Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ran

[Book Spoilers] EP310 Discussion

Recommended Posts

Loved it, but am disappointed we didn't get the purple wedding. That event would have wrapped up the events at Kings landing nicely.

All season they are talking about the wedding, they showed us the inside of the Sept of Baelor, and they really played up Joffrey's cruelty. The PW would have made so much sense. the Martells would not have been there, but they didn't have much to do or say up to that point anyway, other than the awesome conversation between Oberyn and Tyrion when the Martells arrive. Garland had some nice lines at the wedding that I would have missed, but they were fairly inconsequential. Everything was pretty well set up and the characters were in place for the PW.

Now we have Jaime back in King's Landing prior to the PW, which will feel really weird. I imagine the show writers will find something awesome for him to do. They will probably play up how Jaime's grief over the death of his son. In the books when Jaime learns of Joffrey's death he totally blows it off, thinking to himself: "I have another son, and I can always make more with Cercei." My guess is that the show will change his reaction dramatically. Now that I think of it, getting Jaime to the PW is probably the main reason the show writers delayed that event. I'm fine with it I guess. I have actually like many of the changes in the show better than the book anyway.

The Martells absolutely have to be there for the PW, are you forgetting that Oberyn Martell was one of the judges during Tyrion's verbal trial? Or the fact that Oberyn Martell used his conversation with Tyrion prior to the PW as a means to study the type of person Tyrion was, in order to be able to confirm if he could trust that Tyrion would tell him the truth when he later question him about Elia's murder? Oberyn Martell at the very least has to be at the PW.....

Edited by Jon Icefyre

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well no not necessarily, yes new characters get added but a few character's/storylines are also getting taken away in the near future. The entire Robb Stark king of the North arc is now gone, the Jon/Ygritte storyline will soon be finished,Tywin, Joffrey, and Shae will also be gone soon along with a few others here and there. HBO will find a way to make it work....

True I still think they'll be adding more than taking away, as you say though HBO are the masters at this they'll make it work

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Martells absolutely have to be there for the PW, are you forgetting that Oberyn Martell was one of the judges during Tyrion's verbal trial? Or the fact that Oberyn Martell used his conversation with Tyrion prior to the PW as a means to study the type of person Tyrion was, in order to be able to confirm if he could trust that Tyrion would tell him the truth when he later question him about Elia's murder? Oberyn Martell at the very least has to be at the PW.....

Are you forgetting that the Purple wedding is a different event than Tyrion's trials?

Oberyn Martell certainly has a role to play in Tyrion's trials, but he is in no way instrumental to the wedding and reception. He is barely "present" at the PW. The only mention of Oberyn at the PW is Tyrion sees Ellaria laughing at something funny Oberyn must have said. That's it. The conversation between Oberyn and Tyrion while they were riding back to King's Landing was really great, but they could always take some of that dialogue and include it in their conversations while Tyrion is locked up. Jaime's presence at the PW will have an astronomically bigger effect than Oberyn's absence would have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, this episode played out less like an adaptation and more like fanfiction. Not bad fanfiction, usually, though it got impossibly cheesy with Asha And The Quest For Theon. Roose and Walder are buddies. Tyrion and Sansa are buddies. Shae loves Tyrion. Shae loves Sansa. Shae doesn't love a sack full of diamonds. Varys??? Arya kills the dude who attached Grey Wind's head to Robb's body. Well at least she's killing someone now. Ygritte tracks down Jon Snow. Now we know why she didn't shoot him in the leg in the last episode, because they wanted Jon to be able to give a heartfelt speech first. Gilly names her baby Sam. Samwell is giving lectures to Maester Aemon about the duty of the Night's Watch. Jaime's back in time to catch a wedding.

There were a lot of things I enjoyed about the episode. I liked everything that had to do with Davos. Of course his scenes didn't play out exactly like the book, but the changes were not changes that altered the character or the story, really, and his scene with Gendry and the rowboat was great. I also liked the ending with Daenerys. It felt kind of tacked on in this show, but they really couldn't have put it in last week's episode for obvious reasons. The overall look of the episode was awesome as always.

I was a little disappointed that there was no Black Gate, as I was totally looking forward to seeing that, and I am starting to think there won't be a Coldhands. What I love about Bran's story in the books is that its the one that's permitted to be the most fantastic, in that its chocked full of fantasy elements. I'm beginning to wonder if there will be children of the forest in the TV show.

At any rate, it was a well written and enjoyable episode, but I think that, especially with respect to a few characters, they're straying way too far from the source material, which they've been doing for a while, of course, but which was so much more apparent in this episode. I guess we'll have to wait till next year to see how it all plays out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HUGE disappointment. Really. A few good scenes:

Arya & The Hound - The Coin scene and her face watching the massacre.

