[BOOK SPOILERS] Jaime?

[Mendoza]

On the show, given her interactions, it makes more sense for Cercei to suspect Marg than Tyrion.

[Cas Stark]

Yeah, they've kind of written themselves into another logic fail, but nobody but the readers care....Cersei and Tyrion are getting along better than ever...she didn't even blink when he threatened Joff this time in front of their father or bring it up in their tet a tet.

But, the show will barrel right through all that. You might think with her more rational brother there at the time that he would be able to prevent her full descent into abject paranoia and remind her that the Tyrells are their real foes. But, that won't happen either.

I can't imagine why they brought Jamie to KL, but I guess we'll find out next year, or sometimes, its just random, like that whole Cat scene about Jon Snow that wasn't in the books and everyone thought was a set up for the will scene...but it was just a random bit of dialogue that meant nothing in terms of show plot. LOLZ

[BlackStark]

Compared to the books, it was an emotional reunion. There was nothing twisted in it. Also, I'm not sure everybody caught the horror in Cersei's face- I personally didn't see it either, I saw concern and shock, and the only element that made me think something was not quite right was Jaime looking at his stump, and the fact she didn't jump in his arms immediately. But I've seen lots of posters saying she had a look of love, and that they think they'll just carry on from where they left. It was quite ambiguous, and not at all like in the books.

Because this season she's not hostile towards him, she's even sharing her feelings with him. It would surprise me if she would immediately jump to the conclusion it was Tyrion. In the books she does that because she hates Tyrion's guts. In the show, in season 3, apparently they're reasonably amicable.

I agree with your initial point on the thread. Having the reunion occur the way it did in the book served to highlight how twisted and dysfunctional their relationship was...the depth of their obsession for one another being so great that even the presence of their child laying there dead in a holy place couldn't prevent the carnal lust and passion between them. It also serves as a contrast to what they will eventually become as Jaime grows as a person and apart from Cersei. If they are already in a "meh" stage, the future distance is not really all that pronounced.

[Versiroth]

Because this season she's not hostile towards him, she's even sharing her feelings with him. It would surprise me if she would immediately jump to the conclusion it was Tyrion. In the books she does that because she hates Tyrion's guts. In the show, in season 3, apparently they're reasonably amicable.

Tyrion threatens Joffrey's life several times (including at his own wedding in front of several witnesses) . Tyrion Serves Joffrey Wine. Joffrey chokes to death. Tyrion is seen pouring out the wine. Cersei (along with most everyone else) thinks that Tyrion poisoned Joffrey. 2 + 2 usually equals 4....

And Cersei has likely been portrayed as sane because they want her going crazy to be jarring. Instead of it just being "Yeah, she's crazy.... what else is new?".

[WingedMan]

It is almost like the writers have not actually read the books and don't understand how an unnecessary change (an appearance by Jaime and Brienne in KL in the season finale) can throw off the entire story progression.

Agreed. And now they probably need to construct a new storyline because of this. I'm worried about the long-term effects. I don't like when they write unnecessary new material while cutting events from books.

[Wunhopkuendo]

Compared to the books, it was an emotional reunion. There was nothing twisted in it. Also, I'm not sure everybody caught the horror in Cersei's face- I personally didn't see it either, I saw concern and shock, and the only element that made me think something was not quite right was Jaime looking at his stump, and the fact she didn't jump in his arms immediately. But I've seen lots of posters saying she had a look of love, and that they think they'll just carry on from where they left. It was quite ambiguous, and not at all like in the books.

Because this season she's not hostile towards him, she's even sharing her feelings with him. It would surprise me if she would immediately jump to the conclusion it was Tyrion. In the books she does that because she hates Tyrion's guts. In the show, in season 3, apparently they're reasonably amicable.

I have to disagree with you on both counts. Anyone that didn't interpret the look between them as a difference in their relationship will be either surprised or disappointed come next season when their relationship is not the happy time it once was.

Cersei and Tyrion are far from friendly. The only interactions the two have that are amicable are always in private. She jabs at him in every public setting and even a little in private. If anything, she is using Tyrion as some sort of therapist, but is hardly chummy. She really has no one she can talk to about her problems. Jaime is gone, Robert is dead, even Sansa, who she liked to taunt from time to time, is out of the picture for her. But come back to public settings and she has nothing to do with him. And Tyrion hardly trusts her. He is too smart to not see what she is about, and goads her as well. I think it adds so much more to their relationship than the simple "I hate my brother" angle in the books.

[Katydid]

Agreed. And now they probably need to construct a new storyline because of this. I'm worried about the long-term effects. I don't like when they write unnecessary new material while cutting events from books.

