[BOOK SPOILERS] Jaime?

[Cas Stark]

As is, the person he made the promise to is dead. There's no promise to keep. All he promised is that he'd return Sansa and Arya to Catelyn.

Hmmm. Doesn't he know in the book that Cat is dead when he sends Brienne on her quest?

[Ravi Seaworth]

Hmmm. Doesn't he know in the book that Cat is dead when he sends Brienne on her quest?

And he does that not to take Sansa to Cat, but to protect her. While she is in KL, they can do that.

[Versiroth]

Hmmm. Doesn't he know in the book that Cat is dead when he sends Brienne on her quest?

Yes, and that's what makes his decision to do so another moment of redemption. He's trying to do what he can to make up for not being able to fulfill his vow. This scene will still happen after she goes missing, but that doesn't change the fact that him being there early doesn't matter. He can't fulfill his vow regardless as Catelyn is dead.

[Cas Stark]

Yes, and that's what makes his decision to do so another moment of redemption. He's trying to do what he can to make up for not being able to fulfill his vow. This scene will still happen after she goes missing, but that doesn't change the fact that him being there early doesn't matter. He can't fulfill his vow regardless as Catelyn is dead.

How does him being there while Sansa is there "not matter"?

If he was going to take his vow seriously, AND he is in KL AND Sansa is there, then the thing to do is go to her and find out what she wants and do it. Does she want an annulment and to go to Essos or go to her aunt or go to White Harbor or what?

If he's in KL with Sansa and he does nothing then he is by definition failed to attempt to save or help her...which is a huge departure from the book, because in the book he arrives TOO LATE to help her.

[freetickles]

Yes, and that's what makes his decision to do so another moment of redemption. He's trying to do what he can to make up for not being able to fulfill his vow. This scene will still happen after she goes missing, but that doesn't change the fact that him being there early doesn't matter. He can't fulfill his vow regardless as Catelyn is dead.

Still, in the books I think he and Brienne both have very good excuses for not doing more for Sansa - she was gone before they got to KL. Now there will have been this period when they and she were all in KL and they didn't do shit for her; even if there wasn't much they COULD do for her, it will be less of an excuse.

[cybobbie]

I was very surprised and upset with him arriving so soon and since I saw it on the preview of the episode I tried to imagine a way out - I mean what the writers could come up with - and after reading all the posts here all the possible way outs of this situation that I had in mind won't work anymore. Of course that they will do something different from the books now and we will have to wait and see, but what bothers me is that I really don't get why they brought him to KL so soon.

[Lord of Castamere]

This is a most strange deviation to me as well. Cant quite get why it was done.

[Chickren]

A couple of questions I have regarding this change:

• If Jaime only received 50 seconds of screen time, then what was the point of him returning early?
  

• When do we get to see Brienne react to the red wedding?
  

• Will we even get to see her reaction?
  

• Jaime returning before the purple wedding means that Cersei is in a completely different frame of mind. Are her and Jaime just going to be happily catching up until the PW or?
  
• What is Brienne going to do if she’s no longer going to be imprisoned? Loras says is season two that he doesn't believe Brienne killed Renly.
  

1--Can't see one. And I've tried.

2--Whenever we do, can they give it enough time to show that while she came through capture, several near rapes, beatings, and a bear pit still tough as nails, it was actually the RW that devastated her? It feels like Brienne is a foil for Catelyn and Jaime and not exactly a character in her own right.

3--It's iffy.

4--Yes. We're going to see Jaime and Cersei in a warm place, rather than re-uniting to find they've both changed. It's an odd choice, mostly because it loses the drama of a disjointed reunion and means a new set-up for the break-up. What could top the emotional impact of the sept scene and how wrong it goes between them? It's not just that she asks him to kill Tyrion that explains it. It's knowing Jaime walked into the sept in a new frame of mind that sets up what follows.

5--Who knows? Sit at the spa?

[Versiroth]

How does him being there while Sansa is there "not matter"?

If he was going to take his vow seriously, AND he is in KL AND Sansa is there, then the thing to do is go to her and find out what she wants and do it. Does she want an annulment and to go to Essos or go to her aunt or go to White Harbor or what?

If he's in KL with Sansa and he does nothing then he is by definition failed to attempt to save or help her...which is a huge departure from the book, because in the book he arrives TOO LATE to help her.

The only thing that he promised was to return them to Cat. Cat is dead. Sansa is also married to Tyrion. Jaime doesn't owe anything to anyone now that Cat's dead. For him to defy his family and his brother and take Sansa away would be ridiculous. What wouldn't be ridiculous is for him to want to help her after she goes missing. Which is why he'll send Brienne after her after the PW. Seriously... him being in KL early doesn't matter one bit. He promised Catelyn that he'd return her girls. Since that promise, Sansa married Tyrion and Catelyn died. Now, if he'd have arrived before the RW, then you guys could freak out, because he'd have to make a choice between his vow and his family, but, since Catelyn is dead, he no longer has a vow.

[Cas Stark]

If he freed from his vow then why does he bother sending Brienne to find Sansa in defiance of his sister's wish?

[dtones520]

Thats the problem with splitting the book. based on where Jaimes arc ended in the series, he had to arrive at KL before Joffs death. Or else we would have gotten no Jaime scenes for like 5-6 episodes spanning two seasons. him being at the PW is no biggie. plus, we don't get the super weird sex scene next to Joffa dead body.

[MyLittleDirewolf]

I'm wondering how this storyline is going to unfold. In a way, it's kind of fun when the show doesn't exactly follow the books.

