[Book Spoilers] EP310 Discussion

[Red Raven]

When Dany was lifted up and carried around on the people's shoulders, the actor playing Jorah had an incredible look on his face during his close-up. He really acted the hell out of that moment.

[wandering_lady_Stark]

No UnCat? No coldhands? no wedding? No Victarion? wtf did I just watch

[Tyrion_the_Oneironaut]

No UnCat? No coldhands? no wedding? No Victarion? wtf did I just watch

People will tell you that there needs to be exactly one calendar year between Catelyn's death and her return(god knows why).

She'd been dead for 60 minutes of screen time. That's like seemingly killing off a character in one movie, then having them come back halfway through the next film.

No impact my arse.

[wandering_lady_Stark]

Is it me, or that last scene with Dany felt... Odd? I mean, it's kinda like they only included it there because they had to have Dany on it. It looked kinda... Out of place.

I agree a 100%, it felt almost, forced..

[crazibouncer]

LIKES

- Bran scenes and Sam scenes

- Jon and Ygritte scene was alright, Jon getting back to Castle Black was great

- I enjoyed the Walder/Bolton scene

- Small council scene was great!

- Davos/Gendry scene in dungeon

- REEK!

- Hound and Arya are always fun

- Asha/Balon was ok. I have no clue when they are going to decide to kill Balon though. Also 50 men to storm the Dreadfort? Sounds like a bad plan.

DISLIKES

- Dany scene, not too great, and I was expecting LS so that made it more disappointing.

- Stannis/Davos/Mel scene. I haven't minded the show Stannis portrayal until this scene.

- No Coldhands or magical gate

NOT SURE

- Varys and Shae. I liked the scene itself but I am not sure how it will end up affecting future events.

[TheAwesomeVargoHoat]

I thought the season finale, like last weeks episode was weak. I don't think it's just the changes to the books but rather that D&D seem to be rather weak writers when it comes to coming up with original material. For example IMO the Robb/Talisa romance arc was bad from season 2 to season 3 with not one redeemable scene.

To start it off I was expecting Lady Stoneheart, it was obviously the best ending to this season, and thinking back on I'm pretty sure D&D would agree. After everybody getting pissed off at the Red Wedding they needed something to cheer them up, Danys scene didn't fill that hole, in fact Dracarys was far superior to this Mhysa scene we got, maybe if it happened in the same episode that Dany took Yunkai it would matter more, but it just seemed out of place.

I did like Sam/Bran scene, though without Coldhands and the Weirwood door it just wasn't as good as it should have been. It seems to me that D&D just hate the Old Gods, Weirwoods are lacking, going back to Robbs wedding last season.

The one thing I do like better than the books is Jaime coming back before the wedding. With the right writing, Jaime/Joffrey, Jaime/Tyrion, Jaime/Oberyn should all be gold.

[Ser Creighton]

Bran's story has been totally flipped and makes no sense. Without Coldhands helping Sam and sending him for Bran, it makes no sense for Sam to be just like "ok then good luck storming the Others, here is an Obsidian dagger have fun." And Bran is now suddenly out to stop the Others, when they hell did that happen? He knows only he can stop them? WTF is that about? In the books he had a couple of cryptic visions but not on the show. On the show they were running to the wall, then to go beyond the wall to find the 3 eyed crow. And what the hell is sam doing letting a cripple, 2 kids and a simpleton go north. With Coldhands it was understandable, but without him it's just like WTF, plus he made no promise not to tell Jon. It was just ok you go do that here is the exit, the big hole in the wall, have fun I think I won't tell Aemon about this. Cause they are the hero's after all when a bunch of kids tell you they are going to go do something life threatening you help them do it. Cause kids always know the secret truth. Adolesent teens more than anyone, I mean come on.

[The Ghost of Winter]

The ending was ridiculous.

Last two seasons we got supernatural stuff going on, mystery, wonder. This time though... Giant circle of brown people holding up the white queen!

Looked like a rookie rockstar crowd surfing...

[fuseprime]

I liked the ending. I was expecting a lot more to happen this season, so now my thinking is that season 4 is just going to explode. I am also a HUGE fan of Jamie coming back BEFORE the Purple Wedding. I don't know how they'll write him in, but I'm excited nonetheless.

[Zman1863]

Im glad that Im not the only one that believes that the final scene was kind of a Red herring: some viewrs said well Danny is the savior, but iby the way she is lifted, her expression and Jorah's IMHO they are starting to show her fall into the megalomaniac.

