[No Spoilers] EP310 Discussion

[KvotheKingkiller]

Can anyone explain why it took so long for Melisandre to see the White Walker threat? More importantly, how did this somehow slip past the all powerful lord of light? Seems kind of hard to swallow that she never knew this and now Stannis is suddenly willing to throw away his quest for the throne and head up north to fight zombies. Is there an explanation or is this just a plot hole (no spoilers please)?

I think the wall blocks magic. Blocks her ability to see North of it.

[Alizard Pyre]

I don't think Sandor will turn "Evil". He's done with the Lannisters and will not, IMO, seek them again. Mostly because they could hang him for treason.

He's a killer, but not a sadistic man like Ramsay and I think he's quite fascinated by Arya. He let her throw hard words at his face, and that's because he sees what she's becoming. He likes it, meeting another killer who doesn't lie to herself. You could see in many dialogs before that he was keen on reminding people they had a dark side too. How I see it is that Sandor respects Arya for feeding her dark side shamelessly.

His line "Next time, tell me" is just great. He will 100% let her kill as she likes.

I was thrilled with every scene and I thoroughly enjoyed this episode from beginning to end.

[Gendels Children]

Can anyone explain why it took so long for Melisandre to see the White Walker threat? More importantly, how did this somehow slip past the all powerful lord of light? Seems kind of hard to swallow that she never knew this and now Stannis is suddenly willing to throw away his quest for the throne and head up north to fight zombies. Is there an explanation or is this just a plot hole (no spoilers please)?

well she cant choose what she sees only what LOL shows her, even then its up to her to interpret it correctly. its possible she had been seeing visions of the Wights/Others but didn't understand where this was taking place and when, she could easily have mistaken it for something happening in the future. as well as, like someone replied earlier, I think the Wall its self makes it hard for her magic to reach it, the North belongs to the Old Gods. also regarding Stannis, he is very much all about duty, he feels he is the true King of the Iron Throne and Westeros so its his duty to protect it and its people (he seems to be the only king right now who remembers that is a part of the job), also at this point his quest really wasn't going anywhere, he was just sulking in DragonStone after the battle of the Blackwater, and his men were getting restless and probably starting to lose faith in him since he hasn't done anything for a while. everything Melisandre has been saying this whole time, about Stannis being the chosen one (Azor Ahai) and being the only defence against the coming darkness does fit in quite well with the notion of him fighting 'Wightwalkers'. the whole idea of him considering heading North isn't that farfetched when you have a better understanding of these characters, which can be hard given we don't get too much time with them each episode, but I hope that help you understand a bit better :)

[Arrow]

I think the wall blocks magic. Blocks her ability to see North of it.

I'd wondered about that myself. I think you're right about that.

---------------

Others have made comments about the brief reunion scene with Jaime and Cersei - I tend to think that spending time with a woman of Brienne's quality - she's compassionate, honest, loyal, and ethical - will provide a huge contrast for him to Cersei's lies, cruelty, and alternating passive-aggressive and aggressive-aggressive behaviors. I really believe that he will find Cersei wanting in character and I would bet money their relationship will have lots of trouble in the future.

We all recognize that Clegane and Arya have great chemistry on-screen - the producers would be foolish not to mine that for a while longer. He says he wants money for ransom, but I think he's growing fond of her. Arya, however, could probably kill him at the drop of a hat. Seeing Robb/Wind probably was the final straw for her. She said 'Valor Morghoulis" after killing the man who supposedly desecrated Robb's body - maybe it's her mantra now - all men must die. She's taken it to heart and is now an assassin awaiting training. She's gone to the dark side, which has likely been her destiny from the very beginning.

I have to agree with what someone else said, Roose Bolton is a very dangerous man, and so is his son Ramsey. I have to wonder what the outcome would be if Bolton ever went up against Tywin Lannister. Now that would be a battle of titans.

Poor Jon Snow sounded like he was on the ragged edge of exhaustion even before Ygritte shot him. He just wanted to go home, poor guy. I'm so glad he's back with Pip and Sam. (Sounds like I'm talking about LOTR!)

