Meanwhile on the Iron Islands (book spoilers)

[silentwanderer]

I still don't like the fact Balon is still alive and Yara has, basically, been eliminated from the upcoming race of succession with this plot.

However, I can't wait to see what happens next.

[the hound of sansa]

why do you say that :

Yara has, basically, been eliminated from the upcoming race of succession with this plot.

?

i really hoped they would show Balon die in the last episode, and maybe Asha seeing Euron's ships in the horizon

[TheDarkOne]

I don't think we are going to see a Kingsmoot.

[protar]

This is what I would do, but it also depends on whether they would include the Battle of Slaver's Bay in season 5. Vic/Euron(I think they might merge the two) setting sail to Meereen in season 5 and still not reaching the city by the end of the season would be a waste of time.

So put the battle of Slaver's Bay in season 5. It really could have been so straightforwards.

[Pinkie Baelish]

So put the battle of Slaver's Bay in season 5. It really could have been so straightforwards.

It's not so simple. It also depends on whether TWOW is released by then. Note, they would need to know the events of the battle by mid-2014, when they begin to start writing and planning the season. We can guarantee that the book won't be out by then.

They also need to take into account all the other arcs, and make sure they have enough time for the Dornish plot(if they include that) and Quentyn's death, plus Daznak's pit, Tyrion's storyline and Aegon's movements. And that's only looking at the Essos side of things.

What they really need for season 5 is more episodes. 12-14 is probably impossible, but I think it's necessary if they want to tell a wholly satisfying story without axing some subplots.

[MorbidRabbit]

About the change on Yara's story, I think it is a filler with 2 goals :

- give Alfie Allen some screentime

- establich Yara as a main character

My guess is they will use this to show how Theon became Reek : early in S4, Yara's commando will enter the Dreadfort and try to rescue Theon but he will raise the alarm / refuse to come with them because he is too afraid of Ramsay and refuses to believe this is not a new trick.

Meanwhile on the Iron islands, Balon dies and Euron arrives.

Yara may come back for the Kingsmoot which would take place in the end of S4 (or she's captured by Stannis but I don't see how this could work)

[Pinkie Baelish]

What they might do with Theon is have Yara rescue him. As they're running to safety, Yara gets away, but Theon is captured by Ramsay, and they reveal that Ramsay wanted Theon to try and escape, just so that he had the pleasure of crushing his hope. Theon is then taken back to the Dreadfort and tortured offscreen while Yara gets away.

I'm just worried that this might be a bit redundant given that they did something similar in s3. I also worry that Yara might be captured and turned into new boots for Ramsay.

[Colonel Green]

(or she's captured by Stannis but I don't see how this could work)

She stays in the North to hunt for Theon, since Ramsay and co. will probably leave the Dreadfort. At some point, she comes across Stannis. Pretty easy.

[Ravi Seaworth]

What they might do with Theon is have Yara rescue him. As they're running to safety, Yara gets away, but Theon is captured by Ramsay, and they reveal that Ramsay wanted Theon to try and escape, just so that he had the pleasure of crushing his hope. Theon is then taken back to the Dreadfort and tortured offscreen while Yara gets away.

I'm just worried that this might be a bit redundant given that they did something similar in s3. I also worry that Yara might be captured and turned into new boots for Ramsay.

This is what I thought. It may not be redundant because of Asha and her crew. That is, they do not need to repeat the torture and Ramsay's pursuit. But the only reasonable explanation for this new storyline is to give some time to the Greyjoys, especially Theon, who has really nothing to do in the next season. He is an active and important actor, so they must always give him some material, just like Tyrion.

[MorbidRabbit]

She stays in the North to hunt for Theon, since Ramsay and co. will probably leave the Dreadfort. At some point, she comes across Stannis. Pretty easy.

Yes, this is possible, but this would mean Yara will not do many things for quite a long time. Then she won't become one of the main character : they need her to oppose Euron or her story is ruined.

It really depends if the show runners plan to simplify AFFC and ADWD a lot or not.

If they don't (= something like 2 seasons for these books + battles of Ice and Fire), I think they really need the full Greyjoy story.

Otherwise (= end of S5 is end of AFFC/ADWD), they need to simplify and you're probably right.

[protar]

It's not so simple. It also depends on whether TWOW is released by then. Note, they would need to know the events of the battle by mid-2014, when they begin to start writing and planning the season. We can guarantee that the book won't be out by then.

They also need to take into account all the other arcs, and make sure they have enough time for the Dornish plot(if they include that) and Quentyn's death, plus Daznak's pit, Tyrion's storyline and Aegon's movements. And that's only looking at the Essos side of things.

What they really need for season 5 is more episodes. 12-14 is probably impossible, but I think it's necessary if they want to tell a wholly satisfying story without axing some subplots.