It's a red herring because they made a resolution moment out of one where there is no resolution in the books. ASOS doesn't end for Dany until she has conquered Meereen and resolves to stay for a while. Nothing new happened in this episode except that civilian slaves decided to follow her in a more corny and less stirring way than the unsullied soldiers deciding to follow her in episode 4.

But I don't see D&D pointing toward a "Dany is crazy and was/is wrong to fight for the slaves for the next 2 plus seasons". If you are going to use to show to predict GRRM's end game for Dany I would think this episode says the opposite of her being a nut job.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Why was the Sansa and sheep 'shift' dumb? Because it wasn't directly advancing the plot and it wasn't actiony? It wasn't a line from the books?

It was showing how for a moment she was getting comfortable right before the news hit about the RW. It also contrasts her situation with the Arya scene we saw right before.

It's characterization.

Agreed. Plus it shows that Sansa could probably make it work and sorta foreshadows her future with Littlefinger. But the moment is completely dashed the next time the two are on screen together. Its very clear that now, Sansa doesnt want anything at all to do with her husband.

[Tyrion_the_Oneironaut]

Is it just me or has there been a lot of unintentional comedy at Dragonstone this year? Between Stannis practically running from Shereen to Melisandre doing a 180 after Davos gives the NW letter, they've both been pretty damn silly this year.

"You know what? Forget what I just said, Stannis. Screw this 5 King thing, baby. That's old hat. You need to get to the Wall and defend all of humanity. Gogogo!"

Should have been more of a 'finally the prophecy is being fulfilled' type realization. Can't tell who makes me cringe more betwen Mel and Shae.

[Jasta11]

Oh my lord that ending was a cheesefest. I have heard that the producers had a hard-on for Dany and dismissed it, but it's kinda hard to argue now that the only bad things that happened to her in book 3 (the bloody aftermath of the Sack of Astapor and the slaughter of anyone wearing a tohkar) have been swept under the rug and that she's played up as the (white) messiah figure that liberates the (black) oppressed masses. Ugh. Worst season finale of the series by a country mile. I know they wanted something a bit more uplifting after last episode but that was just awful.

I wasn't expecting LS, since that happens at the very end of book 3. They should at least have mentioned Cat's body being dumped into the river as foreshadowing. But since it wasn't shown I assume they keep it for Season 4.

The RW's aftermath made for great scenes. RobbWind was really, really gruesome, and they made Arya watch to boot. I loved Roose and Walder's interaction, but my favourite part was the camera cutting straight to Walder right after Bran tells the story of the Rat Cook. Perfect juxtaposition.

The Small Council meetings are hella short in the show are they? Weird to see Joffrey growing some balls, but I loved the Tyrion-Tywin chat after. Nice to see Tywin is not the supervillain he sometimes is in the books and the relashionship with his son is less black-and-white.

Also kinda weird to see Tyrion and Sansa happily chat. I guess they wanted to play up how cold she would be after the RW.

Show!Shae didn't bother me, but they take it a bit too far. Twue Wuv means she refuses a big bribe from Varys to stay with him? How the hell are they going to plug in her betrayal (which I'm sure is coming, we saw the chain dammit) now?

Arya's scene was awesome. She goes so well with Sandor, I hope they get many more scenes together.

People complain about Stannis, but apart from ordering Davos's death (it is treason after all...) I don't see character assassination. he should definitely not immediately jump on the Melissandre bandwagon as quickly, however. She looks too much in control. IIRC he threatrens her in the books. So I guess he does appear weaker. But I,d wait to see if the trends continue in Season 4 before breaking out torches and pitchforks.

Ygritte sure runs hella fast now doesn't she? And three arrows, damn. Women scorned eh?

Yara's gonna take the second best fortified castle in the North with 50 men? I wish her luck I guess. I mean, it was a nice moment of her, but when you think of the logistics, well...

I loved the Reek scene. I thought the reveal was well handled, and Ramsay's actor is quite simply perfect. Poor Theon.

So a decent episode, some great moment, some not so great moment, and a dreadful final scene for anyone that isin't a die-hard Dany fan. Expected better for the season finale honestly.

[Tyrion_is_Omar]

It's a red herring because they made a resolution moment out of one where there is no resolution in the books. ASOS doesn't end for Dany until she has conquered Meereen and resolves to stay for a while. Nothing new happened in this episode except that civilian slaves decided to follow her in a more corny and less stirring way than the unsullied soldiers deciding to follow her in episode 4.

But I don't see D&D pointing toward a "Dany is crazy and was/is wrong to fight for the slaves for the next 2 plus seasons". If you are going to use to show to predict GRRM's end game for Dany I would think this episode says the opposite of her being a nut job.