One thing this episode succeeded in doing was to get everyone who lives south of the Wall to wake up and look Northward and realize what's going on. They're starting to realize the truth of what Mel said, that the wars between five kings mean nothing.

Dark days ahead - winter is coming.

[jakelamotta]

It would make no sense to sell Arya to the Lannisters, for what they know all Stark men are dead and hence the house Stark is erradicated so I don't see what value Arya would have to them other than the sadistic Joffrey enjoying killing her.

The Starks still has loyal friends in the north though and it might be there they are heading next but as I already mentioned I get the feeling Arya wanna go to braavos or at least once again come in contact with the faceless men. Her last scene in this episode is a strong indication to that.

[silentwanderer]

It would make no sense to sell Arya to the Lannisters, for what they know all Stark men are dead and hence the house Stark is erradicated so I don't see what value Arya would have to them other than the sadistic Joffrey enjoying killing her.

The Hound said so himself: f*ck Joffrey, f*ck the Queen.

He wouldn't sell Arya to the Lannisters for all the gold in Westeros. Even if that means there's no one to sell her to at this point.

Edited June 14, 2013 by silentwanderer

[Gendels Children]

The Hound said so himself: f*ck Joffrey, f*ck the Queen.

He wouldn't sell Arya to the Lannisters for all the gold in Westeros. Even if that means there's no one to sell her to at this point.

agreed,

It would make no sense to sell Arya to the Lannisters, for what they know all Stark men are dead and hence the house Stark is erradicated so I don't see what value Arya would have to them other than the sadistic Joffrey enjoying killing her.

also there is lots of value in a stark child, girl or boy, the Starks are a hugely respected family, especially in the north, whether some of them are dead or not. many people still believe the stark are entitled to the north, they would all be thinking of Sansa and Arya as heirs to Robb now hes dead. just because they are female doesn't cut them out of the line of succession and make the Stark line non existent

Edited June 17, 2013 by Kissed~by~Fire

[MockingbirdSpider]

Yeah, of course you're right; I didn't consider Sandor's attitude towards the Lannisters when I wrote that he might sell her to them. See, that's why I left this storyline out of my initial predictions for season 4... It's the only story arch where I pretty much have no clue whatsoever what's gonna happen next. Of course my other predictions are mere guesses as well, but I can't even dare to guess how the Arya-Hound story might continue, which is why it to me feels especially exciting.

[jakelamotta]

also there is lots of value in a stark child, girl or boy, the Starks are a hugely respected family, especially in the north, whether some of them are dead or not. many people still believe the stark are entitled to the north, they would all be thinking of Sansa and Arya as heirs to Robb now hes dead. just because they are female doesn't cut them out of the line of succession and make the Stark line non existent

Yes of course I just meant that she is of little value to the Lannisters (for what they know the Stark lineage is wiped out), I still assume she would get protection at house Umber at least and probably also most other smaller houses as I assume what Frey and Boltons did here wont be forgotten easily by the northern houses. Given I havent read the book I lack the indepth knowledge about the finer details here.

Can some bookreader shed the light on the following question, I cant see it being a spoiler, Ive read somewhere that Bran's storyline for book 3 now is concluded. Is that true? And if so I assume season 4 will be some sort of mix between end of book 3 and beginning of book 4?

Also some speculation, if the White walkers are magically blocked out of Westeros by the wall. How the hell are they a threat? Maybe I underestimate them here but it also seems that there is a huge descrepancy in power between the threat from beyond the narrow sea (dany) and the threat from beyond the wall (the white walkers). Overall I kinda feel the dragons are overpowered but on the other hand they were killed once so they can be killed again.

[ExBruinsFan]

Yes of course I just meant that she is of little value to the Lannisters (for what they know the Stark lineage is wiped out), I still assume she would get protection at house Umber at least and probably also most other smaller houses as I assume what Frey and Boltons did here wont be forgotten easily by the northern houses. Given I havent read the book I lack the indepth knowledge about the finer details here.