Asha/Yara confronting her father and setting sail with 50 BAMFs.

Cersei and Jaime. A part of me wanted them to caress each other and kiss lovingly. Then I remembered the brother-sister part...

Tywin and Tyrion - No #1 Dad Mugs for Tywin.

Other than that - Not much. The final Yunkai scene made me cringe.

If they had axed a few pointless whore scenes in KL this season they might not have had to rush every thread in the end.

Also! If someone has three (!) arrow shafts poking out from his back, might it not have been a good idea to put him down on his stomach? Just a thought.

Edited by Wsaharan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you forgetting that the Purple wedding is a different event than Tyrion's trials?

Oberyn Martell certainly has a role to play in Tyrion's trials, but he is in no way instrumental to the wedding and reception. He is barely "present" at the PW. The only mention of Oberyn at the PW is Tyrion sees Ellaria laughing at something funny Oberyn must have said. That's it. The conversation between Oberyn and Tyrion while they were riding back to King's Landing was really great, but they could always take some of that dialogue and include it in their conversations while Tyrion is locked up. Jaime's presence at the PW will have an astronomically bigger effect than Oberyn's absence would have.

No I'm not but you still don't get it, Oberyn was one of three judges during Tyrion's verbal trial, Tywin's not gonna have someone who wasn't even at the wedding and didn't even see the poisoning take place as a judge, and yet Oberyn being one of those judges directly correlates to him also choosing to ultimately be Tyrion's champion. Not only that but the Martells presence at the wedding is also used as a tool to show the bad blood between the Martells and House Tyrells who have become a huge part of the story as well, or have you forgotten house Tyrell was also one of the big reasons Tyrion was so nervous about Oberyn's arrival to KL? Not to mention the producers probably want to give the audience a decent introduction into Prince Oberyn's character as well as House Martell in general, they're not just gonna throw him into the trail by combat and be done with him.

Also has it ever occurred to you that once the producers make it known to the viewers that haven't read the books, the history of house Martell and Oberyn's desire for Elia's justice and vengeance against the Lannisters, along with his obsession with poisons, that D&D will use him as a red herring suspect for who really could have poisoned Joffrey? So that the viewers are even more caught off guard when it's revealed that Littlefinger and Olenna were the ones actually behind it? Like it or not Oberyn Martell definitely has a role to play in the PW storyline, and obviously the show's producers agree since they decided to wait until next season to have the PW.....

Edited by Jon Icefyre

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...

Tywin saying that only a dozen men were killed at the wedding just shows to me how much they botched the potential of the RW in the show. Things like Frey pie only happen because of how many families lost men at the RW. (Btw, I have a friend whose last name is Frey – and it’s pronounced like “fry.” So in my mind Frey pie is a rhyming phrase and all the better for it IMO. I refuse to pronounce it like “fray” on that principle.)...

Could Tywin have only been considering how many allies were killed - Lannisters, Freys and Bolton?

I <3 your insight on the pronunciation of Frey, which I must admit I have been rhyming with day. Now it leads into a great pun considering Manderley's pies.. .."Would you like Freys with that?" Yes please, and a supersized Coca Cola. :P

Edited by A Man Has Said

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, this episode played out less like an adaptation and more like fanfiction. Not bad fanfiction, usually, though it got impossibly cheesy with Asha And The Quest For Theon. Roose and Walder are buddies. Tyrion and Sansa are buddies. Shae loves Tyrion. Shae loves Sansa. Shae doesn't love a sack full of diamonds. Varys??? Arya kills the dude who attached Grey Wind's head to Robb's body. Well at least she's killing someone now.

There were a lot of things I enjoyed about the episode. I liked everything that had to do with Davos. Of course his scenes didn't play out exactly like the book, but the changes were not changes that altered the character or the story, really, and his scene with Gendry and the rowboat was great.

1. Davos rocked more than just the boat!!!

2. Did not get the sense Roose and Walder are buddies. In fact, more got the sense that Roose was trying to hint that Blackfish will be a future assache and Frey just didn't listen, much like the young wolf didn't.

3. Did not at all get the sense that Tyrion and Sansa are buddies. The story has to get Sansa to this place of completely giving up everything that she was - idealistic, romantic, hopeful - in order to become strong enough to turn it all off. A couple weeks ago she believed Loras was going to be her shining knight, even though he didn't even remember the moment she thought was her proof that he would be - the red rose he gave her at the tourney. Tyrion has been nothing but kind. Even if she never wants him in her bed, she knows he was forced into this marriage too, she knows he's saved her from Joffrey's abuses more than a few times, it's no stretch of the imagination that she might allow herself, and him, a MOMENT to believe that they might be friendly, if nothing else. The moment she realizes her mother and Robb are dead - that is the moment the armor will never come off again.

