Small questions v.10007

[nara]

Is there any sort of calendar system in Westeros? I know they count years starting from Aegon's Landing. But is there evidence that they divide the year into named months or have weeks of a certain number of days?

They do refer to "moons", but it's not clear if that is the same number of days as our moon cycles

[The Dornishman's Wife]

They do refer to "moons", but it's not clear if that is the same number of days as our moon cycles

Assuming that the humans of the books are identical to us, then their moons (which are roughly the length of one female cycle) are roughly the length of our months.

Naming them makes slightly less sense than it does in our world, as the "same" month does not usually correspond to any pattern in the world (seasons) and we don't know any names for their months. Still, they could of course exist unmentioned.

[Lissa Nymeros Martell]

Brandon Stark was on his way to Riverrun to marry Catelyn when he heard about his sister's abduction and went to KL instead. We know this because Brandon died a few days before the wedding and I believe it's mentioned that he was en route. Why weren't Rickard, Lyanna, Benjen, and Ned also on their way there for the wedding? The first 2 were in Winterfell, Ned was in the Eyrie, and who knows about Benjen...

I believe Benjen was remaining in Winterfell. Rickard was already at Riverrun with Hoster Tully. Brandon was leaving from winterfell IIRC Lady Dustin mentioned Brandon was leaving Winterfell to Riverrun when she last saw him. We're not sure where Lyanna was.

[Lissa Nymeros Martell]

They could have gone around but remember Robb needed to quickly get to Riverrun before Jaime could take it. The surrounding land was too boggy to make any quick progress around the green fork (was it the green fork?). The Twins was the only route were they could get there in time.

Robb needed Lord Frey's bannermen to take Casterly Rock.

[mindchap]

I'll preface this question with saying I haven't read the Dunk and Egg books, but whatever happened to House Butterwell? I know they had Whitewalls taken down after the Blackfyre Rebellion, but the wiki doesn't list them as extinct so I assume they're still about to this day. It doesn't seem like there's any concrete information on them in ASOIAF but it'd be nice to know if they were even still around?

They were allowed to keep one tenth of their wealth, but Whitewalls was pulled down stone by stone and salt was sewn to make sure nothing would ever grow there again.

This is the only mention of a Butterwell in the novels:

“Ser Ryam Redwyne was the greatest knight of his day, and one of the worst Hands ever to serve a king. Septon Murmison’s prayers worked miracles, but as Hand he soon had the whole realm praying for his death. Lord Butterwell was renowned for wit, Myles Smallwood for courage, Ser Otto Hightower for learning, yet they failed as Hands, every one. As for birth, the dragonkings oft chose Hands from amongst their own blood, with results as various as Baelor Breakspear and Maegor the Cruel. Against this, you have Septon Barth, the blacksmith’s son the Old King plucked from the Red Keep’s library, who gave the realm forty years of peace and plenty.” Pylos smiled. “Read your history, Lord Davos, and you will see that your doubts are groundless.”

[Lost Melnibonean]

Is there any sort of calendar system in Westeros? I know they count years starting from Aegon's Landing. But is there evidence that they divide the year into named months or have weeks of a certain number of days?

They do seem to have a similar sun, moon, and zodiac. Pay attention when Jon and Ygritte are comparing their perceptions of the stars. It suggests their sky looks just like ours, including Mars.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Brandon Stark was on his way to Riverrun to marry Catelyn when he heard about his sister's abduction and went to KL instead. We know this because Brandon died a few days before the wedding and I believe it's mentioned that he was en route. Why weren't Rickard, Lyanna, Benjen, and Ned also on their way there for the wedding? The first 2 were in Winterfell, Ned was in the Eyrie, and who knows about Benjen...

Actually I just reread the Whispering Wood chapter and Cat suggests tht Brandon left RR for KL telling Cat they would be wed on his return.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Robb needed Lord Frey's bannermen to take Casterly Rock.

You've been watching too many reruns...

[RumHam]

The third and final Blackfyre rebellion was the War of the Nine Penny Kings, which took place entirely in Essos and the Stepstones, so it seems unlikely that House Butterwell would have been involved. Plus they're not listed as extinct on the wiki (although that's not an entirely reliable source.).

Any idea what this wiki quote is talking about?

"(as many as five Blackfyre rebellions have been mentioned)."

I know the wiki isn't perfect, but if that's not true we should probably remove it no?

Also do we know if the Andals picked up everything and moved their entire culture like the Rhoynar? or if they expanded into Westeros and then the Andals remaining in Essos were wiped out later?

Robb needed Lord Frey's bannermen to take Casterly Rock.

Only on the show, and that was on the way back. It's funny because in the books he's leading his men back to retake the north, in the show he's supposed to be just grabbing Frey men and heading south and west to take Casterly Rock. At the feast, one of the soldiers Arya sees die says to another "Ready to head home to Winterfell?" or something when they're not even headed that way.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Re blackfyre rebellions: we know the first ended at redgrass; we know the second was over before it began at whitewalls; and we know the last was part of the WOT9PK. We also know there were at least two more b/c yronwood rode with BS 3x including #1 but not WOT9PK. There may even have been one more since one of the GC officers suggests that more than one (Maelys) tried to cross the Narrow sea after BS.