Can some bookreader shed the light on the following question, I cant see it being a spoiler, Ive read somewhere that Bran's storyline for book 3 now is concluded. Is that true? And if so I assume season 4 will be some sort of mix between end of book 3 and beginning of book 4?

Also some speculation, if the White walkers are magically blocked out of Westeros by the wall. How the hell are they a threat? Maybe I underestimate them here but it also seems that there is a huge descrepancy in power between the threat from beyond the narrow sea (dany) and the threat from beyond the wall (the white walkers). Overall I kinda feel the dragons are overpowered but on the other hand they were killed once so they can be killed again.

ANYONE can be killed.

The dragons are only a threat to those who oppose Dany. The White Walkers are a threat to everything which lives.

I do agree that from what the show has revealed so far, the dragons ought to annihilate the undead army. Dragonglass, Valyrian (dragon forged) steel, and fire have all been shown/implied to be strong against the wights and walkers. Even giants look overmatched by something that can fly and kill from range.

Edited June 17, 2013 by ExBruinsFan

[Arrow]

I hardly know what to do with myself on Sunday nights now!

[silentwanderer]

Yes of course I just meant that she is of little value to the Lannisters (for what they know the Stark lineage is wiped out),...

I think the Lannister are of little value to her, to be honest.

Arya strikes me a lot like one of those soldiers from WWII that keep watching the people they care about being taken away (Syrio, Ned, Sansa, Yoren, Jaqen, Hot Pie, Gendry, Robb, Catelyn and so on), until the point they refuse to care about anyone that could get hurt or killed on their watch.

Aside killing Joffrey or Cersei, Arya doesn't have time for any Lannister at this point. I doubt she remembers Tyrion or Jaime even exists and, if it weren't for Harrenhal, she sure would've forgotten about Tywin by now.

Edited June 20, 2013 by silentwanderer

[Phaing]

What, so the entire Army of the North was annihilated at one wedding party?

Meh, okay, at least ol' Catlin Stark if finally out of my mystery. Couldn't stand that character or the actress.

Hey, before you start in, what the hell are we watching here? Its a death-fest from the word "go", so why not enjoy it as it was intended?

The Iron-born can go anywhere they want and do anything at all in the (formerly) formidable North, so I see no problem with 50 of them smashing the House of the insane torturers. Who knows, maybe this newly sympathetic Greyjoy will be the next Measter or King of everything, eh?

I mean, really, what the fuck?

Well... at least Stannis is doing the right thing.

I'd have supported him from the start, he's about the only non-Stark that isn't an out & out scumbag from hell. As such I thought he'd be dead by now, but I'd ride with him anyway. Wait and see how the rest of them blow-off the warning from the wall.

As for the other interesting part of all this; Dani is still going strong. She could build an empire right there where she is, a good one, and live beautifully ever-after. But no... on to the filth of Westeros and the inevitable tragedy that awaits her there.

Right?

I gave up trying to read the books, after watching the series they are much too long and dreary. So, just guessing here, but after the last 2 episodes certain things become clear;

Winter might still be coming.

John Snow is the dumbest Bastard that ever lived.

Arya will lead her family back to ice-bound prominence, once everyone else is dead.

After 8,000 years of preparation and planning, the Others will make some obvious mistake and blow it.

Dani will save the world (hopefully after everyone in Westeros over the age of 20 is dead) and then get knifed in the back for her troubles, probably by Tyrion or Sansa.

Oh well, at least the first 2 seasons were good.

[Rhogantis]

I think anybody that has not read the books should find out upto where you would like to read upto and do so... you will see how much was left from the show.... i love the show, best thing ive watched.... theres no harm in seeing what else was in the storylines.

[boojam]

What, so the entire Army of the North was annihilated at one wedding party?

Meh, okay, at least ol' Catlin Stark if finally out of my mystery. Couldn't stand that character or the actress.