4. Shae loving Tyrion and Sansa. Here i do agree that D & D are deviating from the source material - BUT - in order to up the tragedy. TVShae has already been made considerably more 'ambitious' than BookShae. She wants to be his lady, she wants to be legitimized ( which IMO is ridiculous, but for the purposes of TV and having a character on for 3 seasons, and making her death tragic, i see why they made that choice), but as such, she needs to want more than gold out of the arrangement and if she loves Sansa, all the more drama...I suspect that Tyrion is going to make some choice in the future that seems to pick Sansa over Shae (again), and that will push Shae over the edge enough for her to betray him in the trial (and with his father)

5. Varys - his stuff with Shae makes perfect sense to me since I also think he was Symon Silver Tongue in the books, so I think his motives on the show are pretty transparent.

6. Arya - In the books, Arya had some names on her early lists that did some truly horrible things, but other names were for relatively menial grievances. For the show to keep everyone rooting for her, and in classic TV/Film fashion, she needed to have a decisive, and more importantly, inarguably sympathetic turning point, and the Red Wedding was it. Same as Sansa . Time to give up the childish fantasies and move onto adult agency. I actually thought this was the perfect moment for the GOT writers to choose. Yay!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got my 'Ripple Effect' thread approved. In it, I (as well as anyone who wishes to contribute) talk about the changes from the books that will have a major effect in the future plot of the show. Feel free to come contribute, or just check it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I admit that I found this episode disappointing and stagnant. When I saw the first scene with Roosey strolling up to the battlements and surveying the burning Stark banners, I thought, "Awwww yiss! This gonna be good!". Then we got Robbwind, which tugged my heart-strings. I was convinced that this finale HAD to be epic and awesome.Then...a scene with Sansa and Tyrion becoming besties? What?!

After that, it was one mediocre scene after another. The one standout was Jon and Ygritte with the worst breakup ever.

Even though I love Dany, the silly imperialist-worshipping crowd-surfing ending was just ridiculous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Something I picked up on re-re-watch : when Yara leaves Pyke, the camera lingers on that tall bearded man who we see quite clearly again on the ship.

Maybe it's nothing but I could see this guy becoming a little side-kick or "three-line-silhouette-character", who knows.

I'm ready to bet we will see more of Rickon through Yara.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not sure how they're going to take a Shae who is apparently in real love with Tyrion and put her in Tywin's bed. Revenge?

I think that's why they made up this Varys/diamonds/Shae talk. She thinks Tyrion sent Varys instead of asking her himself to leave the city, all because she's jealous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also! If someone has three (!) arrow shafts poking out from his back, might it not have been a good idea to put him down on his stomach? Just a thought.

LOL. You noticed too, huh? Yikes!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Overall I think the ending was well done. I, having read the books, was expecting LS to make an appearence at the end. But they made a finale both for readers and non readers, not to mention the amazing acting (for ex Jaime and Cersei, although no talking, their faces said it all); after the massacre, they seek to give hope to everyone:

-The Rat Cook story, and after it cutting to a Wlader Frey and Bolton conversation... it gives a hint of what we can expect of them.

-The counsil meeting, where Tyrion reminds Joff kings are dying quite quickly ultimately.

-Asha and crew on a rescue mision.

-Arya taking a small revenge after watching her wolf headed brother

-Stannis as one hope for the Night Watch

-Jon arriving "safe"

-Mhysa, which IMO was a nice warm scene and will keep people believing she would be the best queen there might ever exist.

I don't like the Sam moments, not even in the books.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The show is only half way through book 3,

things like the King's moot and Sasha in the Eyrie do not happen until Crow's.

Season 4 will finish out SOS and start on Crow's and possible ADWD.

I really hope HBO takes Crow and ADWD and does two seasons but does it in chronological order not book order.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really hope HBO takes Crow and ADWD and does two seasons but does it in chronological order not book order.

There is no way they will do Feast and Dance in published order. They have to be simultaneous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL. You noticed too, huh? Yikes!

As did I. They're like, "This guy is hurt bad! Look at all the arrows in his back. Roll him around so we know if he is someone important."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All things considered, next season really is shaping up to be a blood bath. We might have had two major deaths this year but consider that Season Four will have

1) The death of Ygritte at the Battle of the Wall,

2) The epic poisoning of Joffrey during his wedding feast,

3) The dramatic showdown between Oberyn Martell and The Mountain that results in the death of the former and the half-death of the latter,

4) The strangling of Shae by Tyrion

5) Tyrion shooting a quiver through his lord father's bowels.

That's five major deaths in one season. Definitely shaping up to be the most dramatic season yet. I'm already having GoT withdrawals and it hasn't even been 24 hrs since the finale....

You forgot Lyssa Arryn death which is pretty epic and a shocker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×