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[Book Spoilers] EP310 Discussion

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Agreed. I also forgot to mention Littlefinger shoving Crazy Lysa out the Moon Door. So that totals SIX epic deaths in one season. A record breaker for any show I'm sure.

This year cant pass fast enough....

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Agreed. Season 4 certainly has the potential and the material to be the best season yet. That moon door scene cemented LF as one of my favorite characters.

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While last episode's the red wedding scene of Arya was dissapointing compared to the book, this episode was making up for it. the way she firsts acts sweet and then goes crazy.

That one look Sansa gives Tyrion after she hears the news all contained a couple of sentences in the book about how she now hates all lanisters and all chance they had at a happy marriage is over.

The Varys and Shea conversation was just brilliant knowing what real intentions lord Varys has but it must been borring for non-readers. That is priceless.

The ending was also wow. When it started and became clear that it was the last scene I hated it because it was dany's which already had a season ending and her story is going to be more boring. After the music started however it really give a vibe that contains a lot of things. Her transition from conqueror to queen of the slaver's bay, That she is still very naive, that she is looking for people that worship her and that she is on her top and from here on it will go down.

Overall I liked how unexpected things were. A lot of things were different from the books which I think is great because we are getting a whole new view of things and can be surprised. A lot of negative comments here saying that it was a bad thing the expected things did not happen which I just totally disagree with.

I am also liking something that is happening the past few episodes. the transitions from scene to scene are perfectly matched. bran telling a story about traiters killing their quests and we switch to Walder Frey which talk about Bolton's bastard and we switch to him he then goes on about Theon's use and his manhood and we switch to the Iron Islands. It is funny.

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I think it's harder to have a good cliffhanger when you are only halfway through the book. in the first two season you could go by what the book did, or in season 2, include the very beginning of the 3rd book.

I think for us the book readers it easy to forget how the show looks to the unsullied.

All of my friends, who didn't red the books, are really worried over Jon Snow being shot. After the RW they almost except him to die. For them its a big Cliffhanger.

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The Shae scene was easily the worst of the episode.

Varys would never offer Shae a small fortune to leave. If Varys wants somebody out of the picture, he has them killed. Definitely a wasted 5 minutes and another forced attempt at this pathetic romantic plot with Tyrion.

!!

seriously, wtf was that. Varys is that good at juggling words, he could've easily gone along

the sympathy track by telling Shae that she was only likely to get under the wheels during the

"game of thrones". They have to prepare her treason, no doubt, but unless Varys wants her

to turn against Tyrion (which is unlikely since it would require major alterations (edit: now am unsure, was varys plotting against tyrion?

fuck, I can't remember..)), this wasn't done well.

Also, why not show dead Catelyn in the river, possibly being found by the Brotherhood?

By only showing them retrieving the body, this wouldn't even be a slight spoiler

Edited by Jory Cassel

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Did D&D forget that, as Slaver's Bay receives its slaves from all over the world, its slaves are not all non-white? That scene was embarassing to watch, and it was one of my absolute favourites in the book.

In the books, Dany freed slaves. In the show, she's freed the only non-white people on the show. :bs:

Y'know I was just coming in to say this. It's pretty established in the books that the slaves come from everywhere in the world (even Westeros) so they are of all kinds of races/ethnicities. Dany decides to fight for their freedom because she knows what it's like to be sold. In the show she just swoops in and decides all magnanimously to free the poor unwashed brown people (and they looked like a really uniform bunch, like you couldn't even say some were bedslaves or scribes or the people who did heavy lifting). It's pretty cringeworthy. Of course people are going to say her narrative is white-saviour-like.

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The Shae scene was easily the worst of the episode.

Varys would never offer Shae a small fortune to leave. If Varys wants somebody out of the picture, he has them killed. Definitely a wasted 5 minutes and another forced attempt at this pathetic romantic plot with Tyrion.