I understand the need for some changes, but this one (having Jaime & Brienne arrive @ KL early) makes no sense. Especially considering what they had happen...NOTHING. So Jaime was brushed aside by a commoner and Brienne smiled supportively; coulda seen that next season. So Jaime stepped through a door and saw his sister, who gave him a less-than-thrilled gaze; coulda seen that next season, too.

It really is a shame they feel the need to do pointless things like that - - things they know will get the hackles up for the book readers, as well as botching up time- and storylines. :(

[Retorus]

It wouldn't make sense for the Tyrell's to take out Joffrey in her mind would it? Their daughter will be queen and she has him wrapped around her finger, I still think she'd logically suspect it was Tyrion.

[six]

On the show, given her interactions, it makes more sense for Cercei to suspect Marg than Tyrion.

This.

Tyrion threatens Joffrey's life several times (including at his own wedding in front of several witnesses) . Tyrion Serves Joffrey Wine. Joffrey chokes to death. Tyrion is seen pouring out the wine. Cersei (along with most everyone else) thinks that Tyrion poisoned Joffrey. 2 + 2 usually equals 4....

And Cersei has likely been portrayed as sane because they want her going crazy to be jarring. Instead of it just being "Yeah, she's crazy.... what else is new?".

She's not just being portrayed as sane. She's diluted and very whitewashed, as many people pointed out.

I have to disagree with you on both counts. Anyone that didn't interpret the look between them as a difference in their relationship will be either surprised or disappointed come next season when their relationship is not the happy time it once was.

Cersei and Tyrion are far from friendly. The only interactions the two have that are amicable are always in private. She jabs at him in every public setting and even a little in private. If anything, she is using Tyrion as some sort of therapist, but is hardly chummy. She really has no one she can talk to about her problems. Jaime is gone, Robert is dead, even Sansa, who she liked to taunt from time to time, is out of the picture for her. But come back to public settings and she has nothing to do with him. And Tyrion hardly trusts her. He is too smart to not see what she is about, and goads her as well. I think it adds so much more to their relationship than the simple "I hate my brother" angle in the books.

Jaime/Cersei: maybe you're right. However, they've changed Cersei in quite a significant way, and with that they also change the relationship she has with Jaime. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they would be happy together until Joff dies, and only fall apart for that reason. Show!Cersei has hardly cheated, and it's not half as cruel as she's in the books, so I don't know if I can see her undermining Jaime the way she does in the books. She did look all emotional when she saw him, and the fact they decided to have their reunion in such a soap-like way (Cersei smiling at a sea shell thinking of Jaime is day time soap opera worthy, in fact I'm sure I've seen a similar scene in Bold&Beautiful in the 90s) speaks volumes, IMO.

Cersei/Tyrion: I disagree. Their interactions this season suggest there's some sort of reluctant underlying respect between each other. I'm not sure it's more interesting, but it changes their dynamic a fair bit.

It really is a shame they feel the need to do pointless things like that - - things they know will get the hackles up for the book readers, as well as botching up time- and storylines. :(

I hear you.

[ChozenOne]

About Loras confronting and accusing Brienne, was the comment about him not believing it was her in a deleted scene? I know one of the deleted scenes from S2 featured Margery and Loras. Haven't watched season 2 in a while, I'll have to check and see what he says in the episode, and rewatch the deleted scene if he does say it, because if he does, i have no idea what that deleted scene was about.

[six]

About Loras confronting and accusing Brienne, was the comment about him not believing it was her in a deleted scene? I know one of the deleted scenes from S2 featured Margery and Loras. Haven't watched season 2 in a while, I'll have to check and see what he says in the episode, and rewatch the deleted scene if he does say it, because if he does, i have no idea what that deleted scene was about.

I re-watched it.

Margaery: "Brienne did it (kill Renly)"

Loras " I don't believe it. You don't believe it.

Loras thinks it was Stannis. So the Loras thing is definitely scrapped.

[Katydid]

I re-watched it.

Margaery: "Brienne did it (kill Renly)"

Loras " I don't believe it. You don't believe it.

Loras thinks it was Stannis. So the Loras thing is definitely scrapped.

Another bummer and unnecessary change. Really kinda wanted to hear Jaime threaten Loras - - NCW delivering the "now sheathe your bloody sword, or I’ll take it from you and shove it up some place even Renly never found!" line would have been epic.

