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[Book Spoilers] EP310 Discussion

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2 arrows in the back, one in the leg. By next season he can either be completely healed or just limp around a bit. Really not that big of a deal.

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I don't know what to say about Jon getting his eyes almost clawed out one day, and the next he doesn't get 1 arrow, but 3 shot into his body (did one hit his leg?) If all 3 were in his back I suppose he's not going to limp around next season, but just moan a lot? :lol:

How did Jon survive all of this is a mystery, I'm beginning to believe he's the Kurgan reborn.

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Y'all just being negative about Shae...

I mean, I admire the woman. She would die for Sansa, she would give up a big sum of money and the opportunity of living safely somewhere else for Tyrion.. she's so selfless!!

....

Even if Varys was setting Tyrion up, the whole thing is sloppy. First of all, he isn't supposed to know anything about the PW. If they annoyingly leave LF out of it and give all the credits to Varys (to be honest, he's the one with the most contact with the Tyrells, while LF was taking out his batmobile), it still is unnecessary for him to go talk to Shae in advance. I'm sure he could find other persuasive ways to get her to testify against Tyrion.

Maybe Shae really is working for Tywin?? All this unconditional love is unrealistic, D+D must realize that, they're not stupid. If, however, Shae was paid by Tywin (or Cersei, maybe??), it would make sense for her to turn down Varys. They like twists, and I wouldn't mind this one.

Edited by Maria Underfoot

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How did Jon survive all of this is a mystery, I'm beginning to believe he's the Kurgan reborn.

It's not 'how did he survive that', it's 'couldn't they have spread it out better rather than doing that in 2 consecutive episodes' or, 'skip the arrow(s) as he had his bye with Ygritte in the episode before'.

Now they had her teleport over just so she could shoot him. Ridiculous is ridiculous.

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It's not 'how did he survive that', it's 'couldn't they have spread it out better rather than doing that in 2 consecutive episodes' or, 'skip the arrow(s) as he had his bye with Ygritte in the episode before'.

Now they had her teleport over just so she could shoot him. Ridiculous is ridiculous.

It's how did he survive 3 arrows as well to me. Once would have sufficed, I do think they took a it too far and it was a bit far fetched.. They obviously couldn't skip it because they needed a scene of Ygritte eventually turning on Jon, but it should have happened all during episode 9.

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I don't understand where did some people see this. In an interview NCW said something along the lines of Cersei and Jaime both having missed each other and loving each, but things have changed for the while they were away. So the way the show is going to go on about it, is by having them loving each other like in a soap opera, and fall apart for other reasons. Not because Cersei is a manipulative liar and a cheat, like in the books. When she saw him she looked shocked and concerned to me, not like she didn't love him.

I'm not fine with this, honestly I'm not fine with all these departures in characterisation. They're quite annoying.

She runs as fast as a horse, apparently. Or maybe she has a car like Melisandre, who travels across Westeros much faster than other characters.

I did not read the interviews, its just what i took from the acting.It looked that way to me and apparently to others, because the writers changed yet another thing..

To me she looked shocked a bit, then dissapointed.

It's how did he survive 3 arrows as well to me. Once would have sufficed, I do think they took a it too far and it was a bit far fetched.. They obviously couldn't skip it because they needed a scene of Ygritte eventually turning on Jon, but it should have happened all during episode 9.

Yeah also when he got of the horse he clearly broke the arrows in him.If his ribs are broken, the the marrow will enter the blood and theres a high chance his going to die.But hey..MAGIC:D

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It's how did he survive 3 arrows as well to me. Once would have sufficed, I do think they took a it too far and it was a bit far fetched.. They obviously couldn't skip it because they needed a scene of Ygritte eventually turning on Jon, but it should have happened all during episode 9.

My only guess is he was still wearing his boiled leather under-armor, cause those arrows seemed have only not sunk to far , unless Ygritte intended that? Or maybe Wildings don't have armor piercing arrow tips?

