[Book Spoilers] EP310 Discussion

[larsberg]

what an amazing Episode so much powerful scenes.

Small council

Arya and the hound

Even Sansa, wonder how much onions she had cut to get the right look.

And my favorite, Jon and Ygritte. Considering what is going happen to them it almost breaks my hearth. Dam you R.R. Martin :bawl:

It really got me when I red it in the books, more than even the red wedding.

I was wondering all week what they would put at the season final.

Lady Stoneheart reveal? Purple Wedding? Coldhand?

When they showed Danny in front of Yunkai I was disappointed. I thought really, thats your final scene? how boring.

But at the end of it, they totally had me, the big scope, the music, the dragons, final shot, amazing :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

I really really hope they will fix the Mereen storyline in the show.

@ all the people who expected unCAt. I would have loved it too, but in the books she disappears for a very long time and is revealed at the end of the 3rd book. That would make it likely for the end of Season 4

And now our watch begins :eek: (at least for a year)

Edited June 10, 2013 by larsberg

[Minsc]

I was actually fine with the Dany ending. Given the massive shock of the RW for those that haven't read the books, it needed to end on an upbeat note so it's not entirely doom and gloom - which is why you didn't see Balon Greyjoy or Ygritte dying in this episode for example.

I don't see how them killing Balon would make fans full of doom and gloom, especially in how that would mean only Joffrey is left among the leeches to be killed.

[Rashtibram]

It is DRAGONS that will defeat the Others - if they are defeated at all. I can easily see them winning.

Winter is Coming.

[Sephiroth]

I loved the Greyjoy scene. Loved the Bolton/Frey lead into Ramsay scene. Arya is awesome.

I hated Jamie and Cersei's reunion. The Dragonstone scenes felt rushed and to Unsullied fans a bit silly. Worst of all was the ending. I thought the crowdsurfing was laughable.

Saving Coldhands for next season's 1st episode's last scene will serve better. No Stoneheart is an atrocity.

[-Ghost-]

So since there was no CH to save Sam and Gilly, that means there was no promise to not tell Jon that Bran is alive and beyond the Wall. There was also no mention of it while they were together at the Night Fort. So why wouldnt Sam tell Jon now?

[Erkan12]

I don't like the episode, Balon should die long ago (not even same time with RW), and i waited for Joffrey's death but instead we get the great mother 'mhysa' :bs:

Edited June 10, 2013 by Marco

[Moseh Khayim]

I guess THAT is the cliff-hanger? How she reacts? Pretty weak, if so.

Cersei is all about appearances. She was so looking forward to a reunion with her perfect brother. The first thing she saw, was a stump.

What about that last scene with Stannis, Mel and Davos. First Mel urges Stannis to lock him up and have him executed. Davos hands the letter and suddenly he has a role to play? Was that anything like it was in the books?

Edited June 10, 2013 by Moseh Khayim

[jmk51]

Don't really get all the TV-Stannis bashing, but whatever. Still the same plot points. But I thought way too much happened there.

Also the reveal of Stannis going to the wall was interesting. I'm thinking they intentionally avoided another random army showing up to save the day, like blackwater?

The Dany scene was also weird, but they did show her at her apex, as well as visually described this throng of people she now has to travel with.

Always suspected they could leave out coldhands/gate/ironborn as they are cool ook points but don't advance the plot as of yet.

[Greywolf2375]

They should have mentioned Cat's body! Now I'm so worried.

Why? The mother of the king is not nearly as important as the king...anyone at the twins mentioning her body - at that point - is out of place. As far as what the small council learned...well, same thing. They know both Cat and Robb are dead - Robb is the important one again. Not mentioning her body to this point is fine.

[Greywolf2375]

You couldn't be more wrong.

Incorrect, He could have called him a bridge.

[Sword of the Mornin']

There was no laughter, only smiling, which was a natural reaction to being hailed by tens of thousands of slaves as a liberator. I don't think the scene hinted at anything negative about Dany at all. D&D wrote her dialogue to be about as humble as possible for that situation. They just don't view her through the dark prism that so many here want them to.

.....

To the general comments accusing GRRM/D&D of racism or racist undertones, I don't think the people being liberated would view it that way, and their need isn't false to either our history or our present. There are hundreds of millions of "dark-skinned" people across the world who actually need help (no, they are not the only ones, but they have been the primary at some points in history, including now) and would love for someone rich and powerful to save them from oppression and low-wage slavery, even if this helper was white as snow.

The wealthy nations have long had the power to end slavery and world hunger, yet there remain over 15 million slaves and nearly a billion people go to bed hungry every night. Almost half the world lives on $2.50 a day. GRRM created a fictional world resembling our own in how predominantly white people hoard wealth and either exploit people of other ethnicities or turn a blind eye to their suffering. In such a world, it's only realistic that these people need help from people in positions of power. It has nothing to do with race. it's about class. Is Bill Gates a racist symbol for all he's done to help the sick, poor and needy in Africa?

My response to this might be pretty unpopular, but burn away.