HDU it's TRU LOVE

lol

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Just a few things that I also liked in the episode, but missed in my first review:

Tywin's Realpolitik: While the main thrust of his discussions with Tyrion were to remind the audience that he hates Tyrion and always has, Tywin also made a strong point: the House that does best is the House that puts the needs of the family above all else, even the wishes of its children. Tywin didn't just mastermind the Red Wedding and win The War of the Five Kings, Tywin has embedded House Lannister into the very fabric of Westeros. And that includes Tyrion. Tyrion takes the brunt of the "I wanted you dead-talk," but in the end Tywin makes it clear- either do your duty to your family or get out of the family.

Cersei's Child: Cersei's almost unbridled love of Joff has always been on display. But in this episode she crystallized it- for a time, Joff was all she had. Joff was her everything; she hated the man she married, was prisoner to protocol and duty; and so she loved her first child all she could. And as she put it, not even Joff can take that away. The self-realization in Cersei that her child is a monster was exceptional. She knows. She has always known. That child is a monster and she loves that monster.

Other things:

Long post stating a bunch of stuff I disagree with

Cade:

I actually think you delivered a very compelling defense of the final scene; I agree- I didn't find Dany's reaction to be crazy or demented. I thought her reaction seemed genuine and seemed realistic. I just found the entire tone of the scene to be silly, patronizing, and obvious. I think the show runners needed to ned on a positive note so they shoe-honed this scene into the show as a positive ending. I guess I don't know why they did not end with two shlubs sitting atop the Wall and looking down and seeing... every wilding who ever existed ever. At their gate. And angry.

Instead, we had a very heavy-handed and in my eyes paternalistic scene where the white woman comes and saves the dark people. When I read the book (and again, this was probably me) I never got that sense that this was a race-thing. Unfortunately, in seeing the scene, that fact becomes impossible to ignore.

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!!

seriously, wtf was that. Varys is that good at juggling words, he could've easily gone along

the sympathy track by telling Shae that she was only likely to get under the wheels during the

"game of thrones". They have to prepare her treason, no doubt, but unless Varys wants her

to turn against Tyrion (which is unlikely since it would require major alterations (edit: now am unsure, was varys plotting against tyrion?

fuck, I can't remember..)), this wasn't done well.

He wants Tyrion out of KL because he is the only one with power and brains enough that could stop the bloodshedding

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So I guess the shae scene was kind of warranted, because now Shae is under the assumption that Tyrion sent Varys to send her away. So I guess they are really giving her "reasons" to testify against him next season.

Is there going to be a positive nitpick thread?

Edited by mafalda

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So glad they did the wolf head and LOVED the Arya/Hound scene that followed. Never before so happy to see someone get stabbed. And when Sandor asks her if that's the first she's ever killed - ha! Great set up to reveal Arya headed to Bravos.

End scene with Dany and the slaves so cheesy. :ack: Beside, where was Grey Worm? I didn't see him standing on top of that little hill with the rest of Dany's troop.

Really liked the Tyrion/Sansa bonding scene, even though it wasn't in the books. Just loved Tyrion, in all scenes, and Pod - the actor that plays Pod is perfect.

Loved the Sam/Bran scenes and finally a reference to Ghost....Where is he, btw? Disappointed no CH, but I guess it has worked up to this point w/o him. He'll have to be there Season 4 to lead Bran et. al. onward. I guess staging the huge Elk will take a hunk out of the budget, too.

Glad to see the Ramsay reveal...finally! Roose is becoming a very good study for Tywin. Thought it was a scream when Walder Frey asked [about Winterfell], "What happened up there" -- sort of like, "What's up with that?" :lol:

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I thought the season finale was good. However I would have preferred Stannis's plan to head north would be more of surprise like in the books. They should have had Davos show him the letter, Mel taking it from Davos and reading it,end scene. I don't think they needed anything else. Anyone else a little disappointed in the lack of Mance Rayder this season?