[Yukle]

Any idea what this wiki quote is talking about?

"(as many as five Blackfyre rebellions have been mentioned)."

Also do we know if the Andals picked up everything and moved their entire culture like the Rhoynar? or if they expanded into Westeros and then the Andals remaining in Essos were wiped out later?

It's unclear how many there were. Maekar, the king who ruled before Aegon IV "the Unlikely," was killed in battle. Since he reigned after the Second Blackfyre Rebellion but before the War of the Ninepenny Kings then it's possible that he was killed in a Blackfyre Rebellion. Aemon recollects the fallout of his death since Maekor was his father and he declined the crown in favour of remaining a maester. Yet he doesn't go into detail about the death, so some assume that it was House Blackfyre launching another coup.

The Andals seem to have remained in Essos because their lands are still named what the Andals called them. Since they were suitably advanced to defeat most of the First Men, then their technology must have protected them for quite a while. However, they fell to the Valyrian Empire. It's possible that ethnic Andals remain in the Free Cities since it's unclear if the Valyrians exterminated them or not.

[KamiShikkaku]

Is there any generally accepted pattern or criteria with regards to the chapter-naming conventions in AFFC and ADDW?

e.g.

"The Prophet" instead of "Aeron"

"Cat of the Canals" instead of Arya.)

My thinking was that there are two separate criteria for giving a chapter a special name: In the first example it's because he's not a main character, and in the second example it's because she's going through some kind identity crisis. This would lead us to believe that Melisandre is now a main character based on her named chapter in ADDW.

Is this the general consensus, or has a more reasonable theory on GRRM's chapter-naming conventions been contributed by someone?

[mindchap]

Is there any generally accepted pattern or criteria with regards to the chapter-naming conventions in AFFC and ADDW?

e.g.

"The Prophet" instead of "Aeron"

"Cat of the Canals" instead of Arya.)

My thinking was that there are two separate criteria for giving a chapter a special name: In the first example it's because he's not a main character, and in the second example it's because she's going through some kind identity crisis. This would lead us to believe that Melisandre is now a main character based on her named chapter in ADDW.

Is this the general consensus, or has a more reasonable theory on GRRM's chapter-naming conventions been contributed by someone?

I think there's an SSM on this but I can't find it at the moment.

[not in the face]

When will the She-Wolves of Winterfell be released again? I heard it was postponed.

[Beorn Snow]

Do the Blackfyres call themselves Blackfyre, or do they call themselves Targaryen?

[Knight Of Winter]

Is there any generally accepted pattern or criteria with regards to the chapter-naming conventions in AFFC and ADDW?

e.g.

"The Prophet" instead of "Aeron"

"Cat of the Canals" instead of Arya.)

My thinking was that there are two separate criteria for giving a chapter a special name: In the first example it's because he's not a main character, and in the second example it's because she's going through some kind identity crisis. This would lead us to believe that Melisandre is now a main character based on her named chapter in ADDW.

Is this the general consensus, or has a more reasonable theory on GRRM's chapter-naming conventions been contributed by someone?

You're probably correct. GRRM said he's been exploring problems of identity and identity crisis in AFFC and ADWD which he decided to reflect on chapter names. Probably best example is Theon in ADWD, whose first chapters are named Reek, only to go through Prince of Winterfell, Turncloak and Ghost in Winterfell to finally Theon in his last chapter.

[mindchap]

Do the Blackfyres call themselves Blackfyre, or do they call themselves Targaryen?

Daemon took the name Blackfyre so I would assume yes, but there is no actual text evidence that I know of.

[Winterz]

What exactly is a holdfast? How is it different from a keep or a towerhouse?

From what I've gathered, holdast is a small castle meant for minor Lordlings. A keep is sort of a fortification/castle inside another settlement (examples: Red Keep in KL, Great Keep in WF) and a towerhouse is just that, a tower house, used by minor lordlings too.

[Lost Melnibonean]

It's unclear how many there were. Maekar, the king who ruled before Aegon IV "the Unlikely," was killed in battle. Since he reigned after the Second Blackfyre Rebellion but before the War of the Ninepenny Kings then it's possible that he was killed in a Blackfyre Rebellion. Aemon recollects the fallout of his death since Maekor was his father and he declined the crown in favour of remaining a maester. Yet he doesn't go into detail about the death, so some assume that it was House Blackfyre launching another coup.

That's what I thought too but somebody in another thread explained how Maekar was not killed durin BF rebellion (I think by referrece to the app). He was killed fighting a rebel lord probably Lothson.

[RumHam]

That's what I thought too but somebody in another thread explained how Maekar was not killed durin BF rebellion (I think by referrece to the app). He was killed fighting a rebel lord probably Lothson.

Any lord siding with the Blackfyres in one of their rebellions would be a rebel lord no?