Here's my idea:

1. Cersei sees Jaime and Brienne's relationship and *she* decides to charge her with Renly's death and puts her in the cells. Thus kicking off Jaime moving away from Cersei.

2. Sansa is married to Tyrion, Cat is dead, so who are J&B going to return her to? Jaime tries his best to protect Sansa from the Lannisters. Maybe a scene of Jaime or Brienne telling Sansa about the vow to her mother.

3. PW happens early in S4, so they don't have much time to save her anyway.

4. Littlefinger comes back for the wedding, convo with Sansa about how he's the only one she can trust, yada yada, hairnet, Sansa disappears.

5. Storyline now proceeds with Jaime charging Brienne to find Sansa,gives her Oathkeeper. Frees Tyrion.

[Aerys Blackfyre]

and above all, what is Brienne doing in the meantime? a Stark loyalist feasting at the wedding of a king she despises? will she have a chance to speak to Sansa about her mother?

[Ravi Seaworth]

If he freed from his vow then why does he bother sending Brienne to find Sansa in defiance of his sister's wish?

Because he still thinks he owes Sansa's safety to Catelyn. I do not remember very well, but in the books I think he does that to prevent Cersei from putting her hands on Sansa before he does. It is part of his redemption. In fact, that same question can be posed regarding the story of the book. Jaime being in KL early does not change that story a bit. It might cast some doubts regarding what he ought to do until the PW, but not after, I think.

[six]

That was actually my exact problem with the scene. This is supposed to be a twisted, wrong, perverse relationship, and there should be at least an undertone of something forbidden or "not right" going on. Instead, it was like a typical romantic homecoming of the wounded hero to his long-suffering wife.

This, thank you. It was never meant to be a reunion like in The Notebook. It's meant to be an unhealthy relationship between them, not some romantic love story.

Let's be honest Brienne's quest to find Sansa was really boring. I'll welcome a change here.

Speak for yourself, I actually quite liked those chapters. With this said, I'm not against some changes.

1. To create some story with him and Cersei next season before she goes mad with grief. She'll likely partially blame him after Joffs death. Especially when he takes Tyrion's side.

4. This will make for good TV, because they'll show the two happy before everything falls apart after the PW. The viewers will actually get to see the impact the PW has on their relationship.

Seriously guys... think outside the box some times. You guys act like changing the smallest, most insignificant details in a book series with thousands of pages will just ruin the whole show.

Sorry, how is changing completely the characterisation of a relationship (from co-dependent and unhealthy to a romantic, happy one) a "smallest, most insignificant detail"? And who's the judge of that anyway, you?

Yes, and that's what makes his decision to do so another moment of redemption. He's trying to do what he can to make up for not being able to fulfill his vow. This scene will still happen after she goes missing, but that doesn't change the fact that him being there early doesn't matter. He can't fulfill his vow regardless as Catelyn is dead.

You do realise that was the whole point. The fact that both Jaime and Brienne wanted to keep that vow even though Cat was dead?

1--Can't see one. And I've tried.

2--Whenever we do, can they give it enough time to show that while she came through capture, several near rapes, beatings, and a bear pit still tough as nails, it was actually the RW that devastated her? It feels like Brienne is a foil for Catelyn and Jaime and not exactly a character in her own right.

3--It's iffy.

4--Yes. We're going to see Jaime and Cersei in a warm place, rather than re-uniting to find they've both changed. It's an odd choice, mostly because it loses the drama of a disjointed reunion and means a new set-up for the break-up. What could top the emotional impact of the sept scene and how wrong it goes between them? It's not just that she asks him to kill Tyrion that explains it. It's knowing Jaime walked into the sept in a new frame of mind that sets up what follows.

5--Who knows? Sit at the spa?

BiB: Agreed. After this episode I thought it was pretty clear. Which is a shame.

and above all, what is Brienne doing in the meantime? a Stark loyalist feasting at the wedding of a king she despises? will she have a chance to speak to Sansa about her mother?

I guess she'll feature very little. Again, I wish it wasn't the case, but this change is pretty radical and there aren't many ways to make it work, imo. It was done to have more Lannisters' interactions, but it leaves Brienne very much out. She's Jaime inspirational knight, and not much more in the show. Or so it seems.

[zaphodbrx]

and above all, what is Brienne doing in the meantime? a Stark loyalist feasting at the wedding of a king she despises? will she have a chance to speak to Sansa about her mother?

Brienne is hardly a 'Stark Loyalist'. In the beginning she's a Renly loyalist, then kills Renly men, then kills Stark men, then has a lot of bonding/interaction with Jamie. She has a bunch of adventures later on which have nothing to do with Starks either.

[David Selig]

As is, the person he made the promise to is dead. There's no promise to keep.

As Brienne put it, "No promise was as solemn as one sworn to the dead."

[Spidey]

• When do we get to see Brienne react to the red wedding?
  

• Will we even get to see her reaction?
  

Maybe she'll upload a reaction video on Youtube.

[Lord Damian]

i am assuming that Ser Dontos will appear in Season 4 and smuggle Sansa out. Joff's wedding must be episode 2 or 3 next year. I cannot wait. Jaime though, should not be back yet.

[Cas Stark]

As Brienne put it, "No promise was as solemn as one sworn to the dead."

LOL, I wouldn't have thought the fact that the poignancy of the quest was that it was in fulfilling an oath to a dead person would have gone over so many people's heads.

But, I tend to think its more excusing the show for what promises to be another example of failing to connect the logic dots.