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So i'm not totally solid on the chronological order of the third book, but can anyone tell me what Asha's leaving for Theon will do to the king's moot? Doe she also do this in the books and then return home, or does this mean she will be absent for it now? I feel like it'll be hard for the show to sell the greyjoys to the audience if theon, asha and balon are all gone.

Also, does anyone think that Balon will get given a more dramatic death in the show? I loved how simple his death was in the books but the tv audience may not approve...

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Instead, we had a very heavy-handed and in my eyes paternalistic scene where the white woman comes and saves the dark people. When I read the book (and again, this was probably me) I never got that sense that this was a race-thing. Unfortunately, in seeing the scene, that fact becomes impossible to ignore.

People can overanalyze and make this a race thing, as keyboard activist twats tend to do, or face that moroccans are brown, and they weren't going to spend money flying in extras from europe just to make it ethnically appropriate. It's the most minor of all minor details.

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The Shae scene was easily the worst of the episode.

Varys would never offer Shae a small fortune to leave. If Varys wants somebody out of the picture, he has them killed. Definitely a wasted 5 minutes and another forced attempt at this pathetic romantic plot with Tyrion.

Actually I actually thought it fit well with Varys character.

Shae is not highborn. But he wants her out of the way.

Tyrion can dispell the chaos that Varys is creating. Shae can help him do that.

This might be what latter leads to her death.

She should have taken the offer.

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So I guess the shae scene was kind of warranted, because now Shae is under the assumption that Tyrion sent Varys to send her away. So I guess they are really giving her "reasons" to testify against him next season.

Is there going to be a positive nitpick thread?

Yeah, he's sowing the seeds. And we all know he's gotten close to Olenna Tyrell, so he may be in on the PW plans and the attempt to frame Tyrion.

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The Shae scene was easily the worst of the episode.

Varys would never offer Shae a small fortune to leave. If Varys wants somebody out of the picture, he has them killed. Definitely a wasted 5 minutes and another forced attempt at this pathetic romantic plot with Tyrion.

Yeah, he'd murder her ala Kevan Lannister.or my theory, he could remove her from the board by making her fake Arya.

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Here is what I said in the rating topic:

What a horrible episode. They made it so cheesy. The exceptions are:

  • Roose Bolton. This actor nails in and his presence makes every scene better as another villain (like Tywin) that you hate to love, and love to hate.
  • Tywin Lannister. Charles Dance has continually nailed Tywin, and has the exact presence of Tywin Lannister. You feel the power radiating from him.
  • Bran's story of the Rat Cook.
  • Though his scenes aren't the greatest, Ramsay is the same creepy piece of shit that we read about.

Everything else was just cringe-worthy, and at some points I felt like I was watching a soap opera. It hit me hard at first, when Yara gave her speech, and continued for a while after including (just off the top of my head):

  • Jaime's return to King's Landing.
  • Varys and Shae.
  • Tyrion and Cersei.
  • Jaime and Cersei.
  • Tyrion when he walked in on Sansa crying.
  • Jon and Ygritte.
  • Davos, Mel, and Stannis (angels on the shoulders anyone?)
  • Davos and Gendry. I hated that he is crossing from Dragonstone to King's Landing in a row boat. Bull fucking shit.
  • Dany and "Mhysa" was so cheesy. Give her a horse so she can ride past as they reach out. That closing shot was hysterical, as in I couldn't help but laugh at it.

Arya's stabbing didn't seem anything near (what I believe this was the "equivalent" of) Crossroads Inn. One of (if not the) best Arya scenes was just butchered. I expected so much emotion from it, but it was completely lacking it because, I think, Arya was silent. I gave it a 2/10 simply because of Tywin, Roose, and Walder Frey (the good parts). I was so disappointed with this episode.

ETA: No UnCat. I was so upset. I even had a thread discussing this very topic, and this was about the only thing I was looking forward to.

This scene, IMO, didnt replace the Crossroads Inn. I think they threw it in to illustrate Aryas badassness (for lack of better word) since they butchered the escape from harrenhal

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