D+D probably already know the events of the Battle of Fire. Hell, we know a good deal about what's going to happen as we already have 3 sample chapters from the battle/build up. And in any case the actual strategies of the battles are one of the first things to go, so it's a moot point anyway.

Dany's storyline can easily be designed so that she takes off on Drogon in E6 or 7, especially if they move some of her ADWD material to S4 (Which they could do if they wanted.). Quentyn can just appear at Meereen/Yunkai in S5 E1 without any travelling. Tyrion's arc is more difficult but at the same time he doesn't have to be in Slaver's Bay at the same time Dany flies off. Just so long as he's at the battle.

I believe a one-off, 12 episode season for season 5 is possible. If they move the show into the summer spot that gives them an extra few months for one season to get in a couple extra episodes. From then on though they're back to 10 months between seasons and 10 episodes per season.

[toffeejay]

Interesting. I could see this happening. They need someone to fill Wex's role, now that Wex in the show was probably flayed alive by Ramsay along with the other ironmen who followed Theon.

Maybe not, after all was Wex not thought dead for three books until turning up again?

[Weeping Sore]

I don't think we are going to see a Kingsmoot.

I agree. I think on the show "the Ironborn do as they please" has been their established MO. So Yara telling Balon to fuck off and going to save Theon fits, as would Euron showing up and claiming the Seastone chair.

Yara will have her followers, but the majority will follow Euron. I'm holding out hope that they still cast Victarion, but we can't be too certain at this point.

['96Buck]

I suspect the first time Asha's ship puts in for supplies or to raid a helpless merchantman (they can't carry enough water to get around Dorne and back up), they will find out Balon is dead and about-face.

I don't see a bunch of vikings turning into castle-cracking commandos on a SEAL raid. One of the primary purposes of a castle is to keep the lord's person safe, even against "Black Ops", and with the North pissed about the RW, the Dreadfort is much more apt to be on high alert than low. I don't think Asha's going to get anywhere NEAR the Dreadfort before she returns. Probably never even clear Oldtown.

Plus, she needs to be AWAY from the Dreadfort to be in the path of Stannis and the Flints (et al) after the Kingsmoot, anyway. I think they have to leave in Lord Commander Snow telling King Stannis not to attack the Dreadfort since it's a trap. Jon's correct strategic reads of the situation are a big piece of story arc, both for him personally and for driving the plot of the NW taking sides.

Since the cheapest way to get her to turn around would be for a little piracy to inform her of King Balon's death, that's what I predict.

['96Buck]

Quick question, during the scene with Yara there was a specific Ironborn shown with a big beard and a scar above his eye. He is first seen when Asha (Yara) states that she is taking the 50 best men and it pans to him (26:43 on Hbogo). He is then seen following Yara on the boat, almost as if he is her second. I know that this is probably just an extra, but the show has inserted some extras that are named characters from the books (e.g. Maege Mormont, Gerald Glover, Bowen Marsh, Chella, Timett, etc.). I have been trying to figure out who this is amongst Asha (Yara)'s crew and if this person has any basis from the novels. I was wondering if any of you could help me figure this out. Here is the crew listing of the Black Wind from the novels:

Corm

http://awoiaf.wester...index.php/Cromm

No physical description

Droopeye Dale

http://awoiaf.wester...p/Droopeye_Dale

No physical description

Eerl Harlaw

http://awoiaf.wester...php/Eerl_Harlaw

No physical description

Fingers

http://awoiaf.wester...ingers_(Ironman)

No physical description

Grimtongue

http://awoiaf.wester....php/Grimtongue

No physical description

Hagen the Horn

http://awoiaf.wester...index.php/Hagen

No physical description

Harl "Six-toed Harl"

http://awoiaf.wester.../index.php/Harl

No physical description

Lorren Longaxe

http://awoiaf.wester.../Lorren_Longaxe

No physical description

Qarl the Maid

http://awoiaf.wester.../index.php/Qarl

He is beardless. I'm thinking it can't be him.

Rogon Rustbeard

http://awoiaf.wester...oggon_Rustbeard

He has a huge red beard.

Rolfe the Dwarf

http://awoiaf.wester...Rolfe_The_Dwarf

He is a head taller than anyone on her crew.

Rook

http://awoiaf.wester.../index.php/Rook

No physical description

Characters listed as Asha's supporters at the Kingsmoot:

Baelor Blacktyde

http://awoiaf.wester...aelor_Blacktyde

He is smooth-faced and handsome. I don't think this fits.

Harmund Sharp

http://awoiaf.wester...p/Harmund_Sharp

No physical description

Harras Harlaw

http://awoiaf.wester...p/Harras_Harlaw

He is tall with a long face and is austere and bears the Valyrian steel sword, Nightfall. Thought this character was shown with an axe, I believe.