Edited by boojam

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Yeah, nothing magical about that gate - as wide and straight as a tunnel on the Pennsylvania Turnpike. :frown5: I think the FX budget was exhausted, is how I explain that one.

Well , even in the books, I always wondered , if the Wildlings have the NW outnumbered by 10 to 1, or is more like 100 to 1?

Why didn't they just flank Castle Black by making an end run around both ends of the wall? Supposed those were even more undermanned that CB?

Of course never understood what the hell Mance's thinking was, even Osha knew that the Wall was not going to stop the Others and their god-knows-how-large army.

Better to Pow Wow with the NW about crossing and helping out , which is what we get after the battle for the wall.

Not as dramatic , I know. More logical tho.

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For those who are upset Stannis smiled/laughed...

Davos had come too far with Stannis to play coy now. “Last year they were Robert’s men. A moon ago they were Renly’s. This morning they are yours. Whose will they be on the morrow?”

And Stannis laughed. A sudden gust, rough and full of scorn. “I told you, Melisandre,” he said to the red woman, “my Onion Knight tells me the truth.”

*****************

“Even an onion smuggler knows two onions from three. You are short a king, my lady.”

Stannis gave a snort of laughter. “He has you there, my lady. Two is not three.”

*********************************

In return for all we’ve given you, grant me the men to fill out the garrisons. Men-at-arms, cross-bowmen,raw boys. I will even take your wounded and infirm.”

Stannis stared at him incredulously, then gave a bark of laughter. “You are bold enough, Snow, I grant you that, but you’re mad if you think my men will take the black.”

*****************************************

/laughs

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(copied from ratings thread)

9/10. I enjoyed it, and they did a very good job at wrapping up S3 arcs and setting the stage for S4.

Favorite scenes:

- RW finale at the Twins, with poor Arya witnessing the barbaric RobbWind desecration (glad they included this, though the head did not look sewn on), and slimy Walder Frey and Roose Bolton gloating. Can't wait for their takedown.

- Arya takes revenge on the jeering Frey soldier! A skillfully deceptive Valar Morghulis scene, masterfully done. No wonder we love Maisie Williams' Arya. I look forward to more Arya/Hound road trip; they're fun to watch. I'm not a Hound fan, but I'm coming around.

- The Nightfort: Rat Cook story tie-in to RW and the dire consequences for violating Guest Right -- smart subtle move by the writers. A bit more hodoring, lol. I loved everything about the meeting of Bran and Sam, with Sam recognizing Summer, Bran and Hodor. Thankfully Sam brought spare dragonglass.

- Jon and Ygritte: Touching broken hearted farewell with bittersweet "You know nothing, Jon Snow." Very well acted; Rose Leslie is terrific. After all the bitching last week, she shot him 3 times!

- Castle Black: Jon and Sam return home, what a relief. Excellent scene with Sam and Maester Aemon, with Sam's "We didn't build 500 miles of ice wall 700 ft. high to keep out men" speech triggering Maester Aemon to sound the alarm throughout Westeros. Best Sam episode ever; he finally found his voice.

- Small council: It's always fun to watch the Lannisters do battle, with (mild) Joffrey smackdowns. I don't want to be anywhere near Tywin, but he is The Man.

- Tyrion with Tywin, Sansa, Cersei. In this brutally dark series, it's a good idea to give show fans someone smart, politically savvy, witty and moderately kind to root for.

- Balon and Asha/Yara Greyjoy debate over the horrific Theon-cock-in-a-box. OMG. I disliked the Asha actress last season (worst casting, along with Shae), but she did a fine job at standing up to worst-father-contender Balon and charging off to rescue her brother. I was a bit surprised that Ramsay flayed the 20 Ironborn at Winterfell, though in retrospect I should have expected it. That's how he rolls, just as Roose trained him.

- Every scene with Davos and/or Shireen is a win; both actors are terrific. And Stannis is headed to the Wall. Finally someone takes the Night's Watch warnings seriously.

OK:

- Dany and Mhysa was anti-climactic but an upbeat closing note after the tragedy of the RW. We see Dany seduced by adulation and overconfident following two easy wins including never-been-conquered Yunkai. Dragon closeups are always a thrill.