[JMJ]

The only thing I can come up with as to why the show writers felt compelled to change the story to having Jaime arrive early back at KL was that they wanted to have a scene with Jaime reuniting with Cersei THIS season, and to leave what comes next as a sorta cliffhanger. From a book purist perspective, at the end of S3:E10, Jaime should still be on the Kingsroad with Brienne. They find out about the PW there. But, not much else is happening to him. The Cersei reunion is the first big thing that comes next in his storyline.

I'm not justifying this change, just sayin' that this is probably why it happened.

[six]

Another bummer and unnecessary change. Really kinda wanted to hear Jaime threaten Loras - - NCW delivering the "now sheathe your bloody sword, or I’ll take it from you and shove it up some place even Renly never found!" line would have been epic.

Tell me about it. Some changes go with the fact it's a different medium, but others are literally nothing but unnecessary bollocks. This is one instance.

The only thing I can come up with as to why the show writers felt compelled to change the story to having Jaime arrive early back at KL was that they wanted to have a scene with Jaime reuniting with Cersei THIS season, and to leave what comes next as a sorta cliffhanger. From a book purist perspective, at the end of S3:E10, Jaime should still be on the Kingsroad with Brienne. They find out about the PW there. But, not much else is happening to him. The Cersei reunion is the first big thing that comes next in his storyline.

I'm not justifying this change, just sayin' that this is probably why it happened.

Tbh, in the chapter where Jaime and Brienne get to KL, Jaime retells how Brienne is upset she found out about the RW, he tries to make her snap out of it and when it doesn't work he offers her a place in KL to which she replies, paraphrasing it "F- you, Lannister, your lot are murderers" . So if they wanted to, there would be material. But it's evident that the show runners have their favourites and Brienne isn't one of them, so they're rushing them to KL with unnecessary changes that don't make sense. The Jaime/Cersei reunion could have waited till the first episode of season 4 and nothing would have been lost.

[I'll pay the iron price]

His early return to KL is confusing

I can only think HBO want to make a big deal out of Jaime freeing (or at least playing a part in freeing) Sansa?

[silentwanderer]

About Loras confronting and accusing Brienne, was the comment about him not believing it was her in a deleted scene?

No, it was in the actual episode: Loras even defended Brienne in front of Margaery and Littlefinger last season.

He doesn't believe she killed Renly. The very reason he helped the Lannisters is because he sought revenge againts Stannis.

ETA:

Well, in my book Jaime's relation with Cersei isn't more unhealty of any romantic, teenager "real " love one anywhere else.

I think the show focussed on it from the incest perspective more than anything else: Jaime loves Cersei because she's the only woman he has ever interacted with.

Trapped within the family clan, Jaime wasn't allowed to pursue a dynamic with anyone else - male or female - his best friend is his brother, his leader is his father and his sons and daughters are the product of an incestual relationship with the only woman of his family he's allowed to interact with.

The year he got prisoner was the first time Jaime ever had an opportunity to stray: obey the orders of a different clan leader (Catelyn Stark), develop a connection with another woman (Brienne) and enjoy what's is perhaps the first adult relationship in his life with someone who's not a Lannister.

[Cas Stark]

His early return to KL is confusing

I can only think HBO want to make a big deal out of Jaime freeing (or at least playing a part in freeing) Sansa?

But how would that work? If Jamie helps her escape he's going to know where LF is going--the Vale. I guess it might make sense since Lysa will still be alive that he would accept that is the best place for Sansa. But then, what in the hell will Brienne be doing for the rest of the series, which she spent looking for Sansa who was hidden in the Vale, with nobody knowing this?

[I'll pay the iron price]

But how would that work? If Jamie helps her escape he's going to know where LF is going--the Vale. I guess it might make sense since Lysa will still be alive that he would accept that is the best place for Sansa. But then, what in the hell will Brienne be doing for the rest of the series, which she spent looking for Sansa who was hidden in the Vale, with nobody knowing this?

I dunno, I'm speculating

Perhaps he'll get Sansa taken to the Vale and send Brienne after Arya instead?

HBO will be making some plot deviations from the books.......

[teemo]

I was looking forward to my moon blood casket scene :crying:

[Versiroth]

I dunno, I'm speculating

Perhaps he'll get Sansa taken to the Vale and send Brienne after Arya instead?

HBO will be making some plot deviations from the books.......

I'd bet money that Sansa's escape plays out almost exactly how it did in the book. Sansa wouldn't trust Jaime, a Lannister even if he did try to help her. Dontos will approach a grieving Sansa and coax her into trusting him. After the PW, he'll take her to LFs ship and LF will take her to the Veil. Jaime will then send Brienne to find and protect Sansa, because he won't believe she or Tyrion had anything to do with Joffrey's death.