Meldred Merlyn

http://awoiaf.wester.../Meldred_Merlyn

He is a bald fat man. Does not fit.

Rodrik Harlaw

http://awoiaf.wester...p/Rodrik_Harlaw

An average-looking man, Rodrik has brown hair and eyes and a short, neat beard that is grey. He has requested a Myrish lense to assist with his vision. There is no way he's the Reader.

Tristifer Botley

http://awoiaf.wester...ristifer_Botley

He has messy hair and large eyes. He is handsome. I don't think this description fits.

Here is a screen capture form the episode:

http://i11.photobuck...zps9f310d75.png

-Edit- I see that there has been some discussion of this character; however, my post still applies.

Hopefully, someone can figure it out. Of course, he may just be some extra without any literary basis.

My guess is that even if he has one of the names above, he will be more of a composite character. Probably highborn (such as it is among the Ironborn) but a cadet branch or later son...someone relevant in the politics of the Kingsmoot, but not overwhelming. A Harlaw or Botley seems like the easy way to go, but they could go pure new, like with Talisa.

[Nezzer]

What they might do with Theon is have Yara rescue him. As they're running to safety, Yara gets away, but Theon is captured by Ramsay, and they reveal that Ramsay wanted Theon to try and escape, just so that he had the pleasure of crushing his hope. Theon is then taken back to the Dreadfort and tortured offscreen while Yara gets away.

I'm just worried that this might be a bit redundant given that they did something similar in s3. I also worry that Yara might be captured and turned into new boots for Ramsay.

Or maybe that ironman with the scarred eye the camera focused on is going to infiltrate the Dreadfort alone, find Theon and say to him "Your sister sent me". Theon will think it's just another game and call Ramsay, blowing the ironman's cover. That would be fun.

[Colonel Green]

I suspect the first time Asha's ship puts in for supplies or to raid a helpless merchantman (they can't carry enough water to get around Dorne and back up), they will find out Balon is dead and about-face.

I don't see a bunch of vikings turning into castle-cracking commandos on a SEAL raid. One of the primary purposes of a castle is to keep the lord's person safe, even against "Black Ops", and with the North pissed about the RW, the Dreadfort is much more apt to be on high alert than low. I don't think Asha's going to get anywhere NEAR the Dreadfort before she returns. Probably never even clear Oldtown.

Plus, she needs to be AWAY from the Dreadfort to be in the path of Stannis and the Flints (et al) after the Kingsmoot, anyway. I think they have to leave in Lord Commander Snow telling King Stannis not to attack the Dreadfort since it's a trap. Jon's correct strategic reads of the situation are a big piece of story arc, both for him personally and for driving the plot of the NW taking sides.

They wouldn't bother sending Yara to the Dreadfort just to have her turn around. They'd have left her on the Iron Islands. She's going to go to the Dreadfort to try and rescue Theon; the show has to follow through on that.

You're assuming that the events in the North play out like the books, when there's no particular reason they have to. Stannis and Yara could cross paths in any number of ways.

[JCrowley90]

Not sure why so many folks are getting caught up on the scar-eyed Ironborn guy. He was just an extra, focused on briefly because he had a character face and was made up to show how grizzled and dangerous-looking the "fifty best killers on the Iron Islands" are.

[Boi]

The threads don't weave in place, how will the eventual picture? They don't attack the Reach, they don't attack Yunkai? Infact Vikings aren't really historically that popular. Supposing that they didn't take Moat Cailin, because of no Kingsmoot? Asha waits for Stannis in Torhen Square. Theon reeks up some more digits, but no Jeyne Poole to bark at.

No plot, possibly they will appear via the teleporting sausage.......... 50 hard men can bring it back.

[jmk51]

Methinks Balon and Joffrey will kick the bucket in the same episode next season. If both Robb and Balon die after Melisandre's blood magic, the shock of Joff's sudden death will not be as strong.

The Greyjoy brothers and the Kingsmoot are obviously going to be put off until a hypothetical season 5, once Ashayara has returned from her failed rescue attempt and her father's taken the big plunge.

Not sure where I sit on the prospect of them pulling another season's worth of storyline out of their ass, even if Asha was one of my favourite book characters and I rather like the actress.

I think this is correct - you can't kill Balon "way" before the PW, otherwise people will piece together that Joff is about to be off'd as well. I think they kill Balon immediately after Joff in the same episode (with a shadowy faceless man-type person) or the next episode. The surprise factor of the PW is too juicy a plotline.

I also think the King's moot is vastly cut, if not completely eliminated. Without knowing exactly what happens, it really just seems that you need Vicatron with a fleet of ships (and a horn?) sailing towards Dany.