- Reek is born and Ramsay Snow is finally revealed. It's about time. I hope this story arc will be deemphasized in S4. After all that buildup, the reveal could have been clearer; my smart unsullied friends were still confused.

- Short changed: Sansa grieving the RW, Jaime's inconclusive reunion with Cersei.

- Not sure where they're going with Shea and Varys, but I'm sure D&D are laying the groundwork.

Season 4:

Lady Stoneheart would have been a fantastic shocking cliffhanger to end S3 for book readers, but I don't think they had time to do it justice. I expect it early in S4. I also have high hopes for Coldhands.

I'm already suffering from GoT withdrawal. I want more, and I want it NOW. Bring on the PW!

Edited by SummerSong

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I liked this episode, though there were definitly highs and lows.

My favorites in 3e10 were the Arya & Hound scenes because they condensed her getting darker slowly into that breaking point when she sees Robbs mutilated body. Priceless remark of the hound after she butchered the Frey-soldier: "Next time you're going to do something like that, tell me first."

I liked the Jon & Ygritte scenes too (3e09 and 3e10). Rose Leslies performance was excellent. Both scenes had suttle actions that said a lot. In 3e09 Ygritte was ready to stand with Jon aginst the other wildlings. She aims her bow at them, but Jon pushes her down. My opinion is it's implied that he wants to keep her from making her own people an enemy of hers. In 3e10 Ygritte obviously left the group and went after Jon, but Jon chooses the watch. Ygritte though still can't let go of him. Even though it is established by now that Ygritte is a good shot with her bow she manages to hit him 3 times without killing him. I'd say it's implied here that that was her, intentionally hurting him badly, without killing him ( The wrath of a wildling-woman ;-) ). That's how I saw this.

Speculation: I think Ygritte might be the first character who lives longer than in the books. Her death in the books was very arbitrary to me and I thought that there would have been much potential for more interesting material if she'd have bothered Jon a little longer.

Jeoffrey was again brilliantly performed once more. I'm so much looking forward to the next wedding ;)

Davos was very good too, only the last one in the council room felt a little off to me, but more because of the behavior of Stannis. In the books it felt more like Stannis was the rational to harschness character who knew exactly what he wanted and used Melisandre as a tool to get it. In GOT Stannis, especially in this scene, often seems indecisive and a marionette of Melisandre. I think book-Stannis is the more believable character.

The weakest one was Theons. His breakdown to agreeing to be calling himself reek seemed off. Either the initial resistance was to much or the breakdown to fast, concidering, that those 3 blows were "harmless" and "unimanginative" compared to what Theon had to endure from Ramsay before that. I would've split that in two scenes, having a broken and very messed up Theon in the second scene, leaving the terrible things that happened to the viewers fantasy. The idea of showing the birth of Reek onscreen was a nice one though.

As a lot of people I also thought they would end on the resurrection of the halfrotten body of CS. Would have been the bigger shocker at the end, but I guess the timing would not be right.

Found the interviews with Michelle Fairley interesting ^^ Boldly lying very perfect all the time I waited for a slip up. Never happened, but she told in one interview that she had a dinner with only Weiss and Benioff before she left Ireland after the Red Wedding shoot. I think I know at least one topic there... :)

Edited by anaron

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They probably start S4 with cat getting dragged out by Nymeria and end the episode with her resurrection which in my opinion would be better than cat immediately being found bearing in mind she was in the river for about 2-3 weeks (probably wrong it's been a while). I think it will have more effect that way anyway as the unsullied will have accepted cats fate by that point and may not even be thinking about her so it will be a shock.

My thought exactly. I think they will begin S4 with a shot of Cat's corpse bobbing just under the surface of the water and Arya, through Nymeria, discovering her.

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For all the things wrong with the end scene of Danny, I found the crowd surfing to be the most hilarious. It's hard to believe that during editing, or some time in the course of building the episode someone didn't say....Wow this is ridiculous.