Hey, before you start in, what the hell are we watching here? Its a death-fest from the word "go", so why not enjoy it as it was intended?

I could never figure that out either in the books. Robb had had enough successes to have strategic land he needed to hold, so you can't take whole freaking army to a party , there should have been large enough detachments holding those positions.

I think we have never figured out the size of Robb's army , seems not only would a lot not be at the Twins but a lot would have gotten away. George has bigger fish to fry than logistics, it seems.

The Iron-born can go anywhere they want and do anything at all in the (formerly) formidable North, so I see no problem with 50 of them smashing the House of the insane torturers. Who knows, maybe this newly sympathetic Greyjoy will be the next Measter or King of everything, eh?

I mean, really, what the fuck?

Now that is a show invention. Roose not leave enough men to guard The Dreadfort? , like Robb did with Winterfell?

I don't know where that Asha/Yara story is going next year, if I had to guess she is going to be detoured back to Pyke.

I don't know , it's a goofy development, they may be able to invent their way out of Jamie making back to KL before PW ... but this Ironborn thing is strange.

Edited June 23, 2013 by boojam

[silentwanderer]

What, so the entire Army of the North was annihilated at one wedding party?

At least the entire part of the Army that remained loyal to the King in the North.

Remember: Robb Stark had already lost big chunks of his army when Karstark's men left him, Edmure won a mill losing half his men, Bolton's men chose to play for the other side, Robb chose to marry a foreign girl from Volantis and so on.

There were still enough men in the north for an army, they just weren't fighting for Robb's army anymore.

Edited June 23, 2013 by silentwanderer

[King in the Caribbean]

It would make no sense to sell Arya to the Lannisters, for what they know all Stark men are dead and hence the house Stark is erradicated so I don't see what value Arya...

Well, I highly doubt The Hound is gonna take her to the Lannisters. I think thats not happening. BUT Arya still has lots of value being a Stark. Why does Tywin said and wanted to marry Tyrion w/ Sansa? "You got a lovely girl w/ a pretty face and a NICE name..." <-- that, to impregnate her and make their Lannisters childs Lords of Winterfell.

Even Cersei knows the value of Arya. He asked Littlefinger about her whereabouts. They all think Bran and Rickon are dead and Jon is a bastard and member of the Watch. In case Sansa dies, there is still another Stark -heir to Winterfell- running wild in Westeros. If they can get a hold of Arya they'll close the loop, preventing her from marrying another guy and having future heirs -other than Lannisters- to Winterfell.

Arya has LOTS of value being a Stark.

[silentwanderer]

Arya has value should a Lannister marries her to ensure Winterfell. And I doubt the Hound would let them, even if the only Lannisters left are Jaime and Lancel. She's safe for the moment.

Edited July 8, 2013 by silentwanderer

[echidna]

I wish they'd ended with the Stannis scene, it would have had more impact than Dany's dragons. Also, I suspect a scene was held over from ep 9, which is why 9 was short and 10 long.

Arya will be interesting on her trip with Uncle Hound. She is valuable but she also won't co-operate with anyone as she's rarely done that so far

[Djinn]

So let me see if i got it strait: Melisamdre thinks that sacrificing Gendry(because of his king's blood) will give Stannis victory over his enemies. Stannis and Davos are not sure about it, and convince her to perform a test,in which three leeches are filled with Gendry's king's blood and sacrificed along with the names of Stannis enemies. The point being that is the king's blood actually works, something will happen to these three people(Robb, Balon and Joffrey). Once the news of Robb's death arrives, instead of waiting for the effects of the other two leeches to present themselves(and rule out the possibility of coincidence), Stannis decides to sacrifice Gendry without the confirmation of the test he himself devised.

Now if he believes that king's blood sacrifice works, why not keep Gendry alive and use the leech method to undermined his enemies. If he doesn't believe, why not wait for the test to be prove wrong? His motivations, beliefs and methodology seem to shift without explanation between the scenes. Is it just me or there's somewhat of a disconection between this sequence?