I have to say that one of the things that I thought GRRM did very well in the books was not depict Dany's emancipation of Yunkai as a wholly positive act. I think that's one thing a lot of people really like about the series -- nothing is every morally that black and white. In the book there're still driblings of information from Astapor about the freedman butcher who immediately re-enslaved the city, and I distinctly remember Jorah talking about how she has all these new mouths to feed with no source of food. Many go hungry marching to Meereen, and a lot of others die of the Pale Mare in the camps. So does Dany really save them? I don't mean to imply that these people enjoy or are even okay with being slaves, but she cripples the infrastructure and culture of a 10000 year old civilization. Not to mention the devastating effect this has on the local and world economy. From a modern sensibility, slavery is absolutely abhorrent, but it is very difficult to apply modern morality to different cultures, at different times in history, or especially to fictional worlds. People do horrible things all over the world, but many feel that to a certain degree you have to respect these practices as central to other cultures (Genital mutilation in some countries comes to mind). I think that the slaves chanting "Mhysa" is not entirely out of love, but somewhat out of dependence. I don't think freedom comes as easy as striking off chains for the Yunkai -- now these people must learn how to take care of themselves and fill the roles that the now dead upper class filled before (which happens with disastrous results in Astapor) -- and Dany really doesn't give them much help with that, though she does manage to march a few thousand to their deaths. Although D&D might've been burned at the stake for doing that on television, it is certainly an interesting nuance in the novels.

[ExBruinsFan]

My response to this might be pretty unpopular, but burn away.

I have to say that one of the things that I thought GRRM did very well in the books was not depict Dany's emancipation of Yunkai as a wholly positive act. I think that's one thing a lot of people really like about the series -- nothing is every morally that black and white.

Nothing is ever morally WHITE. There is plenty of BLACK. What Ramsey is doing to Theon.

[Bayard]

But the worst was Shae literally throwing away a fortune so she could stay near the super awesome perfect man Tyrion and risk her life every day. WTF?

Yeah, I am pretty sure they will change her death completely. When Tyrion escapes, he learns from Varys that Shae has been murdered on the orders of Tywin, so he decides to kill hist father because of the love for Shae. Sounds horrible?? yes, yes it does. Let the whitewashing continue!!

[ExBruinsFan]

Yeah, I am pretty sure they will change her death completely. When Tyrion escapes, he learns from Varys that Shae has been murdered on the orders of Tywin, so he decides to kill hist father because of the love for Shae. Sounds horrible?? yes, yes it does. Let the whitewashing continue!!

It doesn't sound horrible. Just different.

Not every relationship has to end in betrayal. It gets old, eventually.

[Katydid]

brienne and sansa are both at kings landing

the PW would still be atleast a few days if not more after this.

what would the driving point be behind brienne's search for sansa??

brienne will find out about Catelyn's death and she'll probably meet sansa.

if sansa does escape from KL after the PW what would brienne's motivation be to go after her??

Brienne's motivation will be the same as it is in the book - - find Sansa before Cersei or anyone else does, and keep her safe.

Of all the pointless changes made from book to screen sometimes, I don't believe this one is as catastrophic. Jaime will attend Joffrey's wedding and witness his death (and we'll probably get surprising indifference from him, giving a chance to show how little Jaime thought of his own son), and in the chaos, Sansa will slip away. He won't notice, Brienne may not be in attendance, so Littlefinger will get Sansa away. Tyrion will be accused, and everyone will want to go after Sansa. Jaime will send Brienne.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Katydid

[Mendoza]

Brienne's motivation will be the same as it is in the book - - find Sansa before Cersei or anyone else does, and keep her safe.

Of all the pointless changes made from book to screen sometimes, I don't believe this one is as catastrophic. Jaime will attend Joffrey's wedding and witness his death (and we'll probably get surprising indifference from him, giving a chance to show how little Jaime thought of his own son), and in the chaos, Sansa will slip away. He won't notice, Brienne may not be in attendance, so Littlefinger will get Sansa away. Tyrion will be accused, and everyone will want to go after Sansa. Jaime will send Brienne.

Another way they can play it if they intend to protect Jaime/Brienne's characters at all is Brianne is actually going to sneak Sansa out and Littlefinger offers Sansa door number two. She goes with the devil she knows, so Brianne will think Sansa actually partook in regicide and is on a mission of pure justice for the crown?

[SerArthurHeath]

In the show, Cersei hasn't been cheating on Jaime as flagrantly as in the Book (just Lancel, who has vanished) and she'll struggle to screw Kettleblacks whilst Jaime's in KL. Are they dropping that bit of story?

[Dark_Star]

7-8/10.

This episode started off so strongly, it made the ending kind of stale.

GreyRobb visuals were awesome, more moving than the book imho. In fact, all of the Hound/Arya scenes were great, but how will she get Needle back if they have done away with the Crossroads Inn scene? If I don't get to see some version of this ~>( http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/thumb/0/08/Arya_tickler_by_tribemun.jpg/200px-Arya_tickler_by_tribemun.jpg ) I will be quite sad...

Liam Cunningham's Davos is simply amazing. Any scene with Davos in it, I give a 10/10!

Not seeing LS was kind of disappointing, but I can see how it would be a bit too soon for the reveal. I was almost sure that after the moral of Bran's Rat Cook story we'd at least get a shot of her at the end of the episode.

[SerArthurHeath]

Oh, LS is Lady Stoneheart. It'll come

[victim]

I would have replaced the Shae scene with an Edmure one, but whatever.