying messages for Stannis, and that Sam doesn't refer to it in his chapters. I guess it's not that important then, probably just a message for Aemon... or is it?

He tells her he knows his enemies. She says that it's not the ones he knows. It's the ones he counts as friends that he should worry about.

I always thought Jon's enemies would simply be people pretending to be his friends. But this quote makes me think his enemies could be someone along the lines of Grenn or Pyp. I sure hope not. Could those he counts as enemies in fact be friends, as well? Are Thorne and Snow going to become buddies? ;)

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Jon says that he is planning on sending her away anyway, and Stannis questions this since Mance's son still needs the milk. Jon explains that Gilly's son is too greedy and Mance's son isn't getting much anyway because of this. He also mentions that Gilly's son is Craster's son and that Craster was greedy.

I like this. Jon is (intentionally, one assumes) reversing things--Mance's son was the greedy one, because he hadn't had anything but goat's milk at first.

Urizen:

Melisandre's comments as summarized sound an awful lot like this comment she made to Stannis in ASoS:

"An ant who hears the words of a king may not comprehend what he is saying," Melisandre said, "and all men are ants before the fiery face of god. If sometimes I have mistaken a warning for a prophecy or a prophecy for a warning, the fault lies in the reader, not the book." (p. 723, USpb)

So no, I don't think this is anything new.

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Guest Other-in-law
This seige could be even at the instructions of her mother, who was last seen with Lord Glover of Deepwood Motte and may be at Greywater Watch (where a bird could have been flown to Bear Island).

Nope. Not unless they brought the ravens with them...Greywater Watch has no maester.

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Do the Mormonts have the manpower to start a seige really? My impression was that most men went with Marge to the south with only a small force being left behind for protection. Also, didn't Jorah say that Bear Isle was fairly poor and thinly populated?

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I don't think the Mormonts have the manpower to mount an assault, certainly, but possibly a siege, especially if they were joined by any other forces nearby (the mountain clans, other smaller houses in the Wolfswood or further along the coast).

The Mormonts may be brewing something. Maege we know is still alive and was last seen heading for Greywater Watch and no doubt will carry on the fight.

Something interesting to note is that this chapter takes place before Sam's departure in AFFC. So either GRRM has abandoned his plan to do a Jon chapter as the flipside of that Sam chapter, or that chapter is now Jon 2.

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When Stannis talks about giving Winterfell to the Karstarks and how all of the Northern lords are ignoring his letters (he sent out a crapload of birds, but only two lords have replied, neither of them positively),

So Lyra Mormont is one of those that replied, who's the other? not the Karstarks since they allied with Stannis.

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So Lyra Mormont is one of those that replied, who's the other? not the Karstarks since they allied with Stannis.

Umber Probably. They are close to the wall, and they hate Wildings so much that they would defenitly turn stannis down.

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interesting wording from the mormont's, recognizing only a stark...

I wonder if Rickon is now at, or on the way to, Bear Island. seems like a reasonably safe and unexpected hiding place. surely lady mormont could have gotten him there if she made it to Greywater Watch and found him there. Wolf and boy can't have been happy in a swamp. Could also explain why the ten year old is responding to Stannis. if Maege, after finding Rickon, sent for her eldest daughter to come and fetch Rickon, to ferry him safely to Bear Island...

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Very nice chapter, thanks for the very detailed descriptions! :thumbsup:

One has to love the Mormonts! Stannis being told to shove it is quite priceless :D

It's a shame that we get clear confirmation that Nymeria is now eating people as well - this was rumoured around the Riverlands in ASOS, seems like it is true. Allthough it may only be feeding on dead bodies, but I'm not confident about that. Arya will have to rein her in again, if she can.

Seems that the wolves can magically communicate with each other; this should make it possible for the stronger wargs of them (Jon and Bran, at least) to make some kind of contact with each other at some point.

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interesting wording from the mormont's, recognizing only a stark...

Wait was this said? cause if it was, Meage was one of the ppl present when Robb made his decleration abt who should be his heir...and if Lyra said "only a stark" then couldnt that be meant as a sort of "hint", maybe the Stark they are going to recognize is Jon, and Meage is on her way now to tell him of Robbs plans...or maybe its nothing but Lyra being a brat.

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