The episode starts with the awesome shot of RobbWind, then ends on a note you would expect from a Disney movie from 1952.

Honestly, I chuckle whenever I think about that dazed look on her face as she is surfing around the crowd. Someone HAS to dress like her and do that at SXSW this year.

Edited by TheDarkOne

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Just some thoughts.

1.) i remember reading that this season would have a battle that put the blackwater to shame, and that D&D were looking for a larger budget to fund it. I guess that never happened then? the Red wedding while awesome was hardly a "battle" it was just a few jump cuts of individuals getting killed, nothing near the scope of the blackwater

2.)did that guy release the transcript of Talisa's letter?

3.) Maisie absolutely killed it. Her hand shaking while holding the coin after doing the deed, just incredible. how she went from anger, to "please sir im cold and hungry" face, to Murderous rage. Just incredible. Although i would have liked a "A Wolf enjoys the taste of frey" or something along those lines after she said "But im hungry, i have money!"

I will say that this season felt shorter than the others, and i think there is a very real chance that the show passes the books.

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So the opening scene of the season was very disappointing since they completely skipped the battle of the fist and now the closing scene where Dany goes crowd surfing was terrible.

Nowhere near as good as Season 1 or 2 and I think its down to all the unnecessary changes they keep making.

Edited by aFeastForDragons

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Can't read all the posts on here even if I had the time!

Anybody else note we will have Rose Leslie back , for a while?, for good next year?

I couldn't figure this one out. I sort of figured the assault on the CB would be this year.

But then I knew there were Wildings who were driven off , so maybe so maybe not for Ygritte.

So makes me wonder will the attack on Castle Black will come off in S4 or not?

Because the big scene next year would seem to have to be the Battle for the Wall, so maybe that's where Ygritte bites the biscuit. Maybe not.

I have noticed that D and D , due to budget I suppose, if they have one super set piece they don't like to have another.

To wit Blackwater.

Tho one could say Dracarys and RW comprise a double zinger this season.

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Can't read all the posts on here even if I had the time!

Anybody else note we will have Rose Leslie back , for a while?, for good next year?

I couldn't figure this one out. I sort of figured the assault on the CB would be this year.

But then I knew there were Wildings who were driven off , so maybe so maybe not for Ygritte.

So makes me wonder will the attack on Castle Black will come off in S4 or not?

Because the big scene next year would seem to have to be the Battle for the Wall, so maybe that's where Ygritte bites the biscuit. Maybe not.

Awesome. Rose is one of my favorite actors in the entire series. in another thread I hazzarded a theory that:

I have this odd feeling that Ygritte will be around for a long time. I'm thinking that the story line, as has happened elsewhere in the show, will morph. Ygritte will slide into Val's character arc (and the Mance's kid story line will be jettisoned or re-imagined). Ygritte is, I think, a big fan fav. And while we book readers will feel a huge and important story arc is being cut, in the end, in order to move things along, It won't be the first time the story was altered accompanying the wailing and lamentations of the board.

I could see Mance's son still being written in and Val being written off as a casualty of the battle or something. Ygritte survives to heckle Jon into saving the kid, acting as his outward conscience.

Or has Val already been cast? I'm not up on casting news.

So maybe that's not such a wacky theory...?

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I absolutely adore both Ygritte and Rose Leslie (and I actually didn't much like her at first! but my god she's grown on me) and I hope that doesn't happen. Ygritte's death is such a powerful moment, and a huge thing for Jon's character. The exclusion of it would be pretty disappointing to me, personally.

Not to mention the presence of Ygritte could change things, though admittedly in ways that would be easy to write around - didn't Jon think that he would have possibly taken Stannis' offer of Winterfell and Val as a wife if it had been Ygritte instead?

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1.) i remember reading that this season would have a battle that put the blackwater to shame, and that D&D were looking for a larger budget to fund it. I guess that never happened then? the Red wedding while awesome was hardly a "battle" it was just a few jump cuts of individuals getting killed, nothing near the scope of the blackwater

No, D&D said that about a battle in S4.

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