I not saying that D&D are saying that is wrong fight for the slaves, but the way that she is assuming her victories, IMHO, is telling. She is starting to like be worship and that always is a dangerous thing. And I think that they are starting to portray that.

[UncertainPerson]

It would have been WAY TOO EARLY for Lady Stoneheart. You have to let it fully sink in that Cat is dead.

I was disappointed in the lack of a cliffhanger ending but I didn't find the ending to be "cheesy"

Just because it's not super dark or intense and it's a happy scene that gives hope doesn't make it cheesy.

Let's not be too disappointed in Season 3. There are about 5-6 HUGE EVENTS (thats what I consider them) near the end of Book 3 and we have only witnessed 1 of them so far

so far I would rate all 3 seasons

Season 1: 9.8/10

Season 2: 8.7/10

Season 3: 9.2/10

[Mladen]

She'd been dead for 60 minutes of screen time. That's like seemingly killing off a character in one movie, then having them come back halfway through the next film.

Ummm... As I recall that has been done in LOTR, with Gandalf :)

There was no closure. Every scene needed like a line extra to be finished. The season doesn`t seem rounded enough. I liked Asha, Small Council, mutiliation of Robb`s body (wicked, but I liked it somehow). Strangely, Jon`s storyarc was complete and epic failure. I mean, if it`s not funny, it would be sad... As for Dany, I liked the music, nothing more... Sansa, oh Sansa, my dear Sansa... another epic failure. You would think we would see someone telling her, or at least her telling some great line about her family. But, no, we saw her crying... Obviously they thought it`s enough. Arya was so cool, and Theon was again boring. I honestly don`t see how anyone spread his storyarc on 6 episodes (IIRC), but they did it. I enjoyed seeing Maester Aemon and Greyjoys back, as also Jaime. I thought Cersei`s engagement would end once Jaime is back, but we got only one word from him. Varys was enjoyment, especially with Joffrey. His face was changing in such manner I liked it so much...

All in all, not bad, but far from the season finale in which we saw Dracarys action and RW. It should have been better...

[Jdawg Laurence]

A very interesting ending. A leader who isn't afraid to be with her people is a great leader indeed, but Dany almost looked like she was going slightly crazy there when she was lifted up... and then you see the people raising their arms to her as they chant a word. Is mhysa Valyrian for heil?

[Honey Badger]

I enjoyed the episode. Lots of set up for next season. I'm hoping D&D do something better than Martin screwing around in Mereen while Dany becomes annoying. I think I like Essos more on the show than the books.

Wish they kept Stannis storming the Wall and rescuing them a secret. They spoon feed a little too much on the show instead of surprising people. Wonder if they'll still have the confrontation between the Wall and the wildlings. Ygritte definitely isn't done with Jon. I was bothered with the lack of feathering last episode, so it's cool they brought it back here.

There was a good amount of bad ass this episode. Arya stabbing the shit out of someone's neck. I like that the little serial killer is showing up; she's been a bit too soft on the show. Ramsay eating sausage; YIKES. Loved Yara getting on her boat like a boss to rescue her brother. I knew she cared. Even liked the bit about the Bran group going up North into the light, even though it was the last thing on Westeros they wanted to do.

Dany getting lifted up was a tiny bit cheesy, but I'll reserve judgment. Here's hoping there isn't the Mereenese total fuckup like we see in the books.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Yara's gonna take the second best fortified castle in the North with 50 men? I wish her luck I guess. I mean, it was a nice moment of her, but when you think of the logistics, well...

It runs in the family....

[Jon Black]

LIKES

- Bran scenes and Sam scenes

- Jon and Ygritte scene was alright, Jon getting back to Castle Black was great

- I enjoyed the Walder/Bolton scene

- Small council scene was great!

- Davos/Gendry scene in dungeon

- REEK!

- Hound and Arya are always fun

- Asha/Balon was ok. I have no clue when they are going to decide to kill Balon though. Also 50 men to storm the Dreadfort? Sounds like a bad plan.

DISLIKES

- Dany scene, not too great, and I was expecting LS so that made it more disappointing.

- Stannis/Davos/Mel scene. I haven't minded the show Stannis portrayal until this scene.

- No Coldhands or magical gate

NOT SURE

- Varys and Shae. I liked the scene itself but I am not sure how it will end up affecting future events.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

The Stannis/Mel/Davos scene was just dreadful. TERRIBLE WRITING.

Nonetheless, I liked it on the whole. A good strong, solid 8, IMHO.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Jon Black